"El Mongrel" '65 Formula S Restomod

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How the hell did you get the engine out w/out pulling the trans? I have a 360/727, and because there is so little room, every time we yank the engine, the trans comes out with it. Also, thanks for some of this info, like the fan shroud, clutch fan, dual snorkel thing. I want to do that with mine but haven't had the mopar know how to do these and know they'll work, neither does my dad. Your project is pretty much the same as mine in scope and desire, except I'll have no problem putting a 4 (or 6) on the floor and cutting into the tunnel for the hump or doing other little cutting things that can, with a bit of work, be reversed.
 
Those pictures of the empty engine bay and trans were taken during mock up. I had the motor in and out several times and did it all by myself. The final install was done just like you see it with the trans in position and the engine lowered in. Let me tell you, getting the upper bolts in along the upper bell of the trans case is a challenge. Any more engine/trans removal will be done by dropping the whole works out the bottom as a unit with the K member. If it wasn't a real Formula S and the body in such great shape I wouldn't think twice about slicing and dicing it ten ways to Sunday. I've got a rust bucket '74 Duster that I'm going crazy on with the sawsall right now.

You never know what will work until you give your ideas a try. Some times they work, sometimes they don't. I'm keeping my failures to myself!
 
Cliff this is for you. These are my floor pans with my rust "issues".... Sorry couldn't help myself. I was elated when I pulled the carpet out of the car. Other than a little light surface rust in the two front foot wells the floor looked like it had just been installed at the factory. There is a quarter sized hole in the driver's lower quarter but that is the extent of rust in the car. The infamous "Rust Free" car? No, but damn close.
I just noticed the color of your little console.I have a blue one if interested.PM me.
 
It seems like you see fewer and fewer old Mopars out on the road anymore. Drivers I mean. There a many nice hot rod/restored examples tucked away in garages, you just never see them unless you go to a car show or local meeting spot. I was shocked this last week when I saw a young lady in a very nice 73-76 Duster survivor out doing shopping and 3 "drivers" within 2 blocks as I was cruising through a neighborhood down by the city center of Vancouver. A nice black Signet, a 69 Dart in grey primer and a nice 66 Dart. They're still out there.

They are, but very unusual to see. I moved over to the E.Side and the only older Mopars I see around much is a '69 Valiant sedan (driven by a 27-30 YO guy), Ben's '74 Valiant, a '78 Cordoba (absolutely mint BB/sunroof car, elderly owners), an '88 Fifth Ave, and my stuff. In my neighborhood I am the oddball because I love the old Mopars and my truck is a '72 F250, not an Escalade SUT.
 
Rapom- I know that grade into "Yakistan." If you have questional brakes, that'll make your backside pucker...by the way, that highway is known by the State Patrol as the "Cocaine Expressway" from Mexico. To anybody thinking about using that highway-do NOT mess around there or have any type of contraband in your car. Since I don't have anything to worry about in that manner, I will tell you guys that Tee Pee Auto Wrecking in Outlook is one crazy big yard near Yakima and they have ACRES of vintage stuff!
 
Next update won't be until next week - I'm headed for the MATS and hope to meet some of you there at the FABO get together. I promise I'll put some of the 20 hours driving time each way to good use doing some writing. Later....
 
Wow, you do very nice work and have some great ideas, keep the pictures comming!!
 
Thanks 66340SEDAN. I have always admired your car and it's one of my favorites on FABO. Nice clean construction mixed with some nostalgia, my favorite combo. I nearly threw up I laughed so hard the first time I saw your current avatar.
 
I'm BAAACCKKK!!!! (Jack poking head through bathroom door in the "Shinning"). Sorry for the delay in the updates, was only gone to MATS for 5 days but had three weeks worth of crap to catch up on when I got home! So here is the next installment in the saga of the "Mongrel".

