CONSTANTLY screwin' with the troops.........

[67Dart273]

I've been out of HVAC service for a LONG time, other than "occasional." Checking my own system, which needs a couple pounds of R22 every 5 years, I installed the neighbor's 410A system some time back and a vehicle now and again

And my tools are slowly getting "dispersed" from just knocking around

The neighbor's son wants me to help install a new system in his new house, and I am seriously thinking of replacing the old, aged R22 system in my house before I get too feeble

So I thought I'd "spruce up" some of the tools.

I bought an extra high pressure high side gauge and figured I'd put it on a spare manifold. This will give me two manifolds capable of 410A pressures. I put the old "R22" high side gauge on the LOW side and the new high side gauge where it belongs.

Bought a new set of hoses, as 410A pressures are considerable, a new core replacer tool and a core depressor valve controller, and a couple extra thermocouples for the digi thermometer. "N' stuff."

THEN I FIND OUT that evidently "some" of the 310A systems are now using FIVE SIXTEENTH FLARE FITTINGS for ?? what ?? the low side only? both? some? none? many? all? the service ports instead of the "old industry standard" 1/4" fittings.

And I read that "this is to prevent accidently improper charging of R22 into 410A systems"

Well I have news for ya, ya stupid annoying engineers and regulatory assholes................

Any service guy WHO IS SMART ENOUGH to cobble together a vacuum pump with 1/4 or 3/8 fittings, a service manifold with 1/4" fittings, and THEN ADAPTERS for FIVE SIXTEENTHS is not very likely to "accidently" charge R22 into a 410A system!!!!!s

 

[67Dart273]

Here are the "gauges."
This set I bought used and still wears the low and high side "R22" gauges. I will transfer a good Hi side 22 gauge to the left for the "new low" and install a new "410A" high side on the right

This is another set I have converted, R22 high side on left, R410A high side on the right. This is done simply to deal with the higher pressures involved with 410A

Yet another minor annoyance with fittings is that I bought a 30lb jug of R134A. Turns out they use something called an "acme fitting" to further try and "prevent" accidents. SO YET ONE MORE ADAPTER from the "Acme" tank to the old 1/4" gauge charging hose

I'm starting to feel like Wylie.........

 

[Phreakish]

My bet is that the 5/16 has nothing to do with trying to prevent a cross-over of refrigerant. But instead is because 5/16 is closer to a whole mm (8mm) than 1/4" is (6.35mm) - and 'global trade' being what it is, the 5/16 fittings are probably a few pennies cheaper to make than the 1/4", even with the added material/size.

Plus, a thicker wall lets you use sub-par materials with fewer consequences. As with all things, I see a solution engineered for lowest lifecycle cost vs engineered for performance/ease/efficiency/compliance.

That's just a guess though, but it makes more sense to me since as you noted: any tech worth a darn is gonna have the fittings to make it happen anyway.

 

[72Dinger]

The 5/16 thing was early on in 410a rollout. I've never seen it on anything but minisplits. It was to keep you from dumping 22 on them. I don't think it was widely accepted though outside of mini's.

Get combo gauges 22/404a/410a. I've used old jb manifolds by swapping gauge sets.

 

[toolmanmike]

I've been out of HVAC service for a LONG time, other than "occasional." Checking my own system, which needs a couple pounds of R22 every 5 years, I installed the neighbor's 410A system some time back and a vehicle now and again

And my tools are slowly getting "dispersed" from just knocking around

The neighbor's son wants me to help install a new system in his new house, and I am seriously thinking of replacing the old, aged R22 system in my house before I get too feeble

So I thought I'd "spruce up" some of the tools.

I bought an extra high pressure high side gauge and figured I'd put it on a spare manifold. This will give me two manifolds capable of 410A pressures. I put the old "R22" high side gauge on the LOW side and the new high side gauge where it belongs.

Bought a new set of hoses, as 410A pressures are considerable, a new core replacer tool and a core depressor valve controller, and a couple extra thermocouples for the digi thermometer. "N' stuff."

