If you trust the substrate you are priming over you can either epoxy the car and then finish with sandable primer surfacer, or find a direct to metal primer surfacer and prime that way.
Body Work Tutorial
- Thread starter 67Dart440GT
- Start date
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If you trust the substrate you are priming over you can either epoxy the car and then finish with sandable primer surfacer, or find a direct to metal primer surfacer and prime that way.
Ok, here are just a few photo's of some of the things I discussed above, here you can see the rust is cut out, and I welded in a small panel at the bottom of the quarter. This quarter was actually pretty messed up with a large crease running from top to bottom. Also this is the quarter that I showed had a deep patch of body filler in to make the end cap fit.
Here is how I went about fixing the panel. Sorry I didn't take many photo's the camera has beena acting up lately. I used a porta power from a support on one side of the trunk panel to the damaged area. Now you can really cause some damage with these in the area you are pushing and the area you are pushing from... so be careful. All I really needed to do here was put a little pressure on the area, and did some stress relieving. I tapped on all of the buckles in the rear tailight housing area untill the panel started to come back around. It was rolled in about 1/4 inch.
Here are some photo's of epoxy primer that has sat over night to dry. Looks nice doesn't it? Epoxy dries very slow so let it sit if you can, one of the biggest problems with paint work is rushing it. Once the epoxy dries overnight you can add your filler primer. I am doing that as we speak so I will be showing you some photo's of that as well.
So here we have the quarter in epoxy. I didn't get any photo's of the filler work (sorry) camera is being stupid... but it worked here. Basically all I did on this panel was to give it a coat of Rage filler, air filed (yea I'm lazy) then I did break out the board sander 
Finished with a nice thin coat of Evercoat Glaze and bang, she's done... I'm happy to say the filler work actually turned out so nice I could have just painted it without filler primer lol... guess sometimes ya just get lucky.
Finished with a nice thin coat of Evercoat Glaze and bang, she's done... I'm happy to say the filler work actually turned out so nice I could have just painted it without filler primer lol... guess sometimes ya just get lucky.
72ScampTramp
Scamp Tramp
Is this what you are referring to as a filler primers?
4. Poly primer, is a VERY high build primer, most body fillers are polyester based as is this primer. This type of primer is basically sprayable body filler. This is a good primer for leveling an entire car. This primer has the possibility of cracking and chipping because it is so THICK. It does have it's purposes.
5. 2k primer and Urethane primer are usually associated with the same product. A 2k primer is a "two part" primer, basically the primer, and a catalyst. 2k Primers are usually associated with a sandable surface primer or filler primer. The primer is used to fill sand scratches and also help you level bodywork. Dries fairly fast, and usually has a good build of product.
4. Poly primer, is a VERY high build primer, most body fillers are polyester based as is this primer. This type of primer is basically sprayable body filler. This is a good primer for leveling an entire car. This primer has the possibility of cracking and chipping because it is so THICK. It does have it's purposes.
5. 2k primer and Urethane primer are usually associated with the same product. A 2k primer is a "two part" primer, basically the primer, and a catalyst. 2k Primers are usually associated with a sandable surface primer or filler primer. The primer is used to fill sand scratches and also help you level bodywork. Dries fairly fast, and usually has a good build of product.
AdamR
Big Member
Yes those are what hes referring to. I believe he used 2Ks over poly
These pictures here are just straight epoxy over body filler. Sorry lots of different names for each product. The quarter above is just PPG DPLF over body filler, now I will cover it with 2k filler primer.... I call it filler or surfacer primer because really anything that is 2 parts... primer and catalyst is a 2k.
Ok so here right over the top of the epoxy goes the filler primer. I heat lamped the epoxy while on lunch so it's good to go. This primer will be blocked later before paint.
I usually suggest 3-4 coats of primer surfacer.. I do 4 because I reduce it slightly to let it lay down, this way it soaks into sand scratches better, has less orange peel to sand later too.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Hey 67Dart (or anyone else)... any thoughts on the dents I posted up in post #82? Maybe it's too hard to really see what's going on in those pics. I guess if so, the only real main questions are...
1) for that main dent at the back of the quarter, does it make sense to just start pulling out in the 2 areas where the main dents are? That seems to go against the advice, as it seems I should be pulling first in a different area.
2) Are any of those appropriate to use the Dent Killer on, like the dents on the body lines? Or just use regular studs? and
3) After those dents on the bodylines are filled, what sort of filler would be appropriate to use to finish off the bodyline ridge?
