Critical error? or Don't worry about it?

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MileHighDart

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So a couple weekends ago I got my freshly built 5.9 dropped into the Dart. Got the headers bolted up and a few other things.
Then today I find these laying on the workbench. The engine to tranny alignment dowels.

Is this a problem, or will all the bolts align it close enough? Tranny is a 904

IMG_20170709_152341721.jpg
 
Those are pretty important, they align the center line of the transmission with the center line of the engine (crankshaft). I wouldn't run the engine without them.

Treblig
 
You might be able to back out the trans to block bolts till the last couple of threads remain, undo the trans mounts bolts, and carefully ease back the trans enough to get those dowels in position each side and then push trans back in place?
 
The bolts are only there to keep the transmission from spinning. The dowels locate the transmission. I don't think you can put them in without pulling the trans.
 
12many said:
You might be able to back out the trans to block bolts till the last couple of threads remain, undo the trans mounts bolts, and carefully ease back the trans enough to get those dowels in position each side and then push trans back in place?
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Or he can remove 3 bolts and install longer bolts in those 3 spots then remove all the other bolts. That should give him plenty of slack to back the transmission up enough to install the pins.

treblig
 
Do what you have to do to get them back where they belong.
 
toolmanmike said:
Do what you have to do to get them back where they belong.
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They are a mild press fit into the engine mounting surface. You can easily tap them in with a hammer but in this case MileHighDart might have to get them started then push them in using a large screwdriver using the transmission as back up. Once they are started he can take a punch and a hammer and slide the punch through the pin holes in the transmission to get them deeper into the engine.

Treblig
 
The transmission bolt holes are larger than the bolts so they are not designed to locate the center lines of the trans or the engine. After the center line of the engine is established the pin holes are made to get the center of the crank perfectly aligned with the input shaft on the trans. The pin hole in the transmission are done the same way.

treblig
 
If backing out the trans without fully removing it gives enough clearance to actually be able to position those dowels into the block with a pair of channel locks, or what have you, it might be possible to then insert a thin steel plate between the dowel and bell housing face and gradually tighten the trans bolts, carefully obviously, to press the dowels home, assuming they aren't cocked.
 
That's the tricky part....the engine is cast iron (soft and brittle) the pins are steel. If they are cocked (even just a little) you can mess up the hole in the engine and lose the ability to properly align everything. That's why the pins are always installed when you have the engine on the engine stand, so that you can be sure and get the pin perfectly aligned in the hole before you start hammering on it. MileHighDart is going to have to be careful if he doesn't completely remove the tranny. It can be done ....but like the Wicked Witch said, "These things must be done carefully."

treblig
 
If you are too the point you can pull the trans back a little then just drop it down and put them in.
 
Son of a b.....

I guess you guys are right its probably easier at this point to drop the tranny than to pull the engine back out. I only took them out cause they were in the way when I was mounting the engine to my stand. I might try the longer bolts thing and separate it an inch or two and see if I can get them in there. How ever I do it, it aint happening today.

Thanks guys!
 
So when you pull it back just enough on longer bolts, ya gotta hope the converter stays lined up on the front pump.... might as well unbolt it from the flex plate. Now you've jut about got the trans out.. just go ahead and pull it rather than fighting the dowels in such a small space, hoping they go in straight.
 
MileHighDart said:
Son of a b.....

I guess you guys are right its probably easier at this point to drop the tranny than to pull the engine back out. I only took them out cause they were in the way when I was mounting the engine to my stand. I might try the longer bolts thing and separate it an inch or two and see if I can get them in there. How ever I do it, it aint happening today.

Thanks guys!
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If you have headers it gets pretty tight up there where the dowels go.

By the time you get everything back a few inches, your only a few minutes from dropping the tranny all the way down.

Most of those damn things are a pretty tight fit. I mean tight enough to need a pretty BFH to get them in. Not a lot of room to swing with the tranny in there.
 
Me personally I would have to put them back in for sure that's not a question. Beyond all that lineup stuff my concerns would more so be in sheer strength. Kind of like to stop the motor from twisting the transmission off. I know my car is Soul Purpose is for car torture so for this kind of stuff I try and make sure is all good.
 
