Dissapointing performance

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Post number 350

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Don't you guys realize he's supposed to be in the Hudson Super Six forum with his Duster?

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When dealing with complex and important things its good to hear opinions from multiple people. Not just one or two. Then I can make my own conclusion based on my own and other peoples opinions.

Now we know why your engine was built so well in the first place. Would you like to race against Jeff Lutz someday with the intention of winning? Because I'd like to place some heavy bets on that.

I hope all your Finnish brethren aren't as obtuse and hard headed as you. May your Duster always be the slowest POS across the pond.

Rusty, you do realize that "Welcome to Finland" spells "WTF." This fellow just won the grand prize for that.

Its frustrating to tell same things many times.

ROFLMFAO. Now you get it!

You must drive 100 yards at a time, because my junk is up to temp a mile down the road.

DusterGuy's junk hasn't been hot in years.

-Kurt

P.S.: I'm in LOVE with this thread. Made me laugh harder than I possibly thought I could after a lousy day at work.
 
I bellieve that you have experience in things you said. I respect your opinions but I still disagree with you how headers work.
Ok let me try to break this up a little...
*Click the click to expand button to see my Editing*

When exhaust (You realize that the intake valve opens before the exhaust valve completely closes) valve closes then there is exhaust gas traveling through header/primaries. The inertia of gas makes low pressure/vacuum to the combustion chamber and that low pressure/vacuum suck new air/gas mixture from intake to combustion chamber.(If the exhaust valve is closed....how will it pull "suck new air/gas mixture from the intake to the combustion chamber?????) That's most important thing how headers work/makes scavenging effect.(there is two different thing going on here and you're mixing them together)(#1 Scavenging and #2 sound wave timing/tuning) If you are dealing with 4 cylinder engine or flat plane V8 like Ferrari, then you can take advance of primaries lenght tuning.(Primaries length tuning is possible from a V2 to a flat 12+ engines that are 4 strokes)! That is another thing how headers can make scavenging effect and it works different way than what I described. There is also collector length tuning thing but I don't understand it enough that I could talk about it.
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David Vizard takes about both of these things and you should go re read it again.
#1 SCAVENGING
this is merge collector(remember the cars merging onto a freeway?)job to help keep the exhaust flowing. One high pulse (exhaust valve just opened) and gas travaling at high speed exit into the collector were another pulse is just about done(exhaust valve almost closed, intake valve starting to open) High speed gas keep the slowing flow going just a little longer causing the exhaust to pull on the intake charge for that overlap period. HOW EVER! If there is excessive back pressure, the gas flow stops! and then back up into the combustion chamber through the exhaust before it can close and stop this. Now you have inert or unburnable air in the combustion chamber. Now less burnable air/fuel can get in(vary low power stroke.(you can have no back pressure problems and have the "wrong cam" for you application and still get this same situation. this is called "REVERSION" OR EXHAUST GAS REVERSION!

Pulse/soundwave tuning
Now turned length header can be made that when the exhaust valve close there is a pulse or sound way that runs to the end of the pipe, bounces back to the exhaust valve and then back to the end of the pipe. IF YOU GET EVERYTHING JUST RIGHT, AND THE EXHAUST VALVE OPEN JUST AS THAT WAVE LEAVES THE VALVE HEADING TO THE END OF THE PIPE/HEADER YOU GET A SUCTION EFFECT TO HELP PULL ON IT.

NOTE: When Mr Vizard is talking about this he is NOT talking about the Exhaust pulse/wave! He is talking about the intake wave that help push more air then the piston can pull.
NOW! Go reread Mr Vizards article before you try and find fault in my explanation!
I know you won't, but it was worth a try:poke::D
 
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David Vizard takes about both of these things and you should go re read it again.
#1 SCAVENGING
this is merge collector(remember the cars merging onto a freeway?)job to help keep the exhaust flowing. One high pulse (exhaust valve just opened) and gas travaling at high speed exit into the collector were another pulse is just about done(exhaust valve almost closed, intake valve starting to open) High speed gas keep the slowing flow going just a little longer causing the exhaust to pull on the intake charge for that overlap period. HOW EVER! If there is excessive back pressure, the gas flow stops! and then back up into the combustion chamber through the exhaust before it can close and stop this. Now you have inert or unburnable air in the combustion chamber. Now less burnable air/fuel can get in(vary low power stroke.(you can have no back pressure problems and have the "wrong cam" for you application and still get this same situation. this is called "REVERSION" OR EXHAUST GAS REVERSION!

Pulse/soundwave tuning
Now turned length header can be made that when the exhaust valve close there is a pulse or sound way that runs to the end of the pipe, bounces back to the exhaust valve and then back to the end of the pipe. IF YOU GET EVERYTHING JUST RIGHT, AND THE EXHAUST VALVE OPEN JUST AS THAT WAVE LEAVES THE VALVE HEADING TO THE END OF THE PIPE/HEADER YOU GET A SUCTION EFFECT TO HELP PULL ON IT.

