1971dodgedart/6
Well-Known Member
thats my darts factory color..
Dyno'd the Magnum.
- Thread starter 423dak
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needsaresto
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Wow surprised no magnum haters showed up on this thread,but it's a good thing.
I'd go for the eddie every time. Made right here by our friends and neighbours and NOT by children in China.
There are a lot of old school engine builders who dont trust hypers. But the car manufacturers sure do..As mentioned you just need to stay away from detonation.
I'd go for the eddie every time. Made right here by our friends and neighbours and NOT by children in China.
There are a lot of old school engine builders who dont trust hypers. But the car manufacturers sure do..As mentioned you just need to stay away from detonation.
MRL Performance
Well-Known Member
We used to use them instead of the Eddy years ago, because the Eddys had such BAD core shift to them the ports would not line up at all. But now that Eddy has resolved this issue for the most part, we use them instead of the Crosswind.
MRL Performance
Well-Known Member
Here are the pics of the Eddy casting issues they HAD. They have fixed them for the most part, after calling them several times and sending them the intake back. I got a free one for my efforts and pointing it out to them. Of corse, they had "No idea there was anything wrong", Ok what ever you say.
Brad426
Well-Known Member
Guys, here the facts. I'm running a 408 based on a Magnum 5.9 block with Eddy Alu. heads. I wanted my engine to "breath" as best I could afford. When shopping for a intake it seemed that an Air Gap was the way to go for my application so I started shopping around for price and quality. I decided to go with the off Shore Copy from e-Bay because it was half the price. Now you asking yourself why would he do that after spending big $'s on Eddy Alu. Heads? Duh!
I bough the heads a few month earlier. The one Eddy advertises as "BOLT ON". I work in helicopter maintenance QA and "Bolt On" is a warning sign. I took my new in the box, "BOLT ON"" heads to a very high end race shop to have them inspected. I'm glad I did. If I had of BOLTED ON these heads there would of been a failure. They were full of swarf (machine particles/not clean) several of the valve guides were not within any specs. I was really upset and ask the machine shop for a break down report to go back to Eddy. The laughed and said I wasnt the only one and I wasn't going to get any place with the distributor or the manufacturer. They and customers had tried. BTW, I saw all the is first hand in the shop. Another $350.00 the sp called "BOLT ON" heads were as manufacture advertised acceptable.
Please stay with me. I'm getting the intake.
As I researched this more so I could sleep at night and BTW my wife is from China and a 2 PHD. Engineer. So I have some insight to "Off Shore" products. Eddy heads are not manufactured in the good old USA. They are assembled in the USA. There is a big difference boys. There is where the quality goes out the window. Asia is not know for it's quality control. Where ever Eddy has it's parts fabricated is poor, the final assembly mabe in USA. Giving the impression that we are supporting North American (USA/CANADIAN) industry. NOT!
I decided to test my theory. I bought a knock off air gap intake manifold from e-bay. When it arrived I took it to one of largest performance parts suppliers in this area where I have a buddy in sales who I spend a lot of money with. We put the Eddy next to the China intake. Well other than the outside finish and a few none technical differences I would even go as far as the say the casting mold have a few things in common. This does not surprise me. Look at other products like Yamaha, Honda. The OEM is always looking for profit. Its just business and if they can have it fabricated or parts thereof off shore for a 10th of the cost it make good business sense. But quality suffers. I suspect, as with other products USA manufacturers contract off shore companies to make things for them but, what happens is someone over there decides to make a knock off of the same or very close design. In aviation these are called break out parts. Bell Helicopters has a full time division fighting these parts because they do not received the same quality control. On the bench they look the same. Ive see many aircraft parts like this. Its my job to seek them out. Another story.
I took the off shore air gap to the machine shop for inspection. Guess what. It was no different in defects as the other hi end intake manifolds or Eddy Air Gaps the shop has seen in the past. Including stock cast manifolds. Go figure. Bolt on means BS. I cant stress enough to make sure you are getting what you pay for and read & understand the small print. My off shore air gap knock intake manifold is off is working just fine at about $200.00 less than an Eddy.
