Cylinder head dyno shoot out

Any interest in a dyno shoot out of a few popular SBM heads?

  • Yes

    Votes: 131 97.8%

  • No

    Votes: 3 2.2%
  • Total voters
    134
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Newbomb Turk said:
Did the truth hurt your feelings?

So let me get this straight. In posts 301 and 305 you are making the case FOR buying the best hear to start with, but when I show the cost isn’t as much as the whiners claim it is you disagree?

Got it.
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You're missing a big part of the equation that is a lot of guys already have the standard La parts and now you're replacing them all making a simple head swap . Right... I wish I could throw money at my project like that but for me it's not in the cards. And we haven't even talked about porting yet, to Port a set of W-2 cast iron heads to even get them close to their potential well I think I made the point ching ching ching ching ching ching
 
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Dart Frog said:
You're missing a big part of the equation that is a lot of guys already have the standard La parts and now you're replacing them all making a simple head swap . Right... I wish I could throw money at my project like that but for me it's not in the cards.
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Right. In a perfect world, we'd all have top of the line parts and not have to worry about the cost but it's an imperfect world at best. Do what you can with what you have.

There's no argument here anyway, we're all on the same team, let's not get hung up on irrelevant BS. No offset heads are being used for the test anyway so it's a moot point.

Perhaps that could be the next round - testing the winner of the standard head shootout with offset rocker heads.
 
Dart Frog said:
You're missing a big part of the equation that is a lot of guys already have the standard La parts and now you're replacing them all making a simple head swap . Right... I wish I could throw money at my project like that but for me it's not in the cards.
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You can’t sell what you have?

You do realize that ALL exhaust rockers are the same don’t you? So you can buy just the intake rockers

They takes the same pistons.

You can sell the intake manifold to help pay for the W2 manifold.

I always hear excuses why it can’t be done.

But guys have no problems buying a Speed Master or Edeljunker heads and then spending big money to port a head that will never equal a W2.

All over some rocker arms?

Again, this is exactly why Chrysler guys suck hind tit on everything.

It wasn’t that long ago guys were on here talking about an AFR head. I’m not comprehending WTF an AFR head with non offset rockers is going to do.

But I clearly recall guys saying “the Chevy guys have so many head options and we have so few.

Since I’ve been doing this a long time I’ll tell you that all those 23 degree standard port heads are the same. The very same.

So what do you get for all the options? NOTHING.

If you building a SBC of 350 CID or bigger you need the biggest port you can get because the Chevy is intake port limited.

In reality and in fact, chevy head options are just as limited as the Chrysler.

And they don’t have the W2 option.

If you don’t have the stomach to spend for a set of rockers than don’t do it.

But don’t ***** about not having options because you have as many options as a Chevy guy.

And IF I was buying headsets today and I wasn’t doing a W2 I’d only buy one head. There is only one option and that’s the Bloomer head.

I would not waste my time with anything else. All these 400 plus inch engines are so head/induction limited it’s insane.
 
rmchrgr said:
Right. In a perfect world, we'd all have top of the line parts and not have to worry about the cost but it's an imperfect world at best. Do what you can with what you have.

There's no argument here anyway, we're all on the same team, let's not get hung up on irrelevant BS. No offset heads are being used for the test anyway so it's a moot point.

Perhaps that could be the next round - testing the winner of the standard head shootout with offset rocker heads.
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Why waste the time and money to do that?

That’s a serious waste of time and money.
 
I bought 2 W2 single plane intakes used right here in perfect shape for less than one brand new rpm airgap. Just sayin
 
Offset vs non offset rockers. Cost vs performance would be a great subject worthy of it's own thread. Tim has some validity points and so do others. Maybe he can start that thread.
 
Dude - noone is doubting the idea but there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

Maybe there is a segment of guys that just don’t know the difference, don’t care or maybe are just simply not aware of the choice. Should they all just shitcan their whole top end and go right to Indy 360-1s?

I stand by my reasoning that if you’re going to invest in the offset rocker stuff it’s kinda pointless to handicap them with garden-variety parts. They represent a commitment to an entire combination, it’s not just the rocker arms.

Case in point- My W2 340 was OK but you certainly don’t need them go 12.0. The guy that built the engine used garden-variety parts; heavy TRW pistons and a Mopar .528 solid cam. It was a street/strip car. OK it had H.S. rockers and a Victor W2 intake but it was untouched. Hughes 10” 3,500 converter, FMVB 904 and a 4:30 gear. The whole thing was right out of the MP recipe book and it went 12.0 like it was supposed to.

At the time I pulled that motor, I considered the options available which at the time were less plentiful than now. The CNC RHS were a good deal. The W2s would have cost at least the same or more to re-do. I could not afford to set the world on fire at that point in my life so the standard set up made the most sense to me. I sold the W2 stuff as a package at Carlisle for enough that the RHS didn’t cost me a dime. Had I run them like I wanted to, the RHS would have been way faster than the W2s.

