Cruise friendly low 12's with a 340 Dart

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2jz...anything japanese should be used strictly for mileage...theres no such thing as japanese power in my opinion (and before i get flamed, this is my opinion)....i agree with what the guys are saying- its going to hard to do it cheap, so either way i think your gonna have to spend quite a bit of dough...you just need to decide where
 
No such thing as Japanese horsepower... that's some funny stuff there... The company that did a bunch of work for a company called Honda, was started and run by the same guy who brought us the hi-swirl LA heads...

My "other option" would be a 416 build.
 
Well, just to get the tread back on track... The priority is 12's in a streetable budget package. The mpg is likely gonna take a back seat considering this is a car that gets driven twice a month or maybe 2k a year.
 
4 inch crank stroker w/zero deck pistons and a closed chambered head, (Edel. Magnum aluminum's prefured) with a Huges or equal like cam, _ O.D. auto trans and 3.91 gear on not more than a 27 inch tire. This gear ratio in overdrive will feel like a 2.6979 ratio.

Keep the cam smallish in duration and hi on lift. (I'd look at a cam no more than 220 intake duration @ .050 an LA cam with Magnum heads would fit this bill well.) The 904 O.D. version uses less power to operate, but I wouldn't worry so much if I didn't get it and had to use the 518. The later OE tranny's are lock up tranny's and there are stall converters for these units. The lock up will add mileage.
 
I dont know what weight your at but trimming the fat helps along with rolling resistance.I myself dont see 12's without at least 3.91's.And have you thought about a BB?Otherwise i would think about a stroked 5.9 Magnum....a good stroker with the automatic OD would be an option.
 
Just for sayin sake...
Here is a pic of a buddies 2002 R/T
He runs a 408..auto...and 3.91's
He has ran in the high 12's on motor alone.I know he drives it alot(not sure of the miles per)

2002dakrtbydcruser_1.jpg


2002dakrtbydcruser_3.jpg
 
rumblefish360 said:
4 inch crank stroker w/zero deck pistons and a closed chambered head, (Edel. Magnum aluminum's prefured) with a Huges or equal like cam, _ O.D. auto trans and 3.91 gear on not more than a 27 inch tire. This gear ratio in overdrive will feel like a 2.6979 ratio.

Keep the cam smallish in duration and hi on lift. (I'd look at a cam no more than 220 intake duration @ .050 an LA cam with Magnum heads would fit this bill well.) The 904 O.D. version uses less power to operate, but I wouldn't worry so much if I didn't get it and had to use the 518. The later OE tranny's are lock up tranny's and there are stall converters for these units. The lock up will add mileage.
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I agree, probably gonna need a little more duration but that 220-240 mark is where you want to be.

now he said something about a turbo, i use to build alot of forced induction engines, you can definatly pull off low 12's, probably more like 11's with the proper forced induction set up with a intercooler and still get the gas milage your looking for. plumbing for a turbo is not gonna be cheap unless your a welder fabricator. supercharger store sells bolt on procharger kits, it'll cost you a little bit but it might be the best route. open up your ring end gaps on the engine you have, bolt one on and see what happens.
 
Mid 12's and streetable, Hmmmm. I got that. pump gas 383, 300 converrtor, 4.10 gears (with 28 inch tall tires). Still get 10-12mpg if I try hard. Good for everything but the freeway. And when the need be, there's the chemical supercharger in the trunk that throws in another 150hp. Now if I had a smallblock and the 518 trans was available,.......we'd go that way in a heartbeat.
 
By dropping the milage, it can be done on 340 inches. but you'll need a lot more gear for low 12s. "in the 12s" is easy with a 340. If you want to have highway gearing (which for me means 3.23s with a 26" tire) and a reasonable stall speed then the best way I can think of is a 4" arm. You con't need big heads, or monster anything. The Performer intake would work, but it is small IMO. It can be done reasonably, be run on pump fuel. Doesnt need to turn rpms for efficiency, and bolts right in with existing cooling, fuel, an trans. The difference in streetability and drivability between a 12.90s car, and a 12.0s car, is very substantial with a 340. Like from pump gas and medium sized cam to mixed gas and more gear and convertor with a bigger cam. The diference between a 12.80s 416 and a 12.0s 416 is 10 degrees more in the camshaft and good tires. Most 4" engines I have built have traction issues in multi-use cars. To me, that's impressive. A basic 4" kit, a stage one port on your heads, or better yet LA version RPMS, and a cam with 250°@.050 or a little larger if iron heads are used, and you'll have an engine that idles under 800, runs a 2500 tight convertor, and runs mid 12s spinning partially into second with drag radials a 3.23s.
 