I bough the heads a few month earlier. The one Eddy advertises as "BOLT ON". I work in helicopter maintenance QA and "Bolt On" is a warning sign. I took my new in the box, "BOLT ON"" heads to a very high end race shop to have them inspected. I'm glad I did. If I had of BOLTED ON these heads there would of been a failure. They were full of swarf (machine particles/not clean) several of the valve guides were not within any specs. I was really upset and ask the machine shop for a break down report to go back to Eddy. The laughed and said I wasnt the only one and I wasn't going to get any place with the distributor or the manufacturer. They and customers had tried. BTW, I saw all the is first hand in the shop. Another $350.00 the sp called "BOLT ON" heads were as manufacture advertised acceptable.
Please stay with me. I'm getting the intake.
As I researched this more so I could sleep at night and BTW my wife is from China and a 2 PHD. Engineer. So I have some insight to "Off Shore" products. Eddy heads are not manufactured in the good old USA. They are assembled in the USA. There is a big difference boys. There is where the quality goes out the window. Asia is not know for it's quality control. Where ever Eddy has it's parts fabricated is poor, the final assembly mabe in USA. Giving the impression that we are supporting North American (USA/CANADIAN) industry. NOT!
I decided to test my theory. I bought a knock off air gap intake manifold from e-bay. When it arrived I took it to one of largest performance parts suppliers in this area where I have a buddy in sales who I spend a lot of money with. We put the Eddy next to the China intake. Well other than the outside finish and a few none technical differences I would even go as far as the say the casting mold have a few things in common. This does not surprise me. Look at other products like Yamaha, Honda. The OEM is always looking for profit. Its just business and if they can have it fabricated or parts thereof off shore for a 10th of the cost it make good business sense. But quality suffers. I suspect, as with other products USA manufacturers contract off shore companies to make things for them but, what happens is someone over there decides to make a knock off of the same or very close design. In aviation these are called break out parts. Bell Helicopters has a full time division fighting these parts because they do not received the same quality control. On the bench they look the same. Ive see many aircraft parts like this. Its my job to seek them out. Another story.
I took the off shore air gap to the machine shop for inspection. Guess what. It was no different in defects as the other hi end intake manifolds or Eddy Air Gaps the shop has seen in the past. Including stock cast manifolds. Go figure. Bolt on means BS. I cant stress enough to make sure you are getting what you pay for and read & understand the small print. My off shore air gap knock intake manifold is off is working just fine at about $200.00 less than an Eddy.
Brad, how would you feel if you spent thousands of dollars developing a part and bringing it to market, only to have someone produce your product off shore and sell it for half the price? I have no problem with the free market concept, I DO have a problem with blatant copyright infringement.
Brad426
Well-Known Member
Gawd No! I agree with you 100% I do not like break out or counterfiet parts at all. My job as an aviation safety inspector is to make shure that "****" is not used on an aircraft you or your family is flying on and over you house. That mentality is now in the auto indistry. Fact is! Companies like Eddy do spend millions on R&D but, at some point it is more economical to have the product manufactured off shore. Some smart guy decides or the sub contracto thinks I should make a few extra units and sell them out the back door for half the price. I'm pretty sure these "Air Gap" design are a sample inour world. If I was Eddy I'd be some pissed.
But, fact is and I hear you chap South of the 49 yelling buy American and recentaly "Don't buy Canadian" when 90% of Americans shop at Cosco or Wal-Mart. Guess where 99.9% of there stock comes from...Not Canada & Not the USA. Off shore because all we see is the bottom line.
If you ad the manufacturing ability over in Asia to copy per batum a set of Bell helicopter main rotor blades and put them into the system and get a million sales at MSRP of 75% below Bell Helicopter and a 1000% mark up. Whould you? Ithink not but, there are people who do.
When I telephoned Eddy about what waas found in my so called bolt on heads I was shocked at the lame, piss poor customer service run-a-round I got. It was pathetic aafter spending big $'s on there product. I decided then & there I would never own another Eddy product. All the customer service person had to say was. Please ship them back to us to that we can investigate. A new replacement set are on the way and I personal assure you they will be good to go. Eddy would of had a customer for life.
