Edelbrock head alternatives?

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pishta said:
The energy the motor makes is in many forms. Heat is one that cannot be used unless its kept in the combustion chamber as pressure (or used to drive a turbo) Iron is superior to aluminum in this trait. If the mags chose to measure everything about the motor (ie. coolant temperature, radiator efficiency, temperature rise of the dyno cell), etc) they would see the sum of all energies produced. if a motor is giving off more heat from the same amount of fuel burned, it is using less to turn the crank.
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This leads to incorrect thinking. This type of incorrect argument could be used to 'prove' that the iron headed engine is shedding MORE heat and thus being less efficient. It would shed more heat direct to the air through the heads BECAUSE is it hotter, and thus is losing more heat to the surroundings. But of course, the reality is how much heat goes everywhere OR how much comes out of the crank. (Dyno output). It all comes out in dyno measurements, and all I have seen from actual testing is that there is no conclusive difference.

The iron heads are hotter simply because their thermal resistance is higher, which is inherent in the material. If the same heat flows out of the combusted mixture into the cylinder heads, then the iron heads will simply be hotter. There is no causation that has been proven between this and NET combustion pressures differences being higher. One false theory being purported is that, because the iron heads are hotter, they will absorb less heat from the combustion process, since the temp differential is lower. But that does not account for the greater heating of the mixture prior to combustion due the iron heads having a greater temp differential to the cooler intake charge. So if the end combustion temp is higher, then it can simply be caused by starting with more heat going into the mixture from the heads. So, there is no cause and effect proved by higher end combustion temps per se.

As for turbos, again, temp alone does not tell you how much is being put into a turbo; only temp differential (temp drop) is an indicator. So putting a higher temp exhaust into a turbo does not mean more turbo 'oomph'...

Yes, I would take the Hughes' blurb on this as a theory at best....
 
Where did the original poster go? He might be looking for a nice street engine with good lo rpm torque?
A set of 1.88 / 1.60 J heads with a short duration cam may very well fit his needs, more info is needed.
 
trebor75 said:
Did they kill the low end?
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YUP! would not get out of its own way until about the chrismas tree, then took off like a bat out of helll. It loved to rev, but you cant make up what you loose in the first 60 feet.

Stock X heads ran one full sec quicker because it would 60 foot.

I just think you should do some investigation on then before you chalk it up to experience and move on................................
 
Not dishing on the RHS heads at all. my 340/x head combo with the 2800 stall and 4.56 gears ran a best of 14.10 at 4400 feet With more stroke,(408) more compression, same stall, same car weight. My RHS heads, that were bought from Brian a IMM, lowered my ET down to a high 11.90 Sec. ET.
 
I've used or been involved with both heads many times and they are both great heads and have their place but otb the same engine combo in the same car the IMM/RHS win every time.
 
nm9stheham said:
.. It all comes out in dyno measurements, and all I have seen from actual testing is that there is no conclusive difference....
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So all of our banter comes down to this? Sheesh, that didn't even get us a beer and a game of pool together. Run what you brung.
 
I have no idea about best or fastest or whatever, but these two things I can say; The Eddies are staying on my 367, and, I'm never going back to a 340.
I ran 340s, on and off, starting in 1970, and always with 4-speeds, and rarely tracked them. And not a one of those iron-headed hotrods could come close to this Eddie-headed sweetheart. There are no apples to apples comparisons in my scrapbook, only memories.
For a streeter,with a 65mph barrier,I wonder if it makes a big deal. As a streeter, we normally don't stray too far from 3.55 gears, and so you're always gonna hit 65 in second gear.And most of first gear is spent in tire smoke. So really unless you short-shift it,your engine is only gonna have to pull, in second gear. Say from about 50/55 to 65.
For a serious streeter who runs 4.10s the speed zone comes down to 45/50, and if he runs say a 284 cam, it goes back up to 55 again.
So how much quicker will the typical race-type heads be for those 10 or 15 mph? And how much are you paying for that performance increase?
I mean we are talking street cars that do zero to 60 in the range of about 5.2 to 5.5 seconds,right? And at least the first 4 of those are spent in first gear,searching for traction.
I wonder if the money wouldn't be better spent on getting first gear to hook. I mean there's at least .5 to .7 second lost in the 60ft, and the potential to drop another .5 in the rest of first gear. So that's around 1 to 1.2 seconds lost in first gear. I'd like to say no head in the world will give you that back from 50/55 to 65. Not even if you started with the most anemic lumps Chrysler ever built.
But like I said, I have no idea.
 