I’m sure you will find a way to call me an idiot but I’m being honest and am speaking from direct experience so YRMV.
 
You guy's should start a new thread to debate offset rockers etc..
 
TT5.9mag said:
I bought 2 W2 single plane intakes used right here in perfect shape for less than one brand new rpm airgap. Just sayin
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Can you do that at anytime though? That's the problem. Deals on the W2 stuff can be had but some of them are sour (worn out crap) and they aren't on every corner, or a phone call away like Summit or other suppliers are. I'm all about hunting for deals, but the question is why the pushback on offset rocker heads and the real availability and cost is part of it. Once all those W2 deals get snapped up, you are left with the Indy 360 stuff which is great, but not inexpensive at all.
 
PRH said:
I’ve had a few heads where unshrouding the intake valve created some high lift flow problems.

For me, it seems like if the high lift flow stability is iffy, moving the chamber wall away from the valve hasn’t shown to improve that.
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When Valley performance did my motor( it had Eddie heads then) he insisted on unshrouding the intakes. He knew my cam( one I still use) was only 565 gross lift. He said the heads were done after 550 lift. So it worked In my favor for what I had going on at the time.
He said what he did would definitely show up on the time slip
 
Dart Frog said:
Do I agree with most of this statement but it seems to me the term hardcore racer is somewhat vague, anyone approaching Max effort on a small block Mopar would never begin with a standard location push rod head would they?
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Depends on what you mean by max effort. 99% of us on here who race are bracket racers. We all like going fast, but wallet and other concerns come into play too.
We have already seen there is a non offset production style head available that is capable of supporting close to 700 horsepower. Real world track proven.
That’s plenty of power for the vast majority on here. Easily.
 
gzig5 said:
Can you do that at anytime though? That's the problem. Deals on the W2 stuff can be had but some of them are sour (worn out crap) and they aren't on every corner, or a phone call away like Summit or other suppliers are. I'm all about hunting for deals, but the question is why the pushback on offset rocker heads and the real availability and cost is part of it. Once all those W2 deals get snapped up, you are left with the Indy 360 stuff which is great, but not inexpensive at all.
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Let’s have a discussion in another thread. I think the push is to keep this one track for @NC Engine Builder
 
Yeah, I think at this point we will just start a new thread when we get ready to dyno test, 14 pages is probably enough for everyone to figure out what were doing.
 
Dart Frog said:
You're missing a big part of the equation that is a lot of guys already have the standard La parts and now you're replacing them all making a simple head swap . Right... I wish I could throw money at my project like that but for me it's not in the cards. And we haven't even talked about porting yet, to Port a set of W-2 cast iron heads to even get them close to their potential well I think I made the point ching ching ching ching ching ching
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Most everything I have is LA.
Changing to W2 wouldn't be in the card's.
And I can say Most is Pre August 29 2005. We had a major hurricane ont that here, so we have Pre Katrina stuff and Post lol.
My Edlebrock heads are Pre 2005, so are my ported 202/160 J heads. My X Block buid originaly had the ported J on it. But bought Comando heads, have ready to run U, J, O and ⬛️ ones. Just sitting waiting.
Some of us just have to much old crop we invested in and heald on to.
Gave away 2002 1 ton van with 360 mag. it needed transmission but ran 100%
 
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340six said:
Most everything I have is LA.
Changing to W2 wouldn't be in the card's.
And I can say Most is Pre August 29 2005. We had a major hurricane ont that here, so we have Pre Katrina stuff and Post lol.
My Edlebrock heads are Pre 2005, so are my ported 202/160 J heads. My X Block buid originaly had the ported J on it. But bought Comando heads, have ready to run U, J, O and ⬛️ ones. Just sitting waiting.
Some of us just have to much old crop we invested in and heald on to.
Gave away 2002 1 ton van with 360 mag. it needed transmission but ran 100%
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Let me know when you’re ready to give those ported J heads away lololol
 
Earlie A said:
So far we have ProMaxx 185 Shockers, Trick Flow 190 and Bloomers. The Shockers vs the TF's should be an interesting comparison. I would love to find a pair of PBR heads to try against the Bloomers. I think many on this forum would enjoy that. So if you know of a pair, let's see what we can work out. Otherwise, there may be another set of heads in the mix.

I too would love to see all kinds of different things tested, but time and money will be a (the) limiting factor. NC Engine Builder is putting together a 408 short block. I'm sure he will share details and probably pictures as he is able.

For manifolds we have a ported Victor 340 and a ported Super Victor. Time will probably only allow one of the two to be used.

Cam is TBD. Talking with Jim at Racer Brown.
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How about the Racer Brown ST21 grind?
 
Thanks for the update. That cam is similar to the solid roller in my BPE head 416" - 263/268 @ .050", .665"/.659" (.4165"/.4120 lobe) but mine is on 104º. I'm also using 1.6 rockers.

Really looking forward to seeing the results on this test!
 
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