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hemicop

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Two weeks ago I went to pick up up a car from a FABO member (GTXperience) in Northern California. After seeing the car on the site & talking to him several times I figured the car was worthwhile so I sent him five hundred $s of the twelve hundred dollars he wanted for the car. After travelling from Az. to his location (at considerable expense) I inspected the car closely & found it wasn't what I was looking for in terms of condition. I told him so & said I'd pass on the car & that I realized he didn't have to return my deposit/downpayment but I hoped he realized what occurred & would be fair about it. He replied that he'd "think about it", that it didn't really matter as he had other people that'd buy it and it really wasn't his car anyway:angry6:. Now he didn't seem angry or upset through this whole ordeal and I figured he was a reasonable guy that would do the fair thing and at least return some of my money ( which I told him I thought was fair, too) and that I'd hear from him after Spring Fling.
Well, after several E-mails I haven't even received so much as an acknowledgemnt from him! Just goes to show not everyone here is as fair or upstanding as they appear.
 
He's kind of got you by the nuts here. If the car is not quite as advertised, the right thing to do would be a full refund. I always refund, unless the buyer has screwed me out of a legitamit sale with someone else.
 
wow i met the guy bought some rims from him and he was all but the coolest fellow im very suprised to here that he would not refund you a dept. i think there must be a way to talk to him just find it hard to belive i would also say i dont think hes hurting for money either something is nnot ading up right here besides my rotten spelling slash grammer:happy10:
 
Is there an assertion the car was materially misrepresented or that it wasn't up to what you wanted to tackle after having pics sent for review and then agreeing to purchase.

Big difference.

Just asking.
 
Ive never bought anything from gtx before but have talked to him on a few occasions and he seems like a really nice guy. I'd really like to hear his story. No offense hemicop im not trying to make it sound like your the bad guy by any means so i hope its not sounding like that, I would just like to hear what he has to say seems like if everything you said is agreed on by him he should give back some of the money. So whats up gtx? Justin
 
Haven't dealt with either of you fellers so i won't be taking sides due to the lack if informtion but the way i try and do sales on parts or cars is like this. A guy called the other day looking for a tranny for the church van. The tranny shop in town sent him to me being the only real mopar ***** in town. He paid me for the tranny (used) and i told him if it didn't work bring it back and get his money. I knew it was running when i pulled it. He did come back looking for a TC which i gave him one. Done deal. When selling a car i will represent it as closely as i am able and will not accept any holding money unless they insist then i will point out any flaws in the car to determine how well they had covered the pictures that i had sent. I do ask them if they got an ok from the wife to spend her money and then and only then it is understood that they are buying the car when they send me a deposit. After one sends a down it is too late to decide if one has the knowledge or ability to tackle a restoration.
Now my questions. Did you see pics of the car and if so did you ask for any more detailed pictures? Keep in mind you were not dealing with the owner. I don't do that. Talk to the owner. Like i said . I've talked to both of you on this site and consider both of you to be stand up guys so i will be anxiously watching this topic. Treat each other like Mopar guys.
 
Oh yes, be assured that I will be replying to this as soon as I finish a project for work tonight. I need to finish it first before spending/wasting more time on this transaction. I think it will be enlightening.

UPDATE: 5/20/08 12:50AM: I just finished my project and printed out all of my correspondence w/Hemicop. I will be summing all of this up later today after re-reading all of it.
 
i am one to vouch for gtx in that if he says a car is in a certain condition, i believe him. lets see if more of the story unfolds.
 
I happen to know two people that were told the car was sold during the deposit period because I sent them GTX's way. I believe both asked to be notified if the sale fell through, but, bought other cars since then. Maybe those folks were the ones mentioned as potential purchasers. Since they bought other cars, they were definitely bonafide players/purchasers.

Heck, I was interested too, but, grabbed something else closer to me.
 
Ive never bought anything from gtx before but have talked to him on a few occasions and he seems like a really nice guy. I'd really like to hear his story. No offense hemicop im not trying to make it sound like your the bad guy by any means so i hope its not sounding like that, I would just like to hear what he has to say seems like if everything you said is agreed on by him he should give back some of the money. So whats up gtx? Justin

me too, just from different questions and thread through the site, GTX has been a really nice helpful guy, not just to me but to alot of others too. i think there must be more to this story.
 
me too, just from different questions and thread through the site, GTX has been a really nice helpful guy, not just to me but to alot of others too. i think there must be more to this story.

i'll wait for gtx to open this up more, but you're right..........there IS more to this story.
 
From a nice guy standpoint: I wouldn't ever sell a car to make money off of deposits, and from the sounds of things, this GTX fellow is a nice guy. It's most likely a big misunderstanding.
 