Thanks for all the info so far. As far as the cars usage, just street. I have no intention of breaking stuff at the dragstrip, although that would be a dream. Here's some info on the car so far. Dana 60 rear end with 3.55 posi. KB 243 pistons, .030 over. Forged crank. 4 speed. That's where I'm at so far. I'm not trying to squeeze every last tenth out of the car, just mostly wanna scare some women and children at the cruise night scene...
 
MD68 said:
Thanks for all the info so far. As far as the cars usage, just street. I have no intention of breaking stuff at the dragstrip, although that would be a dream. Here's some info on the car so far. Dana 60 rear end with 3.55 posi. KB 243 pistons, .030 over. Forged crank. 4 speed. That's where I'm at so far. I'm not trying to squeeze every last tenth out of the car, just mostly wanna scare some women and children at the cruise night scene...
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A stick and a Dana? Screw that. Take that to the strip and beat the snot out of it.
 
Thanks for all the info so far. As far as the cars usage, just street. I have no intention of breaking stuff at the dragstrip, although that would be a dream. Here's some info on the car so far. Dana 60 rear end with 3.55 posi. KB 243 pistons, .030 over. Forged crank. 4 speed. That's where I'm at so far. I'm not trying to squeeze every last tenth out of the car, just mostly wanna scare some women and children at the cruise night scene...[/QUOTE]

Trying what you have sounds like a good option. But it looks like you are going to be limited to lower speed operations (cruise night) so it speaks to torque so keep your compression ratios up and don't go too wild on cam, since you won't need to wind it out too far. You got a good start on that with the piston selection. Now you need to match the cylinder head chambers and head gaskets to those pistons to get up around 9.5-10:1 Static CR. Then, if you ever go with a bigger cam later, you will have enough SCR so that won't drop the dynamic CR (DCR) too low and kill the low RPM torque.

My advice on the heads is to go with the most flow that you can afford. It'll make the engine run stronger in mid range and up top regardless of the cam. The IMM RHS heads are obviously quite good. But they are going to give you an SCR of almost 10.5:1 with your pistons and a .051" standard Felpro 8553 PT head gasket, and an iron head at that SCR is not easy to run without detonation 'challenges' for a street sized cam. (But it CAN be done with care; you have to limit the ignition timing advance and not go with the standard advice.) That kinda points to the Edelbrocks 60179's with milled chambers as being a bit better with your pistons and application; the SCR will be down around 10.1:1 and the aluminum will offer better detonation resistance to boot. So that choice IMHO is being driven a lot by your use, the moderate cam size it calls for, and the pistons you have.

If you are limited on budget for heads, then mill the heads you have about .020" to get the cambers to the 70 cc range, and put 'em on with a 8553 PT head gasket. SCR will be in the high 9's and DCR will be in the high 7's with a 268/274 cam. That ought to be perky on the street, have a wide RPM range (good street/cruise driveability), and be quite easily tunable to avoid detonation issues.
 