Could you explain a "basic 4" kit". I assume you mean stroker kit but details would help.

Also, my current Weind Action Plus 8007 dual plane intake is a spread bore design. I'm using an adapter plate with a holley 3310VS. I've been told the adapter plate is robbing power and just switching to a spreadbore Edelbrock carb or maybe a different sqare bore intake could make a big difference in power and economy. Ideas or suggestions???

Also, I'm not sure what the compression is on the current setup but it idles fine at 750rpm and pulls 10" of vacuum. I'm gonna put the compression guage on it and get some cranking pressure reading and report back.
 
watchdoc said:
Could you explain a "basic 4" kit". I assume you mean stroker kit but details would help.

Also, my current Weind Action Plus 8007 dual plane intake is a spread bore design. I'm using an adapter plate with a holley 3310VS. I've been told the adapter plate is robbing power and just switching to a spreadbore Edelbrock could make a big difference in power and economy. Ideas or suggestions???

Also, I'm not sure what the compression is on the current setup but it idles fine at 750rpm and pulls 10" of vacuum. I'm gonna put the compression guage on it and get some cranking pressure reading and report back.
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I would stay away from spread bore carbs no matter what brand.
I don't think your loosing any power with that adapter unless it has smaller bores than the carb. That manifold should go on a stock motor and an rpm,ld340, air gap, should go on your 340. Go single plane if you have the cam and gears.
 
The "Basic 4 inch kit" is indeed a ref to the stroker route.

I'm with 3404spdVal on the spacer for the carb issue, your not looseing power. It's a non issue item.

On the spreadbore carb, the T-Q is a bit of a trick to get right and parts for and the Q-J is also in the same trick to get right, but parts are easier to get.
Bottom line is what ever carb your OK in fussing with is what you should use.
 
local mopar guy here is selling an RPM performer intake and a 800 cfm TQ for $150. Both are less than a year old and the TQ was new not rebuilt. He's also got a set of 2.02 X heads for $500. You guys think these would be good deals for my goals?

Apparently, he just went the stroker/ aluminum head route on his 360.
 
I'm looking for a similar result for my 71 swinger, but I'm looking at it a different way.

12.0s (and all drag racing) are all about hook, rather than power. If you want to do it on pure muscle, you're going to need an insane amount of power. Horsepower costs fuel mileage, and $$$.

To run that fast you need readily attainable power and a 1.60 60' time. Any good performance calculator is going to tell you that at 3100 pounds, you only need approx 350hp at the motor to run the number. Slicks will probably be required. I've built cars and attained those results before and I just can't believe it takes more power to make Mopars run the same.

To me that says good shocks, struts, springs, and cutting weight wherever possible and practical. A transbrake will help a lot, and that GER converter is a millstone around your neck. I'd highly recommend a custom from Lenny at www.ultimateconverter.com.

I'd suggest aluminum wheels (forged, like Welds rather than cast like Summit's). If you can't relocate the battery, get a light one. Ditch the power steering if you've got it. Electric fan. Fiberglass hood if you can swing it. etc.

I got rid of the AC on my car, and that was worth over 50 lbs off the front end. It'll be hotter in the summer, but its against the rules to cruise a hardtop with the windows up anyways.

I'd recommend the Edelbrock Magnum heads. It's 50 lbs off of car (in the front even), and the smaller, modern, combustion chamber will make more power and resist detonation. That pretty much leaves you with the RPM air-gap, or sending the heads to hughes to be drilled for the old-timey intakes. I'd recommend a late model 5.9 shortblock as well, given the added cubes, not to mention the vastly better ring package, and hydraulic roller camshaft.

Don't forget a good oil pan, as windage is a serious horsepower killer when your car starts to hook.

I'd seriously recommend a Holley carb over the others. Anything else is just giving away horsepower.

If you want to know for sure if its possible. Gimme till next summer as I"m working on it right now. LOL!

Steve
 
I was in the same boat a couple years ago. In talking with my engine guy "your better off buying what you want once". I wanted to build a stroker but it wasnt in the budget along with the ede heads and rpm air gap, holley 4150 hp dbp. So I ended up buying the heads, intake carb, and a new cam and picked up over 100hp for my 360. Everything I bought can be used when i can afford to build the stroker. Same thing with the tranny. From what I have heard it cost a crap load to build a A518 to withstand 500 plus hp (yes thats right small block stroker 500 plus hp) The gearvendors kit is a no brainer!

So my thoughts are if you cant afford to build the stroker (right now) Bolt on some ede heads get a new cam intake carb, gears. Save up for the gearvendors kit and chuck the duece and cars passing while your driving 48 mph down the freeway!