THEN I FIND OUT that evidently "some" of the 310A systems are now using FIVE SIXTEENTH FLARE FITTINGS for ?? what ?? the low side only? both? some? none? many? all? the service ports instead of the "old industry standard" 1/4" fittings.

And I read that "this is to prevent accidently improper charging of R22 into 410A systems"

Well I have news for ya, ya stupid annoying engineers and regulatory assholes................

Any service guy WHO IS SMART ENOUGH to cobble together a vacuum pump with 1/4 or 3/8 fittings, a service manifold with 1/4" fittings, and THEN ADAPTERS for FIVE SIXTEENTHS is not very likely to "accidently" charge R22 into a 410A system!!!!!s

View attachment 1715921283

Gotcha! I always got blamed when I was selling tools! Yep, my fault.

 

[67Dart273]

Well I have some stuff ordered. As soon as "the kid" gets the equipment in, I need to go out there and take a good look and have a good "think" and make some notes about what we'll do and what I need, if anything. Furnace and water tank are in a very small closet, and the new evap unit is wider than the available space. We'll have to move the return duct drop over a couple inches, so we'll have to patch a little bit where it connects in the overhead. Even though it's tight, it looks to be a fairly easy deal. Easy access through the wall outside so we can set the OD unit "right there." a run around the corner of the house maybe 40ft of conduit to the panel. The son and his dad will have to do a lot of the "grunt" because I can't anymore. Operating snips in tight places is now impossible. I just don't have the "grip" anymore.

 

[4spdragtop]

Make sure to hit him up to do the grunt work involved at your place.when you replace it.

 

[Demonic]

Same as mentioned earlier - if you stay away from mini-splits, you won't need a 5/16 gauge set. But then again, an evacuation set with a 3/8 hose for the vac pump saves a bit of time getting to 200 microns. Stay away from the VRF's too, their evacuation spec is down to 50 microns I hear.

 

[67Dart273]

I think I'm just annoyed because so much of this seems unnecessary. After all "when I was" working in this field, we had several different refrigerants. I've worked with 12, 22, 502, 500, and one low pressure system I barely got an overview on used R11. That is basically sort of like paint thinner. VERY low pressure. I've never worked with Ammonia, or the older, more dangerous sulfur dioxide, or methyl chloride.

But the point is, there were several refrigerants back then, and they ALL had standardized 1/4" SAE flare service ports. Yes, I spose there were accidental mixups, but I never heard or knew of any around the Spokane/ Coeur d Alene area where I worked

So far I've already got the "Acme" adapter for the R134 jug, the somewhat expensive quick connects for R134 automotive, and a "only been used once" adapter for the old 86-87 Rangers I had. I think it is 3/16 flare for one of the ports in that little truck.

My aged Lennox (used only as AC) heat pump is so old, it has REAL back seating service valves!!!

 

[RustyRatRod]

It's funny you mention the change on the 30 pound 134 cylinders. I still help Matt out right down the road on occasion. He needs me to charge the AC on builds he does as he doesn't do AC work. The "old" cylinder I just emptied about 6 months ago. It had the new, larger fitting and I do have the correct adapter. This new cylinder he just got about a month ago, has the old smaller fitting and the adapter isn't necessary. Strange.

 

[67Dart273]

It's funny you mention the change on the 30 pound 134 cylinders. I still help Matt out right down the road on occasion. He needs me to charge the AC on builds he does as he doesn't do AC work. The "old" cylinder I just emptied about 6 months ago. It had the new, larger fitting and I do have the correct adapter. This new cylinder he just got about a month ago, has the old smaller fitting and the adapter isn't necessary. Strange.

Yeh, and I had to go "two rounds." I had ordered one from an ebay seller, advertised to fit R134 cylinder. And it did not. I have no idea at this point, what that fitting was for. It did not have a shrader depressor, so it would have been no good on a 5/16 SAE service fitting. maybe it was just made wrong. In any case I got that refunded and got the correct one