Throw this into the mix. 2 smallblocks we are finishing up in the next week . Which will be faster in the same car (horsepower guess) . Not my parts choice on 1 of the motors. #1 1976 Dodge truck 318 block .030 , scat 4" kit 390 cubic inches ,compression 9.6-1 using cometic .027" gaskets. OTB edelbrock heads set up for roller cam . Lunati 271/279 advertised hydraulic roller , OTB pro-comp dual plane intake with FAST fuel injection and hooker 1-5/8 headers.
#2 1975 360 block .020 cut to zero deck using speed pro pistons for 10.1-1 compression using felpro .039" gaskets bare rhs-x heads.comp longer valves 1.92 & 1.65 beehives , about 4 hours port work on the bowls ,chambers , runners , guide boss slim , back cut valves ,might come close to IMM otb . lunati 243/251 @.050 solid flat tappet , worked holley strip dominator with a worked quick fuel 750. and TTI 1-5/8x1-3/4 headers.
 
dogbreath said:
Throw this into the mix. 2 smallblocks we are finishing up in the next week . Which will be faster in the same car (horsepower guess) . Not my parts choice on 1 of the motors. #1 1976 Dodge truck 318 block .030 , scat 4" kit 390 cubic inches ,compression 9.6-1 using cometic .027" gaskets. OTB edelbrock heads set up for roller cam . Lunati 271/279 advertised hydraulic roller , OTB pro-comp dual plane intake with FAST fuel injection and hooker 1-5/8 headers.
#2 1975 360 block .020 cut to zero deck using speed pro pistons for 10.1-1 compression using felpro .039" gaskets bare rhs-x heads.comp longer valves 1.92 & 1.65 beehives , about 4 hours port work on the bowls ,chambers , runners , guide boss slim , back cut valves ,might come close to IMM otb . lunati 243/251 @.050 solid flat tappet , worked holley strip dominator with a worked quick fuel 750. and TTI 1-5/8x1-3/4 headers.
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With the right converter and gears the second one will be quicker.
 
Another note, I do have a set of X heads. I'm wondering what the cost of a valve job, port and polish would be?? I will make some calls on that locally, but are there any guesstimates on what that might cost?
 
About the same as new Edelbrock heads will be.
 
That's Canadian,eh. Don't wet your pants.lol
There's only three kinds of people wanting them;
restorers, racers, and old guys with hard-ons for stock 340s cuz they once had one.
And the supply of unmolested is disappearing. I think I got 5 left.
 
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MD68 said:
Another note, I do have a set of X heads. I'm wondering what the cost of a valve job, port and polish would be?? I will make some calls on that locally, but are there any guesstimates on what that might cost?
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if you already have the x heads with a bit of luck a valve job may be all you need.
 
MD68 said:
Another note, I do have a set of X heads. I'm wondering what the cost of a valve job, port and polish would be?? I will make some calls on that locally, but are there any guesstimates on what that might cost?
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As you ask, ask about multi-angle valve jobs and if they can open up under the seats with a Serdi machine. Those are lower cost steps to get a bit more flow (versus real porting work). The Serdi machines are not everywhere, and I don't know if there are limitations on when they can be used, so that may not work out.

See if you can run down an old school machine shop in your area that does a lot for track work; IMHO, that will be your best bet. And, the shop that did Bob Glidden's heads back in the day is around Indy somewhere; dunno the name, dunno if the older guys are still there, and the price may be waaaay up there, but it might be worth running down. Are you anywhere near the Toledo area?
 
For a peppy street cruiser, spend a few hundred on refreshing the heads you have and use the other $1K or so that the Ebrocks would cost to buy beer and loose women. Win/win in my book.
 
nm9stheham said:
As you ask, ask about multi-angle valve jobs and if they can open up under the seats with a Serdi machine. Those are lower cost steps to get a bit more flow (versus real porting work). The Serdi machines are not everywhere, and I don't know if there are limitations on when they can be used, so that may not work out.

See if you can run down an old school machine shop in your area that does a lot for track work; IMHO, that will be your best bet. And, the shop that did Bob Glidden's heads back in the day is around Indy somewhere; dunno the name, dunno if the older guys are still there, and the price may be waaaay up there, but it might be worth running down. Are you anywhere near the Toledo area?
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Nowhere near Toledo, but I'm currently away from home working in Indy. I will see what shops I can dig up here.

The recommended guy near home quoted me anywhere between $2-600, depending on how much work I wanted done, and any parts needed. That's to rework the X heads.
 
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