DOES THE HDK SUSPENSION K-MEMBER HANDLE BETTER THAN A T-BAR SUSPENSION?

[HemiDenny]

New bump steer issues? The both used the same LCA and LBJ, and just to be clear, the LBJ also includes the steering arm. If they are the same, how was bump steer affected?

But no argument that they weren’t building autox killers. The comment about scrub radius was because it’s the only geometry that would have changed. Not that I thought they cared about.



Sounds like you are the one making things up.

here, since you like to read.....

Swapping A & B Body Disc-Brake Spindles - Debated Usage

 

[HemiDenny]

I think there are some that have done the same with a COC. Just spent a ton of money on a full kit and now it handles better. Wink, wink.

I would agree, but I don't.

reason is, since they did not build it for their own purpose and have no clue as to why it was built in the first place. They are only tasked with marketing it.

 

[NC Engine Builder]

I agree.....so for clarity, is your $10K challenge on an autox or the tri-oval?

I just might have an extra $10k layin' around if it's an autox challenge (you drive your torsion bar car , Joe wheels his Duster).....just don't tell my wife about the extra $10K layin' around.....we good?

You allready declined my offer WAY earlier in the thread. Now your guy wins a parking lot race around plastic cones and suddenly you think your mr. handling expert all the sudden. Your on here showing your ignorance in performance handling, while YOU are the guy using the site to try to push your project you sell. You sir, can kindly piss off. Mopar to ya'

 

[TT5.9mag]

I wasn't even gonna respond to this, as it’s absolutely ridiculous, but, I AM a glutton for punishment. Are you REALLY trying to say that zipping around in a flat parking lot with no walls, and no other cars, is somehow comparable to door to door oval track racing? Tell me you have never driven a FAST car in competition without telling me. How fast do you guys go? 50? 60 mph? What's the worst that can happen with "things happening so fast" at that speed, you gonna run over a rubber cone? Sheesh man.

Wholeheartedly agree, absolutely this has to be taken in to consideration. I’ll give an example. We were racing at Circuit of the Americas a few years ago. In the pre race driver meeting they explained to us that F1 would be there the following weekend and if we had an “off” and hit the barrier that it costs $10,000 PER FOOT (!!) of barrier that we hit. And we were responsible to pay that day before exiting the facility. That’s real **** right there. I was 3 cars behind a fox body mustang that went off and hit 3 feet of barrier. My go pro just missed it. He destroyed his car and had to pony up $30,000 that day. On another weird note, Bruce (Kaitlin?) Jenner was there and won the Toyota arrive and drive race deal that same day. Fun facts.

 

[Trojmn]

, I'll say my limited experience with autocrossing newer sports cars has been that in the last decade or two they have really made it easier to do well.

I know i was seriously missing ABS last weekend. There's something to be said for all four brakes contributing max braking every time regardless of conditions/tire temps or bad habit.

 

[DionR]

here, since you like to read.....

Swapping A & B Body Disc-Brake Spindles - Debated Usage

Do you realize that those B-Body spindles you are talking about are the same ones we have been calling F-Body spindles?

And the factory never put those spindles on an A-Body, so arguing that they ignored a change in geometry or bump steer issues is bogus.

 

[DionR]

I know i was seriously missing ABS last weekend. There's something to be said for all four brakes contributing max braking every time regardless of conditions/tire temps or bad habit.

ABS seems to be the next big step. The big dogs in the vintage class(es?) at the Optima stuff are running retrofits or aftermarket kits.

One of the drives even commented to me in Vegas the first year I got to go that it was the biggest difference between the old cars and new cars, right after a guy blew a corner and slid off the track.

 

[junkyardhero]

i'm not wading into the merits of either or but a point of contention:

when Chrysler changed to the big bolt pattern on the A bodies in 73-74 by simple using (larger) off the shelf B body spindles, same upper control arm, same lower control arm, same pivot points....

ma mopar didn't just slam B body stuff onto an a-body. the spindle is different. the B-body UCA and LCA is clearly different, so i hope that's not what you were meaning. while the LCA remained the same (save for the swaybar pick up) the a-body UCA is different between small bolt and big bolt. it's not like they just took a small bolt unit a blew it out for the big joint.

