1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
Got my new standard regulator today. Amazingly stamped on the bottom is MADE IN USA. Says it on the box too and it's not a vintage NOS piece.
Alt gauge going to the extreme right suddenly when accelerating.
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1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
Haven't had a chance to test it yet with work and all. Got the regulator today. Yes rebuilt parts aren't as good as they once were. They are charging 88 dollars and a 100 dollar core now for a rebuilt one,but it has a lifetime warranty so they will keep swapping it out if it fails..at least that's something
1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
So if this new regulator doesn't solve the issue,the alternator would be the next in line? What i don't get is why it was fine all this time.drove it to work. Went to go home then it's doing it starts doing it. At idle the gauge is dead center. Touch the accelerator and it climbed near the end line and stays there until you left off the gas. Then it returns to dead center
You need to get into the shop manual and measure alternator field current draw. There is a procedure, not hard. Those regulators may well not be able to handle the current. This also depends on if you somehow got a real big alternator, like 55A or larger.
MDchanic
Connoisseur d'Junque
Also, maybe, just for kicks, output voltage.
All we know at this point is BIG, which is not very objective.
– Eric
1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
I've owned the car for about 2 years. Driven it around had the 7 1/4" rear go bad,replaced it with 8 3/4" and started driving it again leaking steering box and all. The alt meter would always rise when it accelerated,but within the normal operation parameters on the meter. It just started doing this on the way home that day.
Don't no it's the alternator is the original one to the car not. Most of the parts on it were since it only had 90,000 miles. Maybe as you said the alternator is going bad I don't know. I'm going to put the other regulator on and see if that changes anyrhing.
1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
Yes I will do that. Is it common for these alternators to fail and start putting out a ton of voltage and overwhelm the regulator? My finned mopars have generators. Never had this issue before
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
I agree with both points made this evening.
The ammeter is showing us current flowing to the battery.
We are assuming this is due to the regulator going full field and the voltage increasing with rpm.
Eric's point is a good one. It would be best to hook up a hand held multimeter and check the voltage at idle and then with increasing rpm.
Leave the hood open put the meter on the cowl or where you can see it, and run the leads to the battery.
Then you can observe he readings from both the ammter and voltage at the battery off, start, running.
Then depending on what is observed, you could do a quick check of the voltage at the regulator input (blue wire, IGN terminal). It should be about the same voltage as the battery when the engine is running.
The ammeter is showing us current flowing to the battery.
We are assuming this is due to the regulator going full field and the voltage increasing with rpm.
Eric's point is a good one. It would be best to hook up a hand held multimeter and check the voltage at idle and then with increasing rpm.
Leave the hood open put the meter on the cowl or where you can see it, and run the leads to the battery.
Then you can observe he readings from both the ammter and voltage at the battery off, start, running.
Then depending on what is observed, you could do a quick check of the voltage at the regulator input (blue wire, IGN terminal). It should be about the same voltage as the battery when the engine is running.
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Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
In my experience the most common failure with the alternators themselves has been to loose one winding or one diode. The the alternator makes less power at all rpms, but is most noticible at idle. At idle the battery is discharging to keep things running, then with increasing rpm there is enough power to run the car and recharge the battery.
The next most common problem is the replacement alternators themselves. The rebuilders often mixed and matched parts. At least in the old days some shops only replaced parts that tested bad. Now, most shops just buy replacement one size fits most parts and throw them in. There still are a few places that will rewind a rotor, but that's a rarity. Anyway the result is we end up buying alternators that draw 6 or 8 amps through a circuit that was designed for 3 amps. One of those items in the circuit is the regulator.
Then there are the problems that aren't the alternator or regulator. Over 50 years of outdoor exposure and occassional abuse result in resistance in the circuits - especially at the connectors. The resistance causes the regulator to see low voltage, so it provides more power to increase the system voltage.
OR what would it do differently from an NOS American made regulator. Say, NAPA Echlin, real American made Standard ignition or even NOS factory Chrysler? I have an NOS NAPA regulator on mine that's been there since 2019. I don't even think about it. Now watch it burn to the ground tomorrow.
The ONLY way that could happen is if, on an isolated field alternator, the green terminal end of the rotor grounds internally. But on a 69/ earlier set up, the regulator is supposed to be controlling field current, so the only way it can get field current is if the regulator is supplying or an internal problem is causing the regulator to feed "full field" current. I'm sure this can happen--the pass transistor for the field is shorted
Otherwise, They are controlled by field current, which is controlled by the regulator. On a 70/ later alternator, isolated field, incorrectly called "dual field," sometimes a brush holder can fail the insulation and ground. This must be the one for the green. That will ground the green, it will draw full field current and be out of control. If the terminal for the blue wire fails, you will burn up some wiring
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Hmmm. I've found a source of cheap Chinese voltage regulators which may be the same outer shell they're using. I could gut these and substitute my own electronics. Not quite how I had planned to run production and might have some scaling issues, but it's an option.
There are some other options I could use such as the 3d printed lid. It looks like I can get a case of picking two of three:
US made mechanical parts
Cosmetics to resemble the stock regulator
Low cost
Regardless, these would use a US made PCB with circuit assembly in the US.
The 1970 and later regulator went with completely ignoring a factory appearance. Part of that was deliberately to show it's a new design around modern components.
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FBO's unit is not adjustable; the design I'm working on is. Also, instead of using a conventional fiberglass circuit board, I'm having the circuit printed directly on an aluminum heat sink.
Also, I'm not sure where FBO is making their regulator, but these circuit boards will be run at a local contract manufacturer certified for aerospace and medical electronics.
