Check out my drums!(Pleasantly surprised)

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Meet-Joe-"Dart"

Meet-Joe-"Dart"

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Well as you can see I don't have front drums! YES!!! The previous owner told me it had drums on all 4 corners. I've had the car since Sept. but haven't had much time to get into it. (Funny but my wife said the car stopped remarkably good for having manual drums!!!)

How do I figure out my bolt pattern? Big or small?
 

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measure the distance from stud center to stud center across the rotor not ajoining studs. 4" smp 4.5" BBP
 
Those should be small bolt pattern, but to check, measure across from one stud to another stud two places away. If it's "about" 4", it's small bolt, if it's "about" 4.5", it's big bolt pattern.
 
Meet-Joe-"Dart";1588177 said:
Well as you can see I don't have front drums! YES!!! The previous owner told me it had drums on all 4 corners. I've had the car since Sept. but haven't had much time to get into it. (Funny but my wife said the car stopped remarkably good for having manual drums!!!)

How do I figure out my bolt pattern? Big or small?
Click to expand...

Looks like Kelsey Hays 4 piston calipers so if they are A-boby parts they will be small bolt pattern. Does the brake rotor seperate from the hub?
 
I would say those are K-H small bolt pattern original to your A-body and yes they do stop good. There is a lot of braking surface there and 4 pistons applying the force.
Aftermarket supports most of the replacement parts and dont be surprised by the need for some. The most common fault is sticking pistons and pads wearing uneven.
Replacing both calipers with reman'd containing 8 new stainless steel pistond is quite expensive.
The hat type rotor is swedged to the hub at the lug studs and a pain in the butt to replace. Regular maintainance is the key to success.
There are similar multi-piston calipers still found under brand new cars. Their advantage is a silicone additive in the brake fluid they use.
The basic old school DOT 3 fluid is fine. Just bleed fresh fluid into the system. Never push the old fluid back up into the system when replacing linnings. Bleed it out instead. Good luck with them.
 
Wow.......Thats the weirdest drums i ever saw>>LOL. Thats great for you. SBP or BBP it dont matter.......You have discs up front thats a plus in my book.
 
trapster said:
looks like large pattern 4 piston brakes to me.
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There is no such thing as "large pattern" 4 piston, Kelsey Hayes disc brakes.
They are 4 inch, small bolt pattern.
Always were, from day one, nothing else.
 
hemi71x said:
There is no such thing as "large pattern" 4 piston, Kelsey Hayes disc brakes.
They are 4 inch, small bolt pattern.
Always were, from day one, nothing else.
Click to expand...

And they suck for anything other than a cruiser or show queen...they fade quick when used repeatedly
 
I believe you, and you are probably correct.

but from the picture it looks like large pattern, would have to measure it to be sure.
 
hemi71x said:
There is no such thing as "large pattern" 4 piston, Kelsey Hayes disc brakes.
They are 4 inch, small bolt pattern.
Always were, from day one, nothing else.
Click to expand...

Ah Grasshopper, but what of the 4 piston KH setup found on 67-69 B-body cars such as the 67 GTX in my garage?? Same setup as the SBP A-body stuff except the larger bolt pattern?? Same Same, no??

If you think the A-body stuff is hard to find and expensive to buy, try replacing any part of the B-body setup!! Even 15 years ago when I bought all new stuff for the X it was $200.00 a piece for the rotors and calipers, with exchange!!! OUCH!!! Geof
 
cosgig said:
Ah Grasshopper, but what of the 4 piston KH setup found on 67-69 B-body cars such as the 67 GTX in my garage?? Same setup as the SBP A-body stuff except the larger bolt pattern?? Same Same, no?? Geof
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You are not quite right with that statement.
On the 1966-69 B body cars, they use a BENDIX disc brake system, and the 1965-72 A body cars use a KELSEY HAYES, disc brake system.
Yes, both styles use a 4 piston caliper, but they are totally different from one another.
 
hemi71x said:
You are not quite right with that statement.
On the 1966-69 B body cars, they use a BENDIX disc brake system, and the 1965-72 A body cars use a KELSEY HAYES, disc brake system.
Yes, both styles use a 4 piston caliper, but they are totally different from one another.
Click to expand...

Ah yes, Bendix!! That does ring a bell!! They sure do look like the KH setup..same 2 piece hub and drum and 4 piston caliper!! Thank God I haven't had to do anything to this setup in years!! Thanks for dusting off the memory banks hemi71!! Geof
 
They measure 4" ...so small bolt pattern. I will upgrade these brakes. Replace what's there, or change to the large bolt pattern? (still relieved I don't have to do a drum-disc conversion! Would this be a disc brake car from the factory? 70 Dart Custom)
 
Mikes270dart said:
measure the distance from stud center to stud center across the rotor not ajoining studs. 4" smp 4.5" BBP
Click to expand...