And if they want to play just know that your right in the power zone for a 50 to 100mph burst of mopar sickness
 
Hey Everyone, after years of bracket racing my dart, I'm doing more cruising and car shows now so my goal is a pump gas cruiser that runs low 12's.
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guess you have to define cruiser better. my 360 ran 12.17 on super pump gas and i drove it on numerous 2+ hour highway cruises. now it only got about 8 mpg and even with tall tires it would be screaming at 65 mph. but the car did it time and time again. was a real simple combo too. 360,eddy heads, 508/292 mp cam, dynamic 9 1/2" converter,904 trans and a 8 3/4 rear with 3:91 gears. i constantly bitched i wanted a better cruiser. then when i finally hurt that 360 i installed a stock 74 360 and put my rpm intake and headers on it along with a stock converter and a 2:94 gear and love driving the car more now then i have in years. i can cruise at 80 mph at under 3000 rpm. the car got 16 mpg on the way to carlisle and hopefully will get a little better then that now that i put a better suited carb on it. so it really depends what you consider a cruiser.
 
By cruising I mean, sunday drives, car shows, driving back and forth to tracks a several hours away. Still only 2-3 thousand miles per year.

Well, it sounds like my best bet (and likely cheapest) it to buy a stroker kit for my 340 and combine that with either an overdrive 518 or gear vendors overdrive for my 727. I thought about ordering a stroker crate motor and then selling my 340 to offset some of the cost but with a stroker crate at $6k plus and my mild 340 only worth $600-$800, it's a big expense.

In the mean time, I'll install the dynamic converter and TTI headers and establish a new baseline to work from.

Can you guys help me lay out the expense of the stroker parts. Who sells good kits ect..

costs for....

stroker kit
intake
new carb
headers
heads
cam

new ring and pinion
built 518 cost vs gear vendors cost
driveshaft ( I guess mine can be cut down)
 
Your drive shaft can be cut down easy enuff. The OD tranny is better IMO than a gear vendors OD unit that costs 3x's the price of a fuly rebuilt/worked up trans and converter.

costs for.... This is homework best done yourself. Start at Jegs and then summit, Manciniracing.com, just keep fishing around

intake ........seriously speaking, I'd do a RPM or equal.
new carb ...What ever carb you go with, it just has to be one your OK to work on yourself.
headers.....the tti's are all your going to need.
heads.......The OE heads are capable of propelling you into the 12's easy.
cam......... Besides the one I mention earlier, the duration should be speced for the RPM range your driving in and keep in mind the OD ratio when doing so. Remember, those 3.91's in OD are going to drop a good bit to 2.69. That gear ratio isn't going to like a cam duration (@.050) of 244 while chuging along the hwy under 3,000 rpm's.

Do some searching on line for pricing. Great way to kill some time.
 
68 HEMI GTS said:
I agree, probably gonna need a little more duration but that 220-240 mark is where you want to be.

now he said something about a turbo, i use to build alot of forced induction engines, you can definatly pull off low 12's, probably more like 11's with the proper forced induction set up with a intercooler and still get the gas milage your looking for. supercharger store sells bolt on procharger kits, it'll cost you a little bit but it might be the best route.
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I kept the cam a bit small-due to the O.D. gea ratio he'd end up in. But I sooooo missed the word TURBO there. That is a good way to go about making power.
I want to do a bolt on pro charger kit one day ... the pipe dreaming continues.........theres allways hope.
 
no forced induction, i have several turbo cars already and I wanna keep this car all american muscle. The reference to a 2JZ swap was more of a joke than anything else.

Rumble, so I should just keep my stock 1.88 J heads and use a stroker short block? I figured the heads would be really be holding me back at that point in terms of power and efficiency.
 
I use Mancini for the kits i use. I have my shop do the balancing, and i clean,a ssemble, and run them. Costs will vary, I really like Rumbles advice of "do the shopping yourself." For a mild 4" engine, the RPM Air Gap, and a Holly 770 Stret Avenger Vacuum Sec. carb is what I spec. With a small port head (any iron, ported or not, and stock port Edelbrocks) a cam of 250°@.050 will out pull a 440 from 1500rpm. So OD and gearing becomes irrelevant. using the moparts calculator, the engine that just cost $5800 would propel your car at 3100 pounds to 11.70s. That's a mild 422(340+.060 and 4" stroke) with ported (by me) ion heads and a small-for-the-stroke hydraulic (248° @ .050 int, 258° @ .050 exh) cam. On pump 91, and with 3.23 gears. With stock heads and off the shelf pistons, you can do the same thing for about $900 less. And that's carb to oil pan. New carb, old oil pan ;)
 
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