Notice the hub (tires) stick out (after 73-74) almost 1" further per side after 73 making the rear track width narrower than the front width?

the track width only increased 3/8" on each side

 

[NC Engine Builder]

i'm not wading into the merits of either or but a point of contention:


ma mopar didn't just slam B body stuff onto an a-body. the spindle is different. the B-body UCA and LCA is clearly different, so i hope that's not what you were meaning. while the LCA remained the same (save for the swaybar pick up) the a-body UCA is different between small bolt and big bolt. it's not like they just took a small bolt unit a blew it out for the big joint.


the track width only increased 3/8" on each side

I didn't even want to address the fact that he is so clueless he thinks they stuck B body parts on a A body. They definitely didn't, and everyone EXCEPT denny knows the upper and low a arms are different lengths between A and B body. What a chest thumping clown. (Now my low level of class is showing)

 

[HemiDenny]

I didn't even want to address the fact that he is so clueless he thinks they stuck B body parts on a A body. They definitely didn't, and everyone EXCEPT denny knows the upper and low a arms are different lengths between A and B body. What a chest thumping clown. (Now my low level of class is showing)

the spindles changed....not the control arms other than the ball joint size. Read it again.

and yes, the track width difference is approx 7/8" per side from the pre 72 to the later. not 3/8"

here is from the article I posted earlier.....

So what are we to do? There's a fierce debate going on about the so-called B-Body spindle. This one spindle is actually used in all '73-and-up B-, F-, J-, M- and R-Body cars, which is a huge source for cheap disc brakes. Fifth Avenues and Diplomats are a common site in the junkyards, providing all the disc-brake spindles we could ever need. See the accompanying chart for a list of all the cars in this group.


full article.....
Swapping A & B Body Disc-Brake Spindles - Debated Usage

 

[HemiDenny]

Do you realize that those B-Body spindles you are talking about are the same ones we have been calling F-Body spindles?

And the factory never put those spindles on an A-Body, so arguing that they ignored a change in geometry or bump steer issues is bogus.

obviously ....not reading but relying on your own extensive memory / knowledge.

Swapping A & B Body Disc-Brake Spindles - Debated Usage

 

[junkyardhero]

just an fyi, you keep linking articles with wrong or outdated information; or at least concepts and statements that have been proven untrue in testing.

 

[HemiDenny]

You allready declined my offer WAY earlier in the thread. Now your guy wins a parking lot race around plastic cones and suddenly you think your mr. handling expert all the sudden. Your on here showing your ignorance in performance handling, while YOU are the guy using the site to try to push your project you sell. You sir, can kindly piss off. Mopar to ya'

BEEP>>>>BEEP>>>>>BEEEP

MAN!!!, you threw it in reverse so quick I hope you had your Hans on. I guess that S on your cape is not as big as you want me to believe. You may consider changing it to a (small) b anyway for blowhard.

I guess I missed your expiration date on your post? and what happened to you are so friggin' bad that you would just make a few suspension changes....haul it in WFO...and turn??????

Let me know when your statue arrives at Daytona, I'll bring the polish.

And this from the guy that tells me to be classy and doesn't rant...OK

 

[HemiDenny]

just an fyi, you keep linking articles with wrong or outdated information; or at least concepts and statements that have been proven untrue in testing.

I'll admit, while I was around in the 70s, my last 25 years, other than a few builds, I have mostly not dealt with OEM spindles.

Can you point me to a article that debunks it?

 

[junkyardhero]

I'll admit, while I was around in the 70s, my last 25 years, other than a few builds, I have mostly not dealt with OEM spindles.

Can you point me to a article that debunks it?

i was manifested in the late 70's but i've been dealing with OEM parts for the last 30 years.

magazines aren't going to publish an article correcting themselves.

bill reilly was one of the first to plot the taller FMJ spindle and debunk e-burgs claims in the article from way back-- the one that everybody refers to.

it's all been hashed and re-hashed here on the forum. be forewarned, you're not going to like some of the authors or some of the names & companies brought up in discussion.

 

[HemiDenny]

No problem, just looking for proof to debunk an article that I believed back up what I remember my experiences to be with the larger spindle.