No doubt, to many I'm sure he's a nice guy & seemed that way to me, but with not even a acknowledgement (until now) of my existence after our meeting, it makes me, ahhhh, suspicious?
 
From a nice guy standpoint: I wouldn't ever sell a car to make money off of deposits, and from the sounds of things, this GTX fellow is a nice guy. It's most likely a big misunderstanding.

This was my exact thoughts on this too!! Hope you guys can get this worked out without too much mud slinging, keep the Mopar brotherly love going8)
 
NOTE: Get a drink because this is going to be a long read:

Back in March, Hemicop contacted me re: the Dart. Note: All of the following exchanges are PMs through FABO (if anyone that has access wants to look through them). The only ones that are direct emails are to his body/paint guy). He was one of several people I was exchanging emails with re: it. Hemicop sent several emails asking about it's condition and and what parts came with it, etc. He also asked for me to email his body/paint (from here on out will be referred to as B/P) guy to send him the pictures. He said he defers to him since he does all of his work. On 3/31, I emailed his B/P guy, introduced myself and told him that Hemicop asked me to contact him re: additional pics. On 4/1, I send him all of the pics he requested. Since I didn't hear back, on 4/3, I email the B/P guy and ask him if there are any other pics he needs. The same day (4/3), he replies back and says, "Thank you thats all I need." Also, on 4/1, I PM'd Hemicop letting him know that I contacted his B/P guy and sent all of the images he requested.

Now prior to this, Hemicop is all ready trying to figure out transportation (either directly to him or to Spring Fling). In order to help, I peruse Mopart's Transport Service section and contact several people about either transporting the Dart to AZ or to Spring Fling. I get ahold of one person that is transporting several exhaust systems for Accurate LTD down to Spring FLing and has an open trailer down. I forgot the exact price but we worked out something in the "$250 range" to transport the car. This guy was just looking for a little fuel relief while driving down there. Anyway, I pass his name and number onto Hemicop. He wanted Hemicop's contact number but I told Hemicop that I didn't want to give out his contact information until I spoke with him about it. I PM'd Hemicop a few times early on asking if he called this guy willing to transport the Dart. I called the transporter after I knew Hemicop was planning on coming up himself to make sure he wasn't waiting on us. He said that he did not hear from him but would now try and get ahold of some others that had contacted him - which he was holding off on because he thought the Dart transport might happen.

On or about 4/3, I receive a PM from Hemicop saying, "I'm figuring on just driving up to you if I can get someone to come along, otherwise I'll see about it getting shipped. When is Spring Fling, anyway? This Saturday isscrewed up for me so I couldn't leave 'til next week anyway."

On 4/4, I reply to his email (before the transaction continues) and wrote:

"Hi xxxx,

If I haven't given you the history on the car, let me do so now. I bought the Dart and a nice rebuilt 360 from a gentleman who had another Dart that was nearing completion and didn't want to go through with this project. I ended up using the 360 in another car of mine and since I am building two other motors for two of my other cars, I decided to part with the Dart. It was disassembled when I received it and I only asked about a few trim pieces that I did not see right off the bat: the fender tip moulding/indicators and the rocker moulding. They were supposedly gone when he got the car. There is quite a bit of the other moulding inside the car. ..."

I have no clue where he gets the "it really wasn't his car anyway" bit (especially after I PM him the history of the car and tell him that I bought it). One would think that an adult would get their facts straight but I know that embellishment and using only specific facts to prove a position is fairly common place and human nature.

Anyway, again on 4/4, I PM him and ask,"Are there any other questions I can answer for you?" to which he replies (on 4/5), "I think you pretty much answered them all. I'm going to call a friend today to see if he can ride up there with me. If not, I'll call the guy to see about getting it at spring Fling. I'll call you today to arrange payment......." The transporting issue kept changing but I am glad I told the other guy to look for another possible load so he wasn't stuck without one.

I also sent a followup PM asking if he could send the deposit with delivery confirmation or some sort of tracking and if he could send me a quick PM letting me know it was sent. On 4/7, I get a PM stating that the $500 deposit was on its way and that he would send me the tracking number later in the afternoon. Now, four days later (4/11), I PM him and ask for the tracking/delivery confirmation number. The same day, I hear back, "I sent it via Priority Mail and they told me there's no tracking number on it." I was getting a little nervous because 4 days had passed since it was sent and it hadn't arrived and there was no tracking number but it was sent Priority. The upshot: It arrived on the 14th and did have a delivery confirmation sticker on it.
 
Until the deposit arrived, I still let people see it but told them that I was expecting said deposit and more than likely, the vehicle would not be available. I had two parties that week offer either a deposit or the full asking price with another (the following week) also willing to purchase the Dart. Of course, I held off, because I thought this was a done deal.

