"clones"

[goldduster360]

I worked for a restorer about 20 yrs ago who used to graft several donors together to get a #matching car. They were 1958 Pontiac Bonneville convertibles. Most of them were so rotten they had to be "rebodied". Since every conceivable part that came on a Bonne was replaced on the doner body including the vin at what point did it become a clone or was it acceptable if all the #'s still matched. If memory serves on some older cars number matching meant the casting dates were in close enough proximity to the build date if engine blocks and tranny's were not serialized. Many have re-serialized blocks with correct casting dates. Is it right to do that? I would not do it . I think the real stigma that has haunted "clones" is they are inferior to the original because they are always lacking some ingredient like proper brakes or suspension that would have come with that hot engine. Slapping decals on a car does not count as a clone to me unless it has ALL the hardware to go with it. I did not work the sales end of his car business so I don't know how he disclosed anything but nobody ever complained about anything he sold them as the cars were "Hershey" quality restorations.

I think what you need to remember when you are building a car is to build it the way you want it. That is what the factory did if you bought it new. A slant six car did not start out life any different than a 340 did until the factory bolted in the k-member. A clone can be just as desireable(but less valuable) as one that is has all it's papers in order and is "pedigreed" if it is packing the hardware the factory intended it to have.

A car is only original once anyway, once you take it apart and restore it's not original anymore, numbers matching or not. There is nothing wrong with building a slant six car into a v/8 car as long as you are willing to disclose it when you part with it.

If you want a trailer queen that is not to be driven go for pedigree, if you want something you can drive than you should go on condition and quality of build. My Goldduster360 is way more desireable than the slant six car it once was. Mine would be pretty easy to spot as I think the vin gives it away as a /6 car. It's a hobby, just pick one to your liking and enjoy it. It's still ok to be picky though

 

[shadango]

What exactly did 442 stand for ... I know it wasn't size of the motor.

4 = 400 cubic inch

4 = four speed

2= two carbs

I've heard all different type explanations.

I always thought it was
4= 4 barrel carb
4=four speed
2= dual exhaust

But it looks like it can mean a bunch of things, dependant on year, if this is correct....the last one was curious....never knew there were 442s in the 90s....

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/of442.htm

 

[shadango]

<snip> I think the real stigma that has haunted "clones" is they are inferior to the original because they are always lacking some ingredient like proper brakes or suspension that would have come with that hot engine. Slapping decals on a car does not count as a clone to me unless it has ALL the hardware to go with it. <snip>
I think what you need to remember when you are building a car is to build it the way you want it. That is what the factory did if you bought it new. A slant six car did not start out life any different than a 340 did until the factory bolted in the k-member. A clone can be just as desireable(but less valuable) as one that is has all it's papers in order and is "pedigreed" if it is packing the hardware the factory intended it to have.

A car is only original once anyway, once you take it apart and restore it's not original anymore, numbers matching or not. There is nothing wrong with building a slant six car into a v/8 car as long as you are willing to disclose it when you part with it.

<snip>It's a hobby, just pick one to your liking and enjoy it. It's still ok to be picky though

Thanks! I think you hit the nails on the head as far as what I was "trying" to say....I feel how you feel.

I dont mean to upset any folks who feel otherwise....I have been learning a lot in my search, thats for sure.

 

[mullinax95]

I always thought it was
4= 4 barrel carb
4=four speed
2= dual exhaust

But it looks like it can mean a bunch of things, dependant on year, if this is correct....the last one was curious....never knew there were 442s in the 90s....

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/of442.htm

Now looking where did I get 2= 2 carbs.... sounds better than dual exhaust! LOL

 

[hemizach]

I always thought it was
4= 4 barrel carb
4=four speed
2= dual exhaust

But it looks like it can mean a bunch of things, dependant on year, if this is correct....the last one was curious....never knew there were 442s in the 90s....

http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/of442.htm

To be honest guys I'm not sure... but people don't ask anymore...

I think the one with dual exhaust is right

 

[cudaspaz]

Clones are fine, putting 340 stripes on a slant six car is weird, but it's their car, but kinda goofy when the hood goes up and everyone looks at the owner like, "you dork." but again, it's their car.

I say don't be too picky since these cars may be a dying breed altogether especially if Obama gets any more "executive order" happy.

Dang, that dude is like a freaking kid in an executive order candy store who better quit before he o/d's on the ink. ....dang man!