Or,
he could just look at the studs themselves. SBP uses 7/16" studs, LBP has 1/2" studs.

But looks like he's already figured out that they are sbp KH
 
Meet-Joe-"Dart"
Converting over to the larger 4 1/2 inch bolt pattern disc brakes opens up another "can of worms" for you in that changeover.
You will need to change your upper control arms to 73-76 A body UCA's. and also use the 73-76 A body lower ball joints.
Other than that,you can use A, B, E, F, M, J, body large bolt pattern brakes on your car.
And yes, your car could have left the factory with the disc brakes that are now on it.
It was a factory option, if it was ordered, or the factory just built it the way it is.

cosig
Here is a picture of what BENDIX and KELSEY HAYES 4 piston calipers look like, side by side.
Once you compare them, they aren't even close to one another.
Jim V.
 

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Meet-Joe-"Dart";1588654 said:
They measure 4" ...so small bolt pattern. I will upgrade these brakes. Replace what's there, or change to the large bolt pattern? (still relieved I don't have to do a drum-disc conversion! Would this be a disc brake car from the factory? 70 Dart Custom)
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be a factory set up for your car. Great brake system as long as you use quality pads.

There is a thread on FABO with very detailed information on using Mustang BBP rotors on a factory Kelsey Hayes SBP set up. Otherwise it will still be the same change over just like it would be for drums.

Here is a link to the original thread.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=20544&highlight=mustang+rotors
 
Meet-Joe-"Dart";1588654 said:
They measure 4" ...so small bolt pattern. I will upgrade these brakes. Replace what's there, or change to the large bolt pattern? (still relieved I don't have to do a drum-disc conversion! Would this be a disc brake car from the factory? 70 Dart Custom)
Click to expand...

upgrade to what?
you already have the best disk brakes made for an A-body, far superior to the later single piston set up
yes they are correct for a 70 dart custom with optional front disk brakes, so they should be original I suspect
just change the pads when they get low

on A-body's the facts are,
all kelsey hayes four piston disk brakes are small bolt 5X4"
all front drum brakes are small bolt5X4"
all single piston front disc brakes and only single piston front disk brakes are big bolt 5X4-1/2"
 
hemi71x said:
You are not quite right with that statement.
On the 1966-69 B body cars, they use a BENDIX disc brake system, and the 1965-72 A body cars use a KELSEY HAYES, disc brake system.
Yes, both styles use a 4 piston caliper, but they are totally different from one another.
Click to expand...

I AM getting old, but I swear "we" once junked out a Charger that had 4 piston calipers, and yeah, I do know the difference, as at the time I still had my 70 RR with single piston disks
 
67Dart273 said:
I AM getting old, but I swear "we" once junked out a Charger that had 4 piston calipers, and yeah, I do know the difference, as at the time I still had my 70 RR with single piston disks
Click to expand...

You must have overlooked the post above. Here it is again in the post below.

hemi71x said:
You are not quite right with that statement.
On the 1966-69 B body cars, they use a BENDIX disc brake system, and the 1965-72 A body cars use a KELSEY HAYES, disc brake system.
Yes, both styles use a 4 piston caliper, but they are totally different from one another.
Click to expand...
 
67Dart273 said:
I AM getting old, but I swear "we" once junked out a Charger that had 4 piston calipers, and yeah, I do know the difference, as at the time I still had my 70 RR with single piston disks
Click to expand...

you are correct your charger may have had four piston BENDIX disk brakes
 
caferacerx said:
upgrade to what?
you already have the best disk brakes made for an A-body, far superior to the later single piston set up
yes they are correct for a 70 dart custom with optional front disk brakes, so they should be original I suspect
just change the pads when they get low

on A-body's the facts are,
all kelsey hayes four piston disk brakes are small bolt 5X4"
all front drum brakes are small bolt5X4"
all single piston front disc brakes and only single piston front disk brakes are big bolt 5X4-1/2"
Click to expand...

Was wondering about that upgrade remark. These are extremely effective brakes,and the same system Ford put on thier mustang. One other thing that most people miss; The sill area were the pad glides on the caliper can get grooved,causing the pads to stick. They can be welded,but the relacements are cheap enough. Im going to weld mine once I have a torch hot enough.

Someone here will always say thier crap. I really like em! They are very effective in a panic stop. As for brake fade,well thats pad material,and when they get really hot it's also what fluid your using.
 
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