I had the Dart in storage (in an attempt to keep the peace with a few neighbors). I only have room for one car in front of the house and that space was taken. Dates to pick up the Dart kept changing. The initial weekend pickup was postponed and blew some plans the family had to get away. Then I was told of a re-tiling job in Hemicop's house that was going beyond schedule which would postpone it once again. Then, there was a family medical emergency in NY (which I hope resolved favorably) but resulted in another rescheduled date a week later.

Because I gave my move out date to the storage facility, I had to take the car out or re-up the contract for another month. Although I knew the neighbors wouldn't be very happy with it, I told Hemicop that I could keep it outside on the street (on the trailer) for a few more days when he asked. Well, the pickup date was pushed back again and there were some discussions with the neighbors. I could have just set it up in storage again until he was ready to pick it up and pass on the storage bill to him but I was trying to be accommodating.

BTW: All of this is going on while I am working, dealing with the family and trying to get my own tow vehicle (new air bags, brakes), trailer (new deck, brakes, tires) and Cuda (water pump, trans service) ready for Spring Fling. I was absolutely sweating it because the Dart was supposed to be picked up all ready so I could focus on everything else. I had to unload and load that car several times (by hand) to get work done on the trailer and it was truly a PITA.

So, the latest scheduled pickup date was Wednesday (4/30) and two days before we were supposed to meet a Pacific Coast caravan on Friday morning (5/2) @ 9am to head down to Spring Fling. I take the day off from work to make sure that everything is good to go. I have asked Hemicop to call me when he's about an hour out. I patiently wait and mid-day I start calling him but there is a problem with his phone service. I give up calling at around 4pm. Approx. a half hour later, he calls and says they are in Fresno and that he miscalculated the driving time. He says he could be here by around 10pm but again, trying to be decent, I tell him that it would probably be better if he saw it in the daylight and also, it might be better to get a room and hunker down for the night with plans to meet at 10am the next day. One other disappointing aspect is the fact on Wednesdays I am involved with a program for at-risk youths as a mentor/tutor. For the past several years, I have only missed one session due to being ill. It's something I am very passionate about and don't mind going into work early on those days and going back to work later after the session is over. Needless to say, I wasn't happy with how the day turned out.

So, I call into work and left a message that I wouldn't be in at least the first half of Thursday. Well, as fate has it, I was needed that morning so instead of disconnecting the trailer from the day before, I haul everything to work some 25 miles away with a rig that gets about 10mpg with a loaded trailer (so $20 in gas for this one of many jaunts - in case anyone is keeping score). When Hemicop called that morning, I was on my way back up the freeway to meet him. As planned for Wednesday's meet-up, I told him that it would probably be better to meet at a large shopping center near the house so it would be easier to transfer the Dart from one trailer to another and gave him directions. After getting to the shopping center, I got the call that he was at a different shopping center on the not-so-nice side of town and proceeded over there.
 
I arrived and he and a friend began looking over the Dart. He then wanted to call the B/P guy again and spent awhile on the phone while looking at the car. All of the parts that were taken off the car were in the trunk area and as they were trying to look in there, I asked if they would like the parts taken out so they could get in here easier. He did so, so I pulled everything out and laid it on their trailer. There was some grumbling about the rust (no holes or cracks just some scale) in the spare tire well. This was shown in the pictures that were sent and I even offered up an immaculate well out of the '68 Dart for free if they wanted it. There was no reply to that offer. After more time passes and several walks away from me to discuss it, I say that I am not going to be offended if you call out any issues in front of me. Hemicop then approaches me and says that he thinks he is going to pass. I absolutely shut down - thinking about all of the time I have wasted and other buyers I have turned away after Hemicop committed to buying the car. I immediately start to load the parts up in the car and clam up. Of course, Hemicop is talking about his deposit and I am frickin' livid! A deposit is not a place holder so the vehicle can be secured until you decide to look at it several weeks later, unless this was agreed upon beforehand. This was not the case! You know, I am still working to support a family. I am not a retired civil servant like Hemicop and do not have all the time in the world to deal with someone else's timeframe and decisions.

When Hemicop stated that "he didn't seem angry or upset through this whole ordeal ...", he couldn't be more wrong. Because I didn't display my anger in a yelling, foot-stomping rage, that doesn't support your claim that I wasn't angry. In this situation, I went right to repacking the car and stopped talking because I was very upset. Honestly, I didn't want to spend any more time on this transaction and was infuriated and wanted to get out of there, drop off the trailer and get back to work.

As for the "I'll think about it" line you mentioned. Please don't use the tactic of suggesting something, translating it yourself and then believing it came out of someone else's mouth. Example: "So, you're going to contact me after Spring Fling?" (in your mind) translates into "I'll contact you after Spring Fling" or "Give it some thought" (again, in your mind) translates into "He'd think about it." An old tactic I have seen before. I do remember you saying something about not wanting to split hairs and at this point, I am not even going to give that anymore thought.