Thanks! Great thread!
1) for that main dent at the back of the quarter, does it make sense to just start pulling out in the 2 areas where the main dents are? That seems to go against the advice, as it seems I should be pulling first in a different area.
2) Are any of those appropriate to use the Dent Killer on, like the dents on the body lines? Or just use regular studs? and
3) After those dents on the bodylines are filled, what sort of filler would be appropriate to use to finish off the bodyline ridge?
Thanks! Great thread!
les1234
New Member
This is really intersting stuff-I haven't done any body or paint work for more than 20 years, so many new products to catch up on. Back when I was doing it it was all lacquer primer surfacer, and an enamel "sealer" that you couldn't sand at all, and it seemed that almost anything except acrylic enamel would lift when you recoated it. Oh, and then there was the lacquer glazing putty that seemed almost impossible to feather.....
Don't worry I didn't forget, I have been very busy at work and on my personal pile of crap Dodge truck... lets not go there... I wanted to save a response for when I got more time to try and help best I can.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
OK thanks, I understand. I thought maybe my questions or pictures were too in-depth or unclear. I know how hard it must be sometimes to try to diagnose things through pictures or over the internet, especially with stuff like this where you can't actually feel it. Appreciate it.
72ScampTramp
Scamp Tramp
Can you provied a detailed tutorial on how to DA a car. What grit to take down the currnet finish to metal? What speed to run the DA? I just bought a 6" DA and going to rent a bigger compressor for the weekend. Just curious as to some steps to get that done?
Hey all. I asked 67Dart if I could post up a couple dent examples here for advice on how to approach from himself or anyone else with experience. Every dent is different, right?! So I figured we could all learn. My Dart only has a few dents, fortunately, but unfortunately, they're all in bodylines! My luck!
I've read The Key to Metal Bumping and watched numerous videos, but the best approach to these still eludes me. Better to ask than to muck up my 1/4!
After I work on these dents with advice, I'll post up the results as before/after. Hope to get to as soon as it warms up just a little more.
I have at my disposal:
- basic body hammers/dollys.
- H&S Autoshot stud welder/puller
- H&S Autoshot Dent Killer (picked it up new, cheap, thought it might come in handy at some point.)
DENT AT REAR OF DRIVER'S QUARTER:
I'll let my notes on the pics do most of the talking. To me, on this one it seems like if I pull out the deep main dent, and same with the smaller dent under the bodyline, a lot of the shallow stuff would straighten out. While slightly hammering on that crease at the bottom back that sticks out. But, that seems to go against the advice, so I'm not sure.
DENT(S) IN FRONT OF REAR WHEEL ON BODYLINE ON DRIVER'S QUARTER:
This will not be a show car, so I don't expect perfection here, but would like to get it looking like not-crap. After this is straightened to best of my ability, I'm sure it's going to take some filler (hopefully a small amount) to get those lines back pointed again. Would I just get it close then use regular filler, or something different? (I have Rage Gold now, and I also have some long-strand glass filler as well as some All-Metal, which I've never used).
THANK YOU!
Ok lets try to tackle some of your dents. One thing I would suggest is to work them from behind in these area's. I like to do this for a few reasons. You can see what you are doing (gloss from the paint is still there) and more metal work can be done without adding heat to the panel (stud guns or other).
If you have some good strong pry bars, or rods you can start working the dents out from inside the panel. I like to push around the perimeter of the dent and tap from the outside. You can work your way towards the center of the dent slowly hammering down the high spots. Putting outward pressure on the dents will help relieve the stress and relax the dent. The outward high spots will just relax and go back to where they belong with a little tapping from your hammer... You should get a decent set of hammers and dollies if you don't already.
Once you are to the point of getting the dent out you can hammer and dolly the area flat. Remember that a hammer and dolly is actually stretching the metal because you are flattening it out like rolling dough on the counter top.
There are a two good techniques for hammer and dolly work. There is "hammer on dolly" this is where you have the dolly directly behind the hammer to flatten out spots, and "hammer off dolly" this is where you hammer on the metal, but have the dolly off to the side. This can help you hammer down a high spot without stretching the metal as much.
For area's that you cannot get to you can use your dent removal tools to pull the dents out, again work from the outside in while stress relieving the metal around the dents.
The "first in last out" method is a good way to work a dent. You first want to survey the dent, and see what direction the impact came from. This will give you an idea of what happened and how to reverse what happened.