Wait a minute something really important was covered here!! did the wicked witch actually say that?
Treblig said:
That's the tricky part....the engine is cast iron (soft and brittle) the pins are steel. If they are cocked (even just a little) you can mess up the hole in the engine and lose the ability to properly align everything. That's why the pins are always installed when you have the engine on the engine stand, so that you can be sure and get the pin perfectly aligned in the hole before you start hammering on it. MileHighDart is going to have to be careful if he doesn't completely remove the tranny. It can be done ....but like the Wicked Witch said, "These things must be done carefully."

treblig
Click to expand...
 
ragtopfury said:
So when you pull it back just enough on longer bolts, ya gotta hope the converter stays lined up on the front pump.... might as well unbolt it from the flex plate. Now you've jut about got the trans out.. just go ahead and pull it rather than fighting the dowels in such a small space, hoping they go in straight.
Click to expand...
I read through this to see if someone was going to mention this point. UNBOLT the torque converter bolts to the flex plate and make sure you push the converter back along with the transmission! Other wise your almost sure to break the ears off the front pump.
 
j par said:
Wait a minute something really important was covered here!! did the wicked witch actually say that?
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Well ....I was in a hurry when I wrote that sentence, the wife was calling!! But the Wicked Witch did say about getting the ruby slippers off of Dorothy's feet, "These things must be done delicately!"....just like installing the pins while the transmission is dangling just behind the engine.
See bottom of script:

Dorothy: [Toto is held hostage by the Witch and one of her monkeys] What are you gonna do to my dog? Give him back to me!
Wicked Witch of the West: All in good time, my little pretty. All in good time.
Dorothy: Oh, please give me back my dog?
Wicked Witch of the West: Certainly. Certainly. When you give me those slippers.
Dorothy: But, The Good Witch of the North told me not to.
Wicked Witch of the West: Very well.
[to her flying monkey]
Wicked Witch of the West: Throw that basket into the river and drown him!
Dorothy: No, no, no! Here... You can have your old slippers. But, give me back Toto!
Wicked Witch of the West: That's a good little girl. I know you'd see reason!
[the Witch stoops to steal the shoes. But, fire burns Dorothy's toes and the Witch's hands. she reacts in pain]
Wicked Witch of the West: Ohhhh!
Dorothy: I'm sorry! I didn't do it. Can I still have my dog?
Wicked Witch of the West: No! Fool that I am! I should have remembered! Those slippers will never come off as long as you're alive. But that's not what's worrying me. It's how to do it. These things must be done delicately or you hurt the spell.

treblig
 
Chilling the dowels best you can might help the press or tap in a bit. Your block will thank you !
See bottom of script:

Dorothy: [Toto is held hostage by the Witch and one of her monkeys] What are you gonna do to my dog? Give him back to me!
Wicked Witch of the West: All in good time, my little pretty. All in good time.
Dorothy: Oh, please give me back my dog?
Wicked Witch of the West: Certainly. Certainly. When you give me those slippers.
Dorothy: But, The Good Witch of the North told me not to.
Wicked Witch of the West: Very well.
[to her flying monkey]
Wicked Witch of the West: Throw that basket into the river and drown him!
Dorothy: No, no, no! Here... You can have your old slippers. But, give me back Toto!
Wicked Witch of the West: That's a good little girl. I know you'd see reason!
[the Witch stoops to steal the shoes. But, fire burns Dorothy's toes and the Witch's hands. she reacts in pain]
Wicked Witch of the West: Ohhhh!
Dorothy: I'm sorry! I didn't do it. Can I still have my dog?
Wicked Witch of the West: No! Fool that I am! I should have remembered! Those slippers will never come off as long as you're alive. But that's not what's worrying me. It's how to do it. These things must be done delicately or you hurt the spell.

treblig[/QUOTE]
 
Hey can I ask a silly question? Why did you have them out in the first place?
 
I'm still waiting for someone to chime in with something like "I never put them back in and never had a problem." LOL
 
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