I follow you and appreciate your extensive experience and knowledge

I'm not always right (ask my wife) If wrong, I admit it and try not to make the same mistake twice.(again....ask my wife)

 

[HemiDenny]

i was manifested in the late 70's but i've been dealing with OEM parts for the last 30 years.

magazines aren't going to publish an article correcting themselves.

bill reilly was one of the first to plot the taller FMJ spindle and debunk e-burgs claims in the article from way back-- the one that everybody refers to.

it's all been hashed and re-hashed here on the forum. be forewarned, you're not going to like some of the authors or some of the names & companies brought up in discussion.

Gotta admit, I do not read all the forums. Hard enough to keep up here, especially with all the luv.

 

[HemiDenny]

I do see the error i made.

I misread and thought the A body spindle was included in the text listed of what is the same as the B body....but in reality, the later A body only looks like the B body version.

My bad. Please forgive me. I'll try to do better but I wouldn't count on it. I'm old.

Denny

 

[NC Engine Builder]

BEEP>>>>BEEP>>>>>BEEEP

MAN!!!, you threw it in reverse so quick I hope you had your Hans on. I guess that S on your cape is not as big as you want me to believe. You may consider changing it to a (small) b anyway for blowhard.

I guess I missed your expiration date on your post? and what happened to you are so friggin' bad that you would just make a few suspension changes....haul it in WFO...and turn??????

Let me know when your statue arrives at Daytona, I'll bring the polish.

And this from the guy that tells me to be classy and doesn't rant...OK

Listen dickhead, I made a ******* PUBLIC call out for YOU or ANY of your customers running your suspension to put up 10k cash to outrun my 45 year old torsion bar street stock racecar, on a REAL racetrack, at equal weight, and on the same tire, and you folded like a cheap tent. Dont come back after you pussied out trying to act like I backed down. Your ignorance, is glowing like a neon light.

 

[HemiDenny]

Listen dickhead, I made a ******* PUBLIC call out for YOU or ANY of your customers running your suspension to put up 10k cash to outrun my 45 year old torsion bar street stock racecar, on a REAL racetrack, at equal weight, and on the same tire, and you folded like a cheap tent. Dont come back after you pussied out trying to act like I backed down. Your ignorance, is glowing like a neon light.

Ha ha ha....i knew you would blow a gasket. Try to stay off your rev limiter....it is not healthy.

 

[HemiDenny]

Listen dickhead, I made a ******* PUBLIC call out for YOU or ANY of your customers running your suspension to put up 10k cash to outrun my 45 year old torsion bar street stock racecar, on a REAL racetrack, at equal weight, and on the same tire, and you folded like a cheap tent. Dont come back after you pussied out trying to act like I backed down. Your ignorance, is glowing like a neon light.

I friggin told you.

Let me know when your statue shows up....I'll bring the polish.

 

[HemiDenny]

Listen dickhead, I made a ******* PUBLIC call out for YOU or ANY of your customers running your suspension to put up 10k cash to outrun my 45 year old torsion bar street stock racecar, on a REAL racetrack, at equal weight, and on the same tire, and you folded like a cheap tent. Dont come back after you pussied out trying to act like I backed down. Your ignorance, is glowing like

You should go back and re-read your post / rant.

That is not at all what you professed.

 

[NC Engine Builder]

I friggin told you.

Let me know when your statue shows up....I'll bring the polish.

You didn't tell me anything. You are a clown, who uses this site to try to sell your suspension setup. Did you notice I'm not trying to sell anything? I raced competitively and I know what it takes to be successful, and I did it with factory based stuff. YOU dont race anything, your just peddling your coil over suspension setup. How many races of any type on a oval, roadcourse, or wall mart parking lot have YOU won? I'd guess ZERO. You look like the guy who cruises to coffee and cars and sits in a lawn chair, hoping to sell something. "Sales rep vrs been there done that"

 

[HemiDenny]

I am impressed with your hardware and even more impressed you can keep your hot head cool long enough to win a main.

I'll bet you are a hoot to watch in the pits

 

[HemiDenny]

If i was worried about selling anything to this tuff crowd I wouldn't be calling out their BS.