The two damages that we mentioned before are "direct" damage and "indirect" damage. You want to start with the "indirect" damage first, and work your way towards the point of impact. This will help you control work hardening of the metal.
Remember when working the metal you want to ease it, without forcing anything, you want gentle pressure from behind, along with gentle force from outside. Take your time and do some practice.
72ScampTramp
Scamp Tramp
Any input on aircraft strippers? I wonder if this would save me time and money on large panels like quarters, doors, trunk and hood?
They usually lift one layer at a time, sometimes you will get lucky and it will take everything, you can ruin a paint job if you don't use them correctly, you need to WASH the metal afterwards and scrub it with water to remove the chemicals.
My opinion is all they do is make a mess.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
OK, I'll give it a shot as soon as it warms up a bit. Thanks much.
No problem, let me know if you need any other help.
Ok everyone, here are a few more updates, not a lot of photo's but another different repair to consider. Here the battery tray of the Mudstain is rusted up pretty good from possibly a leaking battery. The front part of the apron has a few bolts in it and spot welds to remove. A lot of people will drill out spot welds to remove these panels, I rarely drill a spot weld. I usually take my air hammer with a cutting chisel bit like this
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Air_Tools/Air_Hammers/GYCH110.htm
I will go around the area to be removed and cut the center out close to the edges, once the center is cut out I will just take a grinder and grind the spot welds out, to me this is much faster than drilling.
After the panel is removed I masked up the car to sandblast the engine bay, once it was blasted and clean I welded in the new part.
A few things to remember, Always take measurements, take several before you do any repair work, measure both sides of the car and compare (not every car is symmetrical). Take measurements from several different points and write them down. This part I measured the location of the panel, as well as the location of the radiator support. Once you section in the new part you can move either around to get your points right. I always will test fit any bolt on panel before fully welding too.
http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Air_Tools/Air_Hammers/GYCH110.htm
I will go around the area to be removed and cut the center out close to the edges, once the center is cut out I will just take a grinder and grind the spot welds out, to me this is much faster than drilling.
After the panel is removed I masked up the car to sandblast the engine bay, once it was blasted and clean I welded in the new part.
A few things to remember, Always take measurements, take several before you do any repair work, measure both sides of the car and compare (not every car is symmetrical). Take measurements from several different points and write them down. This part I measured the location of the panel, as well as the location of the radiator support. Once you section in the new part you can move either around to get your points right. I always will test fit any bolt on panel before fully welding too.
Now that the panel is welded in I ground down any plug welds that were needed. After that was finished I followed the same priming steps listed above, wax and grease removed, and primed with PPG DPLF epoxy, then will paint with the correct engine compartment paint for a Mudstain.
72ScampTramp
Scamp Tramp
Ok here is what im working with. You can see from the photos the top coat is chipped and flaking badly. But once I started sanding with the 50 grit I noticed the scale was leaving but what was underneith was actually pretty good shape. So instead of taking to bare metal id like to take it down far enough to get rid of the scale. I bought some disc awhile back I have 50 of each 50grit 180grit 220grit and 320 grit. My epoxy says 220 as min for primer. So what between the 50 and 180 should I use? My plan is 2 coats of epoxy followed by 2-3 coats of 2k high build, block with 220 then 1 more coat of 2k wet sand at 400 then apply sealer then top coat.
Now above is tenative I used the 50 grit right or wrong its already done. If something above is wrong let me know. Im doing this for a first time and I do listen well and its going pretty good. I do need some filler work mainly where I installed quarters and a few other patch areas. Not much for dents and dings really.
Now above is tenative I used the 50 grit right or wrong its already done. If something above is wrong let me know. Im doing this for a first time and I do listen well and its going pretty good. I do need some filler work mainly where I installed quarters and a few other patch areas. Not much for dents and dings really.
Ok good, I have recieved a lot of pm's on this thread so instead just go ahead and post up some photo's and we can help you get squared away, posting here will help others who might be going through the same thing as you.
One question from above, the specs all over the surface are hard to see...what are they? Is it surface rust? Some look like chips and the flaking you mentioned, some looks like surface rust?
One question from above, the specs all over the surface are hard to see...what are they? Is it surface rust? Some look like chips and the flaking you mentioned, some looks like surface rust?
AdamR
Big Member
Looks like the panel was taken down to bare metal and primed then it sat and developed rust underneath. I would take it all down to bare metal again, treat the rust pits and get more primer on it.
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