If Matel had a QA inspector in China whatch the sub contractor to ensure that non-lead based chemicals were no used in childerns toys it would of not happened. It was not the Chinese who were responsable as the media declaired it was Matel for not ensureing that the sub contractor in China was using Matel Specifications and making dam sure of it. Did you notice that the Chinese government demanded a public appoligy from Matels top brass on Chinese national TV. It wasn't aired here. Matal had the patch up relations big with China cause it would have to find another country to sub contract to. Even worse still make things in North America at a greater cost........It's frigging sad! I'm no expert by any means but, Freed trade is killing us. Simply stop buying..............not made in Canada or USA. But, can we? Thanks for the reply
I agree that Edelbrock's QC is crap. I have a set of "Bolt on and Go" heads right here in their boxes waiting to go to IMM to be properly checked out and set up properly.
My problem is people buying the knock off parts and then coming here and encouraging others to do the same. This only keeps the pirates in business so that they can copy someone else's product and undercut another domestic manufacturer.
I can't say that I don't buy off shore made goods, but I try not to and certainly don't encourage others to.
My problem is people buying the knock off parts and then coming here and encouraging others to do the same. This only keeps the pirates in business so that they can copy someone else's product and undercut another domestic manufacturer.
I can't say that I don't buy off shore made goods, but I try not to and certainly don't encourage others to.
We have laws in place here in the States but anything goes worldwide. tmm
Brad426
Well-Known Member
This might be the wrong thread for this topic and I agree with you BrianT. I strongly agree to buy "North American" and that comes from a guy that daily work driver is a Honda FIT because it was the economical choice for the quality presented. I worked for my fathers GM dealship for years and GM in Oshawa, Ontario.
I did not post here to encourage other to buy off shore. I simply stated facts based on my experance and observation and some personal opinions on the big picture, as I see it.
ops:I like your feedback and please do not get the impression I support pirates or counterfieters but, It's a fact of industry these days. Buyer Beware/U Bee the judge. -END-
WOW! What a horrible mis match on the ports!
70408dart
70408Dart
The Dart is looking good. You'll have to post some pics after its all done. Let us know what kind of times you get at the track also. I've seen LXguys Dart run and its pretty darn quick. Just to take a quick look at it you wouldn't think it was that fast.
moper
Well-Known Member
This might be the wrong thread for this topic and I agree with you BrianT. I strongly agree to buy "North American" and that comes from a guy that daily work driver is a Honda FIT because it was the economical choice for the quality presented. I worked for my fathers GM dealship for years and GM in Oshawa, Ontario.
I did not post here to encourage other to buy off shore. I simply stated facts based on my experance and observation and some personal opinions on the big picture, as I see it.
Brad, I respect your opinions and I see nothing wrong with debate. So - did you actually run both intakes? I can tell you from my limited experience that:
1. the material the one counterfit I handled was cast from was a different aluminum. It was much more brittle, drilled and tapped differently, and had a lot of evidence of casting porosity. This was verified when coolant began seaping out the rear of the intake when the cooling system was pressurized. Not the gasket mind you... through the casting of the area adjacent to the cooling passage in the head.
2. The power level went up by a feelable amount (per the car's owner who did the actual swap) and the AG needed a completely different carb set up due to increased airflow (overall significantly more jet).
3. Visually the intakes are close. Not exact. I'd invite you to measure the port volumes of a counterfit vs AG. We talk a lot about how critical a small mark or surface feature is to head porting and that small changes reap huge rewards or kill flow. What do you think small changes in the intake's runners do?
This is part of a quote I have hanging on the panel in front of me right now...
There is hardly anything in the world that some men cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper and the people who consider price are this man's lawful prey. - John Ruskin
oliver
Well-Known Member
You guys should see the horrible mismatch on a newer eddy RPM that i just port matched... we are talking 1/8th inch to 3/16th's in some areas... and thats just to a standard intake gasket, not a hi-po one. I have a older torker II 340 thats dead on. Eddy's quality has gone downhill.
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