NOTE: When Mr Vizard is talking about this he is NOT talking about the Exhaust pulse/wave! He is talking about the intake wave that help push more air then the piston can pull.
NOW! Go reread Mr Vizards article before you try and find fault in my explanation!
I know you won't, but it was worth a try:poke::D

Exactly.
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He must have skipped that section...
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Since his new heads flow better(reduced restriction) they allow even more reversion to occur which increases the amount of inert or unburnable air in the combustion chamber when compared to his old heads. This is causing the "increased" loss of power he is experiencing now.
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Alright I've got to tell ya this your setup is a joke. get rid of the rpm for an single plenum torker or torker II maybe If you can find a weiand excelarator then a 1-2" spacer something like a wilson four hole. Throw the carb in the junk pile and get a Summit 750 It has annular boosters or the new speed demon 725. Get yourself some 1 3/4 long tube headers with 2.5- 2.750 pipe oh don't forget the x pipe, a 2800-3000 stall converter and If you don't want to go with the 4.10 step down to a 3.73 or even a 3.55 with a way taller tire which will give you more wheel speed. Set everything where it should be timing, carb, rockers, etc. and I put money down that you will get down to the high 12's low 13's.
 
Alright I've got to tell ya this your setup is a joke. get rid of the rpm for an single plenum torker or torker II maybe If you can find a weiand excelarator then a 1-2" spacer something like a wilson four hole. Throw the carb in the junk pile and get a Summit 750 It has annular boosters or the new speed demon 725. Get yourself some 1 3/4 long tube headers with 2.5- 2.750 pipe oh don't forget the x pipe, a 2800-3000 stall converter and If you don't want to go with the 4.10 step down to a 3.73 or even a 3.55 with a way taller tire which will give you more wheel speed. Set everything where it should be timing, carb, rockers, etc. and I put money down that you will get down to the high 12's low 13's.
I almost forgot start to learn on how to read a spark plug as well as indexing your plugs. the right ignition system helps a lot.
 
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David Vizard takes about both of these things and you should go re read it again.
#1 SCAVENGING
this is merge collector(remember the cars merging onto a freeway?)job to help keep the exhaust flowing. One high pulse (exhaust valve just opened) and gas travaling at high speed exit into the collector were another pulse is just about done(exhaust valve almost closed, intake valve starting to open) High speed gas keep the slowing flow going just a little longer causing the exhaust to pull on the intake charge for that overlap period. HOW EVER! If there is excessive back pressure, the gas flow stops! and then back up into the combustion chamber through the exhaust before it can close and stop this. Now you have inert or unburnable air in the combustion chamber. Now less burnable air/fuel can get in(vary low power stroke.(you can have no back pressure problems and have the "wrong cam" for you application and still get this same situation. this is called "REVERSION" OR EXHAUST GAS REVERSION!

Pulse/soundwave tuning
Now turned length header can be made that when the exhaust valve close there is a pulse or sound way that runs to the end of the pipe, bounces back to the exhaust valve and then back to the end of the pipe. IF YOU GET EVERYTHING JUST RIGHT, AND THE EXHAUST VALVE OPEN JUST AS THAT WAVE LEAVES THE VALVE HEADING TO THE END OF THE PIPE/HEADER YOU GET A SUCTION EFFECT TO HELP PULL ON IT.

NOTE: When Mr Vizard is talking about this he is NOT talking about the Exhaust pulse/wave! He is talking about the intake wave that help push more air then the piston can pull.
NOW! Go reread Mr Vizards article before you try and find fault in my explanation!
I know you won't, but it was worth a try:poke::D
That can be way how merge collector works, but I dont know enough of them.

I took davids book and re read the whole chapter of exhaust/headers. Im not going to write it down here, but I can tell you that there its been said how headers work and I dont have to change my statement at all. Inertia of rapidly moving exhaust gas makes vacuum to the combustuon chamber and that vacuum puls new air/gas mixture from intake that is started to open.
 
I bellieve that you have experience in things you said. I respect your opinions but I still disagree with you how headers work.

When exhaust valve closes then there is exhaust gas traveling trought header/primaries. The inertia of gas makes low pressure/vacuum to the combustion chamber and that low pressure/vacuum suck new air/gas mixture from intake to combustion chamber. Thats most important thing how headers work/makes scavenging effect.

So exactly what I said....

The exhaust creates the scavenging affect. Which HELPS evacuate the cylinder of burnt gases. Cam overlap, collector length, primary tube size and length. Among so many other things help. But it ONLY HELPS. The majority of the vacuum that pulls in air/gas is created by the piston on the intake stroke. That's Otto engine 101. You really should know that. Scavenging is basically cleaning the cylinder before you draw fresh air in it. Ideally scavenging would pull out alllll the exhaust, and just start to pull a little of fresh air/fuel so that the cylinder is only compressing all new fresh air and fuel. That's scavenging.