Anyways, we need to, I hate to say it, be cool with the mustang and camaro guys too because I think in the not too distant future our old cars are gonna be demonized just as the liberals are demonizing talk radio.

The song from Rush , "Red Barchetta" keeps looking more and more like a reality so if those dudes want to mount a spare tire to the hood of a 70 hemi road runner, may God bless them, it's their car to enjoy the way they want while they still can.

 

[stroked 340]

What exactly did 442 stand for ...

Lunch for a 340 a-body...:-D

 

[DartGTDan]

The 1st time I met the previous owner of my car, he really pushed the fact that it was rare, and therefore the asking price reflected it's "rarity". I walked away from the deal for over a year. About 14 months later he dropped the price. I bought it because it had all the equipment I was looking for (V-8, automatic (console shift with buckets), PS, 8 3/4" rear with 3.23:1 sure-grip).

As it sits now it has SSBC disc brakes up front, MP electronic ignition, 2 1/4" dual exhaust (manifolds & FlowMaster 40s), 1970 14" x 5 1/2" Rallye wheels, 1970 twin hood scoops, all underhood A/C components removed (and boxed up in storage), and the RimBlo removed (awaiting $ for restoration).

I have plans to install a custom dashboard/instrument cluster, as well as another set of bumpers that will be painted body color (whatever color that may end up being).

I will continue to "resto-mod" as I like, but will keep all the original equipment in case somebody else wants to put it all back the way it came from the factory.

If/when I sell the buyer will know what it "was then" and what it "is now". Honesty is my policy.

I still appreciate the effort/time/cost that people put into a #s matching restoration and love originals, but neither are for me.

 

[Small Block]

Yep...some can't afford a 340....that's why we put a 500 horse 440 in it. It use to be a /6 though.

You don't want to run your stock 340 up against my 318 in the 72 duster.....can you spell "Back to the drawing board" ?

 

[DusterEd]

I think if you are looking to buy a 340,you should do your homework. I think some people use 340 decals on their cars because- a. they like the look
b. everybody knows that 340's are lengendary. c. always wanted one. But I see nothing wrong with a 318. They run great and get better miles per gallon. And as long as they are clean and look good most people don't care it is a 318. But if somebody is trying to sell you a 318 or 225 and says its a 340. Well that's just wrong.

 

[Burntorange70]

Some will look at this car and say. "It's a 72 Demon."


Others will say. "That is a 75 Duster."


But in the end they are both wrong. It is a :snakemanustDemon:snakeman:

 

[rklein383]

I don't have a big problem with clones. I just can't figure out why some people go so crazy with useless details like date coded engines, spark plug wires, hoses, etc. Hell, if it looks good and runs good, it's good enough. If your building a clone, why does it matter if the engine is the right year?

I have an original 69 383-S fastback that has had a 440+6 in it for nearly 20 years. The engine happens to be a 69 440, but I could really care less. I built the car because Chrysler should have, but didn't. By the way, I have the 383-S badges on the side. Why advertise a bigger engine, back in the day, you never let them know whay you really had under the hood.

Rod

 

[Twisted-72]

OK I don't know where my car fits into this? It is a real Twister, but there was no way I was leaving the 225 to power it. So I put in a 400 and badged it to match. I always get the same response "I didn't know they made a 400 Twister". Which I always come back with they didn't, I did. I never cover my VIN, I tell everyone it was a 225 and I just built it the way I wanted. So where do I fit in?

 

[res1vw21]

Another where does it fit, Tara's swinger started life as a /6 '71 auto white with green vinyl top swinger, it now has a 360 4spd, rally dash, 340 hood scoops, hood pins rally wheels, tail stripe. I will post more pics when I paint her.
So Is it a 340 clone? It is not badged that way, nor is it intended to be a clone but it looks like 340 swinger.

 

[mullinax95]

OK I don't know where my car fits into this? It is a real Twister, but there was no way I was leaving the 225 to power it. So I put in a 400 and badged it to match. I always get the same response "I didn't know they made a 400 Twister". Which I always come back with they didn't, I did. I never cover my VIN, I tell everyone it was a 225 and I just built it the way I wanted. So where do I fit in?

It fits good on my desktop! :-D

 

[Longgone]

I think cars like Twisted-72`s are referred to as fantasy cars. They are the cars that owners wished had been created by Chrysler.