1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
Replaced the regulator, seems to discharge more at idle and shoot over to the right light the other one at light throttle. Difference is now that the headlights flicker when accelerating the ammeter needle flickers back and further when it goes toward the right. Here's a photo of where it's going
MDchanic
Connoisseur d'Junque
1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
Nope,there's this thing called work that I have to get up and do at 6am this morning so that means getting up at 5am. So no,I didn't screw around with it further last night.dig out my mulitmeter,etc. It will have to wait until Sunday. The fun never ends.
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MDchanic
Connoisseur d'Junque
I'm not going to analyze your work schedule, but I get up at 5:00 for work, too, and I leave before 7, and I'm back after 9, and I'm over 60, so I usually don't get anything done on work days either, though I will sometimes pop down to the barn just before or after work if I've suddenly thought of something I need to do.
I will say that there are different ways of doing things and looking at things, and I'm in no position to dictate which one is better (because I have plenty of my own idiosyncrasies), and I certainly don't know the actual things you need to do in your life, and the things that make working on your cars harder or easier (in my case, the barn is 500' from the house, so I can't wander back and forth between the house and barn while eating a sandwich).
Were I in this same situation, I would be prioritizing collecting a very small amount of data over just slapping the parts in. It takes five minutes to install a new regulator (15 including time to look for the tools
). It takes another three to put the voltmeter on the battery, start the car, let it run enough to put some charge back in the battery, and then watch the meter as I rev it to 500, 1,000, 1,500, 2,000, 2,500, and 3,000 RPM, which I would never not do after changing a regulator like this, even if I were in a hurry, because I would want some reassurance that I had fixed the problem, and could safely drive the car for further checking, even if not right at this moment.
Certainly, it's your car, your house, your job, and your life, and you can do anything you'd like, but you asked a bunch of random people on the internet for advice on solving your charging problem, and what we are saying is part of the advice you asked us for.
You can take it or leave it, but here it is.
– Eric
edit: $10 Amazon/eBay Xi-Jing-Peng-Special cigarette-lighter voltmeter works fine in a pinch, too.
I will say that there are different ways of doing things and looking at things, and I'm in no position to dictate which one is better (because I have plenty of my own idiosyncrasies), and I certainly don't know the actual things you need to do in your life, and the things that make working on your cars harder or easier (in my case, the barn is 500' from the house, so I can't wander back and forth between the house and barn while eating a sandwich).
Were I in this same situation, I would be prioritizing collecting a very small amount of data over just slapping the parts in. It takes five minutes to install a new regulator (15 including time to look for the tools
). It takes another three to put the voltmeter on the battery, start the car, let it run enough to put some charge back in the battery, and then watch the meter as I rev it to 500, 1,000, 1,500, 2,000, 2,500, and 3,000 RPM, which I would never not do after changing a regulator like this, even if I were in a hurry, because I would want some reassurance that I had fixed the problem, and could safely drive the car for further checking, even if not right at this moment. Certainly, it's your car, your house, your job, and your life, and you can do anything you'd like, but you asked a bunch of random people on the internet for advice on solving your charging problem, and what we are saying is part of the advice you asked us for.
You can take it or leave it, but here it is.
– Eric
edit: $10 Amazon/eBay Xi-Jing-Peng-Special cigarette-lighter voltmeter works fine in a pinch, too.
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Road Grabber
Well-Known Member
I would play it safe and check all your connections at the bulkhead, steering column and alternator gauge just to make sure that there is no corrosion causing resistance. A loose connection at the gauge has caused many wire harnesses to fry.
I’ve had a bad fusible link connection do this too.
May not be related but just the same worth the time. Resistance will cause huge amp draws on demand.
If you have a local alternator/starter outfit nearby they may be of help.
Good luck
I’ve had a bad fusible link connection do this too.
May not be related but just the same worth the time. Resistance will cause huge amp draws on demand.
If you have a local alternator/starter outfit nearby they may be of help.
Good luck
That is not true as stated, but unwanted resistance in a circuit and at higher amperage demand certainly DOES cause HEAT and accelerates failure, whether terminal mates, crimps, wire insulation, etc.
1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
I havent been able to locate my fluke meter to test the voltage. Searched all over yesterday. Anyway,I had started the car up on Monday and backed it out,put it back in the garage. Today 6 days later the battery is completely dead. Either the battery was destoryed in the minute or so it was driv8ng before I could pull the alt wire,or it's magically developed a power drain somewhere. nothing has been modified or altered recently. Car is 100 per cent stock. The only thing I can think of is that sometimes I've noticed that when I start the car and drive away the turn signal will work when I use them but sometimes the little green arrows on the cluster won't light. But if I turn the switch off and on again they work. Could a bad or intermittently bad ignition switch cause all these problems including the amp gauge reading high? If so I can try replacing that first and see what happens
Going to search for my meter more today. If I can't find it I'll have to buy a Harbor Freight cheapie. The fluke one was expensive.
Going to search for my meter more today. If I can't find it I'll have to buy a Harbor Freight cheapie. The fluke one was expensive.
1968 Dart 270
Well-Known Member
Yep,connections are clean and on tight. The battery has never given me a problem before. I changed the regulator 6 days ago. Ran the car for a minute to test it. Backed it out to do that,then drove it back in. Either there's got a be a voltage drain or the battery was damaged. Guess im going to have to pick up a cheapie meter after I charge the battery and get it running
MDchanic
Connoisseur d'Junque
Once you get that meter, you'll want to check for a leak with everything in the car switched off.
Modern cars will always draw 100 to 500 mA for computers, radio door locks, alarm systems, stereo presets, etc.
Old cars should draw Zero with everything off.
– Eric
Modern cars will always draw 100 to 500 mA for computers, radio door locks, alarm systems, stereo presets, etc.
Old cars should draw Zero with everything off.
– Eric
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