Read Cudafevers post. He goes into some detail about it (excellent post btw cudafever). More than I think you can/are willing to understand. And more than I am willing to try and explain to you. I could sit you down for 8 hours and go into extreme detail about exhaust/scavenging/cam overlap/quench/combustion burn rates/timing and its affect on exhaust/exhaust temperature indications/dual vs single pattern cams and their exhaust impact/etc/etc/etc. And still not give you 1/4 of the education you need.

I don't know what part of my post you didn't understand. But it seems like all of it. Cause you tell me you disagree with me how headers work. Then basically repeat back exactly what I said. You need to really read and comprehend the posts here. I'm starting to think that's a large part of the problem.

If you are dealing with 4 cylinder engine or flat plane V8 like Ferrari, then you can take advance of primaries lenght tuning. That is another thing how headers can make scavenging effect and it works different way than what I desribled. There is also collector length tuning thing but I dont understand it enough that I could talk about it.

I would love for you to tell me what the difference is between a 4 cylinder (which is basically a single bank V8) or flat plane (boxer style) VS a V8 exhaust. Exhaust flows out no matter what way the engine faces. Upside down turn it around. Exhaust still flows. Ask me how I know (I also have aircraft experience, including stunt/redbull planes).

You don't know enough about collector length tuning. Because you don't know enough about headers/exhaust. Period.
 
I almost forgot start to learn on how to read a spark plug as well as indexing your plugs. the right ignition system helps a lot.
Thank you for your opinions. I understand plugs so well that I know black plugs work as good as any plug. When I first fired up my engine after rebuild with white beautiful plugs, the car worked same way as it does now with black plugs. Have you readed the link what I posted about spark plug basics?
 
So exactly what I said....

The exhaust creates the scavenging affect. Which HELPS evacuate the cylinder of burnt gases. Cam overlap, collector length, primary tube size and length. Among so many other things help. But it ONLY HELPS. The majority of the vacuum that pulls in air/gas is created by the piston on the intake stroke. That's Otto engine 101. You really should know that. Scavenging is basically cleaning the cylinder before you draw fresh air in it. Ideally scavenging would pull out alllll the exhaust, and just start to pull a little of fresh air/fuel so that the cylinder is only compressing all new fresh air and fuel. That's scavenging.
No no and no. Take Wizards book and re read the exhaust chapter.
 
How about this. You learn how exhaust works.

I did 6 burnouts today. How many did you do? I bet I can guess right in one answer.
I did yesterday one, but today is morning here and I just waked up. Yesterday I installed new stiffer spring to distributor and car liked it. Now advance comes all in 2200rpm. I have also send email to PTC converters and I asked do they make new converter to me.

Today im going to do compression test to all cylinders.
 
I did yesterday one, but today is morning here and I just waked up. Yesterday I installed new stiffer spring to distributor and car liked it. Now advance comes all in 2200rpm. I have also send email PTC converters and I asked do they make new converter to me.

Good money after bad.
 
Isn't that advance to quick. To be all in by 2200 seems fast to me for a street car.
My car is like yours,but you have better heads, but mine doesn't fully advance till 3400 rpm.
 
Yes black plugs will work but that is it. black means your to fat on the mix and not burning your A/F mix. Your are literally burning your money (well not really If the plugs are black). I think your one of those dudes that can't take criticism about anything you do, It's like your feelings get hurt :(. You need to get some friends oh wait you probably don't have any because, they told you all the same stuff you have been told here, which you probably shot down as you have to everyone on this thread. I put money my 96 Jeep Grand Cherokee can take your Duster down. I've been taught to things by my pops 1 is the only bad question is the question that isn't asked and, 2 Never think you know everything. This is coming from a man that worked next to world renowned physicists and miester machinist, I say meister since thats what he called them. I guess you would call it humility.:BangHead: :mob:
 
I think it's obvious to everyone here and said at least once that the black plugs and short trips are washing his cylinders and ruining his ring sealing, damage, damage, damage, but he knows best.

My guess is that they all won't be 170 like #2, but I,m keeping my numbers, I just want to see an honest response.
 
Sorry to dissapoint you but today I made compression test to all cylinders and I drove car like 10 miles on medium load. After that ride I did compression test and I "readed" all plugs.

Compression test: 170,172,170,170,175,170,172,170. Very good results and even between cylinders.
Spark plug was coffee brown + very little black carbon on it. Like I said when car is driven higer load and longer time, then the plug shows its "real color".
I can upload pic of compression meter and plugs if you dont want to bellieve what I said.
 
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