So, after that, I had to figure out what to do and just was completely drained. I didn't have time to get the Cuda ready for the show and wanted to take down the GTX but I just didn't have it in me to unload the Dart once again. It was too late to cancel our plans for the show, so I parked the trailer and Dart back in front of the house from Friday to Monday and just planned on dealing with the neighbors later. On Monday, after getting back from Spring Fling, I took the Dart back to storage which I am paying on it once again. I had to take took time off from work again to do so. Storage in the SF Bay Area is pricey to the tune of $280/mo for a 10x20 enclosed.

I am at a point where I am upside down on the Dart. Yes, I want it gone but I am not going to part it. (Sidenote: I have been into Mopars for awhile (almost 30 years) and the '68 Dart which I decided to part is the first one I have ever parted for myself and I have actually been feeling guilty doing so. But at this stage, I am considering it my Buffalo. I am trying to use every bit from it as not to waste anything.)

Final Thought: Hemicop, you wasted a lot of my time and altered my plans with my family for several weeks. You cost me the sale of the Dart to other interested parties and I am still accruing fees on it as I type. I am still trying to sell it and was contemplating the possibility of sending something back if I had to sell it for less. At this point, after adding up my (and my family's) time, lost wages, fuel and storage fees ... I believe that the costs incurred exceed the $500 deposit. Hemicop acknowleges in his original post, that I do not have to return his deposit due to his breach. However, once the car is sold and transferred, I will reevaluate whether or not the return of any portion of the deposit is warranted.

The Dart is still here if you want it. Although I am incurring additional expenses and you had breached our contract, I am still willing to sell you the car for the original agreed upon price of $1200 by May 31, 2008. It's your call.

To the other FABO members, I am sorry for this being hashed out here but when someone pulls you into a public forum (and one that is of importance to you), you have to respond in a timely and factual fashion (although my objectiveness seems to have been mixed up with some subjective feelings).
 
I don't think you need to appologize there GTXexperiance, kinda feel bad for you with what you've gone through, on the otherside maybe Hemicop doesn't really realize the impact of how the busted sale effected you time money and otherwise. Pretty fair of you to say you'll re-evaluate the deposit refund upon sale of the car. I think many here found it hard to believe a high poster such as you're self would just ignore this like Hemicop thought you were, probably took sometime to figure out how to approach this reply on the public forum. Maybe once your car sells you guys can work out a compromise on how much should be refunded(even though you legitimatly don't have to give any back) Good luck to both of you on sorting this out, hopefully you can do it over PMs so as to not to get to messy for the Mods to sort out. I think you have provided a good statement of where you'r e coming from there GTX. In all fairness if you keep the whole $500 deposit I really don't think anyone here with any common sense will think badly of you......after all we all know what a deposit is about.
 
This should have never been a thread..............



By the way we are talking about a $500/dep and $1200/car......what kind of shape was it expected to be in??
 
I sent him five hundred $s of the twelve hundred dollars he wanted for the car.

Sounds like a meeting of the minds and a valid contrat

After travelling from Az. to his location (at considerable expense)

There are lots of way you could have had the car inspected prior to incurring in your words "considerable expense" A plane flight out, a local member. How is this in any way GTX's fault that you incurred the expense. It's part of the cost of buying these old cars. It's also unreasonable to expect, or in this case, "guilt', a seller to eat ANY of that cost when they haven't done anything wrong. It was your decision to bail.

I inspected the car closely & found it wasn't what I was looking for in terms of condition.

After reviewing pictures and having your body guy say it was cool, YOU decided after viewing the car it wasn't what YOU wanted. Sounds like a breach of contract to me. I know the car was not misrepresented as to condition.

I think if he didn't say anything to you when you reneged on the agreement you were lucky. I would have told you straight up after making this statement:
I told him so & said I'd pass on the car & that I realized he didn't have to return my deposit/downpayment

You'll get back some if any of your deposit after the car is sold and not a moment before. Any deficiency and expenses would be withheld from your deposit as liquidating damages. It's just business.

You used your deposit to, in effect, hold the car until you got a better look at it... Not cool. Been around long enough to read through the BS and get the real meaning. hemicop, I truly get the feeling it's "all about you."

Bottom line - you breached the contract and now must wait until it all settles out.
 
Wow.

I was always under the impression that if I put down a deposit on a vehicle it was not refundable. This protects the seller. I had better have a pretty good idea if I want it or not before I do so because if I decide to "pass" I am out my money.

If I received all the pics I wanted and all were my questions were answered there would have to be a pretty good reason why I would walk away from my $500 deposit.

Sorry you feel the way you do Hemicop but that's how deposits work. He could have already sold the car to someone else.
 
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