 

[shadango]

OK I don't know where my car fits into this? It is a real Twister, but there was no way I was leaving the 225 to power it. So I put in a 400 and badged it to match. I always get the same response "I didn't know they made a 400 Twister". Which I always come back with they didn't, I did. I never cover my VIN, I tell everyone it was a 225 and I just built it the way I wanted. So where do I fit in?
View attachment 58547

View attachment 58548

Sweet car! You must be proud of that beast.

Since it IS a real twister, the twister badges make sense...even with the 400...IMHO. The rest of the car is twister.

My only point was that putting stickers on something that doesnt actually have what the cool stickers say it (should) have doesnt make it anything other than a car with cool stickers on it...IMHO. Stripes, panels, etc are one thing....but when it says "440" or "340" or "AAR", thats pretty literal as to what it should mean.

But not getting down on anyone's choices.....as was already said, we are all free to build cars the way we see fit.

I guess I am just more of a practical person.....if you are gonna stick 440 stickers on something, it should have a 440. That holds true with a 340, etc....

Otherwise find a way to personalize your creation without "faking" it and using what amounts to an overused way of souping something up. Be creative. Why take a beautiful machine that you spent so much time, sweat and blood on and then cheapen it with stickers that are completely off?

I aint no purist..trust me.

 

[340_dart_power]

I try to keep the 372 a secret on the street.Nobody needs to know!LOL!!

A Sleeper Mopar, eh? Very nice...

Personally, I don't like false advertising in any form, but as the man once said in response to the question about his girlfriend's anatomical protuberances, "They're real if I can touch them."

If you have a Mopar like mine, yank the original 318 and stick a 340 into it then I think you're entitled to badge it as a 340 car, despite not having left the plant in Canada with a 340. I've never seen the drivability of museum-quality cars, and driving my Dart is what "does it" for me.

As others have said though, have fun with it. If it works for you, so be it. Plenty of room under the tent for all to enjoy.

 

[340_dart_power]

OK I don't know where my car fits into this? It is a real Twister, but there was no way I was leaving the 225 to power it. So I put in a 400 and badged it to match. I always get the same response "I didn't know they made a 400 Twister". Which I always come back with they didn't, I did. I never cover my VIN, I tell everyone it was a 225 and I just built it the way I wanted. So where do I fit in?
View attachment 58547

View attachment 58548

Very nice Duster! How much more unique can you get?

 

[madmaximum]

The song from Rush , "Red Barchetta" keeps looking more and more like a reality so if those dudes want to mount a spare tire to the hood of a 70 hemi road runner, may God bless them, it's their car to enjoy the way they want while they still can.

I laughed Hard! Spare TIRE on the Hood!!! Nice.

Now I wanna Build Bright Green & Black 70 Charger with Blown HEMI sucking Nitrous in front of a 6-Speed "MONSTER" Energy Graphics on the side With a Clear Hood w/ a Black Shaker Style Scoop. AND Fox Shox Dampened 24" Long Travel Suspension 33" A/T's 15" Mag-Look Wheels with Bead Locks. A Ram Bumper. 4 5"dia. HID Light Rack and Spare Tire on the Roof. A CB Antenna that is Long enough to pierce the sky with a real In-N-Out Burger on it!(Plastic Coted for Durability. 2-piece case for maybe a snack sometime) And a Big Red Fire Extiguisher where the Console used to be. Lambo doors are Obviously "IN" These days so throw on a pair of those and a 10' High Chartuse Nitrous Purge and Flamethrowing Exhaust. DUH!! oh and Tow a Matching Trailer with Drag Slicks in it and Gasser Staright Axle Front for the Strip or some Saturday Night Street Racing.

Oh and of course a Parachute!!!! Right on the Back Bumper and Drivers seat With an Emergency T-top Escape Hatch!!! (Cause you never know man! Might Base jump out of it *** style Dude!)

If anyone is any good at photomanipulation like that...

I WILL PAY YOU $10 TO MAKE THAT CAR and e-mail it to me!:cheers:

I Love this Thread. It brings out people's True colors. I wanna turn my car into an Era Correct SCCA Race car and take it to the Monterey Historics. So:thebirdm: White Power!!! This is America where Freedom Costs a Buck.05


All you gotta do to be cool is drive something without Honda Badges on it and you'll be cool in My Book!!!

 

[Twisted-72]

Thanks for all of the kind comments. The car still needs work, but it takes a good pic. Here is a picture of the engine bay.