Early A Convertible rocker

[FixItAll]

Right now just fishing for some information on the rocker area of the early body convertibles (1966 in this case). You can see in the picture there is a decent amount of rot right about where the back of the bench seat ends and the rear seat floor well begins. (Other side looks “better”)

I’m eventually going to cut this open and see what horrors await but that’s a winter project I think. Does anyone know where I can find more information on this area of the car? Parts fiche?

My research so far tells me the metal is thicker here but I’m curious about internal geometry and eventually the process I’m gonna need to follow. Currently I’m planning to get the front pans replaced and add subframes before I hack into this. Thoughts?

 

[A56]

Check out US car tool. They now make weld in internal rocker panel supports for A bodies.

 

[doug 371]

looks minor...don't sweat it

 

[FixItAll]

Check out US car tool. They now make weld in internal rocker panel supports for A bodies.

Thanks! I’m pretty impressed with their stuff, and I’ll likely get the frame connectors from them. I didn’t see anything for the early bodies in the rocker area though, I’ll take another look!

looks minor...don't sweat it

Famous last words lol. You’re prob right I just want to be prepared for when I cut a flap open to have a peek.

 

[A56]

Thanks! I’m pretty impressed with their stuff, and I’ll likely get the frame connectors from them. I didn’t see anything for the early bodies in the rocker area though, I’ll take another look!



Famous last words lol. You’re prob right I just want to be prepared for when I cut a flap open to have a peek.

They do have some great stuff ($$) and you're correct it may be for 2nd gen A bodies but give them a shout to see if its possible to utilize them. The rocker area is definitely a major support area for verts. Good luck.

 

[Cuda416]

Frame connectors are easy to make and a LOT cheaper than what USCT sells. Not to take anything away from the stuff, but nothing they sell is rocket science. Full disclosure, I have some of there stuff for my 70 cuda. Our 65 valiant has home made connectors and they are perfectly fine.

As far as they rot is concerned , you're not gonna know until you cut it out. I can tell you, it's going to be farther from the opening that it looks though. The thicker metal, the more damage had o be done to make a hole like that (from the inside). I'd make a layered tape template to capture the shape of that whole area, then cut a nice rectangular peice out. Keep cutitng until you can't feel the rust on the inside. Then you can measure the thickness, and make a patch using you're template. The rest is treating what's left and a little welding. Done. Metal is forgiving. You can make mistakes and fix them easy enough.

Good Luck!

 

[65 Dartman]

I’ve cut apart several early A ‘verts that were just plain too far gone. There was something like a HD beam (kind of like an internal frame connector) in between the inner and outer rocker panels. The recip saw really bogged down when hitting it. You might have them too.

 

[64 Dart 270]

Like Don said the convertibles have a thick beam inside the rocker like in the pics below.

This link is a story about a B body convertible restore, but it shows some good cut-away views of the convertible beam: Gallery: The AMD Installation Center & Classic Muscle Metal Resurrect the “Comeback Cuda” - Mopar Connection Magazine | A comprehensive daily resource for Mopar enthusiast news, features and the latest Mopar tech

 

[FixItAll]

Frame connectors are easy to make and a LOT cheaper than what USCT sells. Not to take anything away from the stuff, but nothing they sell is rocket science. Full disclosure, I have some of there stuff for my 70 cuda. Our 65 valiant has home made connectors and they are perfectly fine.

As far as they rot is concerned , you're not gonna know until you cut it out. I can tell you, it's going to be farther from the opening that it looks though. The thicker metal, the more damage had o be done to make a hole like that (from the inside). I'd make a layered tape template to capture the shape of that whole area, then cut a nice rectangular peice out. Keep cutitng until you can't feel the rust on the inside. Then you can measure the thickness, and make a patch using you're template. The rest is treating what's left and a little welding. Done. Metal is forgiving. You can make mistakes and fix them easy enough.

Good Luck!

Exactly on the logic regarding rust spread, I’m sure the edge of it goes down into the body at least an inch or two radius. As for the layered tape idea, are you talking about cutting through the tape and pulling it from scrap piece to layer it over the new donor metal?

Like Don said the convertibles have a thick beam inside the rocker like in the pics below.

This link is a story about a B body convertible restore, but it shows some good cut-away views of the convertible beam: Gallery: The AMD Installation Center & Classic Muscle Metal Resurrect the “Comeback Cuda” - Mopar Connection Magazine | A comprehensive daily resource for Mopar enthusiast news, features and the latest Mopar tech

View attachment 1715952544

View attachment 1715952545

There’s the money shot! That’s a huge help and a relief that the C channel is directed the other way, so hopefully I’m just going to be dealing with the two layers of sheet metal.

 

[Cuda416]

Exactly on the logic regarding rust spread, I’m sure the edge of it goes down into the body at least an inch or two radius. As for the layered tape idea, are you talking about cutting through the tape and pulling it from scrap piece to layer it over the new donor metal?

Not exactly, using layers of tape, something that pulls off easily like blue tape, build up a few layers over the existing area, say 10 inches round or there about. Then when you carefully peel it off, it will retain the original shape. Might not be necessary, but if the rust goes beyond a simple 1 dir curve, then it will help duplicate the oroiginal shape of the metal the patch needs to look like. When the tape is peeled of, you can stop the sticky side from stikcing to itself by hitting it with talc, or dust. Same result.

 

[FixItAll]

Not exactly, using layers of tape, something that pulls off easily like blue tape, build up a few layers over the existing area, say 10 inches round or there about. Then when you carefully peel it off, it will retain the original shape. Might not be necessary, but if the rust goes beyond a simple 1 dir curve, then it will help duplicate the oroiginal shape of the metal the patch needs to look like. When the tape is peeled of, you can stop the sticky side from stikcing to itself by hitting it with talc, or dust. Same result.

Very smart! I get it now, sounds like an analog way to make 3D stencil. Much better than hammering and eye balling the results. Thanks for the idea, I’d never have figured that out.

 

[Cuda416]

Very smart! I get it now, sounds like an analog way to make 3D stencil. Much better than hammering and eye balling the results. Thanks for the idea, I’d never have figured that out.

Yes sir, that is exactly it. Can't take credit, is normal for the metal shaper crowd.

 

[KosmicKuda]

I took this picture in April of a 1965 Dart rocker panel intending to post it in the convertible forum. It is the driver side looking forward. Note how the floor pan rests on a ledge built into the inner rocker.

You need to remove the front floor pans to fully see how extensive the rust is. I can just about guarantee the front frame rails and T-bar crossmember will be bad. The rails rust from the inside out and can be paper thin. This will also allow you to check on the metal around the T-bar anchors. I welded extra gussets to the sockets on the inside. Otherwise, if that car has sat for awhile the anchors twist right out at the first big bump. It sounds like BANG and the front end drops down.

 

[FixItAll]

I took this picture in April of a 1965 Dart rocker panel intending to post it in the convertible forum. It is the driver side looking forward. Note how the floor pan rests on a ledge built into the inner rocker.

You need to remove the front floor pans to fully see how extensive the rust is. I can just about guarantee the front frame rails and T-bar crossmember will be bad. The rails rust from the inside out and can be paper thin. This will also allow you to check on the metal around the T-bar anchors. I welded extra gussets to the sockets on the inside. Otherwise, if that car has sat for awhile the anchors twist right out at the first big bump. It sounds like BANG and the front end drops down.

View attachment 1715952590

Oh boy, that’s not ideal if you’re right but I can see the frame rotting on the inside. The underside of the pans is surprisingly clean so that means there’s bound to be rust inside some crevasse.

When you say anchors what are you referring to? Sockets?

 

[Cuda416]

Oh boy, that’s not ideal if you’re right but I can see the frame rotting on the inside. The underside of the pans is surprisingly clean so that means there’s bound to be rust inside some crevasse.

When you say anchors what are you referring to? Sockets?

Yes I think he's referring to the sockets the torsion bars slide into that are integral to the crossmember.

 

[FixItAll]

Yes I think he's referring to the sockets the torsion bars slide into that are integral to the crossmember.

You are right, I was confused and thought we were referring to the spot where the frame rail meets the crossmember.

I might be in the clear on frame rot based on what I can see in these photos but he’s def right about having to cut away the pan at the rocker.

How much cutting can I do on the rocker before I need to fully support the frame? (Leveled and squared)

 

[Cuda416]

You are right, I was confused and thought we were referring to the spot where the frame rail meets the crossmember.

I might be in the clear on frame rot based on what I can see in these photos but he’s def right about having to cut away the pan at the rocker.

How much cutting can I do on the rocker before I need to fully support the frame? (Leveled and squared)

That's all but impossible to say here since the condition of the inside is unknown. Best thing to do when cutting into anything structural is support is as much as possible. Also of note, the rocker is in two parts. inside and Out, so just removing the outer rocker isn't necessarily going tp make you're car fold up.

your pictures show a LOT of scale. Might be worth cutting into it to see how thick what's left is. At some point, you will be in the same boat as me. My car (70 cuda vert) is as bad as yours and is scary as hell. However, it's a 70 cuda vert. so in MY head, worth saving. That's the hard choice you gonna need to make.

I was hoping to be able to keep the front rails in tact, but I've discovered that isn't happening. Go in and Go BIG if the car is important to you.

 

[FixItAll]

That's all but impossible to say here since the condition of the inside is unknown. Best thing to do when cutting into anything structural is support is as much as possible. Also of note, the rocker is in two parts. inside and Out, so just removing the outer rocker isn't necessarily going tp make you're car fold up.

your pictures show a LOT of scale. Might be worth cutting into it to see how thick what's left is. At some point, you will be in the same boat as me. My car (70 cuda vert) is as bad as yours and is scary as hell. However, it's a 70 cuda vert. so in MY head, worth saving. That's the hard choice you gonna need to make.

I was hoping to be able to keep the front rails in tact, but I've discovered that isn't happening. Go in and Go BIG if the car is important to you.

Right, I’ll have to do some cost benefit once I get it cut open and sandblast everything. I suppose what you’re implying is that your frame rail steel was just too thin once you were able to look inside?

This car wasn’t my first choice for sure, but I couldn’t turn down a cheap convertible!

 

[Cuda416]

Right, I’ll have to do some cost benefit once I get it cut open and sandblast everything. I suppose what you’re implying is that your frame rail steel was just too thin once you were able to look inside?

This car wasn’t my first choice for sure, but I couldn’t turn down a cheap convertible!

My car sat in an enclosed garage in MN for 38 years. It rotted from the inside out. There won't be much of the original metal left except for the convertible specific parts which, thankfully, are in tact. Well, the windshield frame top is bad, but it might be fixable. As an insurance policy, I found another vert W/S frame and bought it "just in case". I figure if I don't use it, I'll sell it for a profit.

 

[FixItAll]

My car sat in an enclosed garage in MN for 38 years. It rotted from the inside out. There won't be much of the original metal left except for the convertible specific parts which, thankfully, are in tact. Well, the windshield frame top is bad, but it might be fixable. As an insurance policy, I found another vert W/S frame and bought it "just in case". I figure if I don't use it, I'll sell it for a profit.

I wouldn’t doubt the salt and extended sit is what made it all happen. It’s amazing how a car will rot faster when it doesn’t get driven.

 

[Cuda416]

I wouldn’t doubt the salt and extended sit is what made it all happen. It’s amazing how a car will rot faster when it doesn’t get driven.

Yes, plus no vapor barrier under the concrete....