Part 10
Related to the drive train and needing to include it before I forget is the shifter mod I came up with. I have seen reference to this by others since then but it was totally unknown to me at the time I did this mod. The ‘65 Cuda used a small floor mounted shifter and console which actuated a twin cable shifting mechanism. This was a mix of a new shifter and the old cable system from the ‘64 dash mounted push button system. I believe this was a one year only setup as in ‘66 they went with the rod and lever system found in later model Auto floor mount shifters, or maybe it was ’67 and later? Anyway the stock tranny and cable mechanism went the way of cheap gas and were replaced with the A999. That left the problem of a replacement shifter set up for a reverse manual valve body. I wanted to keep the stock console as it is one of the signature pieces of the interior on these cars. I dug through my parts bin and pulled out an old Hurst Pro-matic 2 shifter I had squirreled away years ago. This had promise as it is a ratchet type shifter and would work with stock or reverse pattern valve bodies. I removed the console off the stock shifter and set the Pro-matic on the floor next to it for comparison. They were surprisingly similar in size and construction and looked like it would almost bolt right into the stock brackets. That wasn’t quite the case but a little grinding for clearance and a couple of tack welds had it sitting securely in place (red circles on pics). The real question was if the console top plate would work with the throw of the Hurst shifter. I removed the ball off the shifter, gutted a beat up spare console top plate of the shift indicator and sliding plastic plate and slipped it over the lever. YESSSSS…. It lined up! Now will it clear the throw of the lever? I gingerly ran the shifter through it’s gates a few times. HOT DAMN it clears! Other than a couple of strokes with a file to ease the edge under the front of the console’s top plate, so it wouldn’t rattle against the lever in PARK, it was like they were made for each other. Sadly my shifter is pretty sloppy from use but it looks nearly stock, except for the Hurst logo engraved down the lever which I really like. It’s the “Auto” version of the Hurst 4 speed shifter that came on the ‘65s. Definitely not a factory option! The red circles show the small notch I ground into the rear bracket for clearance and 3 heavy spot welds that mount the shifter to the floor brackets. I could have bolted it to the top of the tunnel, through the provided tabs, but that would be more holes in an otherwise pristine floor. The spot welds are more than enough to hold it in place, believe me I tested it. I did have to put a hole in the tunnel for the new shifter cable as there was no way to make it bend to go through the factory hole which is way up by the gas pedal. A reverse pattern decal left over from a B&M Pro Stick fit over the stock indicator window with a little trimming and we can mark this project "DONE".
 

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Part 11

Ok, the drive train is done and we’re moving on to goal # 2 – Make It Handle. This will cover all the suspension mods and a few body reinforcements I made to bring the already sporty factory Formula S handling up a couple of notches. Hopefully it will be competitive with newer offerings like the Mustangs, Cameros and Challengers.

Part of the Formula S package was suspension upgrades consisting of a 13/16” (by my measurement) front sway bar, 6 leaf HD rear springs, heavy duty shocks, wider 14 x 5.5 rims and newly developed “Blue Streak” tires. This was a nice handling set up for it’s day but modern shock and tire technology has come a long way since 1965 so improvement in those departments will be relatively easy. I kicked around ideas for a tire/rim package for a long time but ultimately made the decision not to go for big rims and the much better tires they would provide. This was mainly due to budget constraints but also to keep the car more in line with the period vibe I was trying to accomplish. The remaining mods were meant to tweak an already good working system not reengineer and/or replace the whole works.
We’re going to start at the rear of the car and work our way forward. Most guys dream of upgrades in the power department no matter what engine they currently have between the fenders. Early As frankly just didn’t come equipped from the factory to handle anything more stout than the 235 HP 4bbl 273. The trans, U joints and rear axle will soon show they’re weak points once some real power is applied. One of the first modifications I made was to replace the 7 ¼ rear axle with an 8 ¼ pulled from a 4 door ’75 Valiant parts car. If taken from any A body this is a simple bolt in swap that will provide many benefits besides the much improved strength. First, you will find an A body 8 ¼ is roughly 1.5" narrower than a stock 7 ¼, which when combined with another simple mod, will allow you to make full use of all the space in the wheel wells for larger tires. Second, all 8 ¼ are large bolt pattern (same as the popular ’73-76 A body disk brake swap). Third, that axle will come with larger drum brakes already installed (freebie!). Be sure to grab the U bolts and shock plates when you pull the axle as the 8 ¼ has larger 3” axle tubes (same as 8 ¾). It would also be a good idea to pull the driveshaft too. In fact, if your stock springs are sagging like a fully loaded diaper, grab the springs, hangers, shackles, axle, brakes and cables as one whole unit. It is much easier to remove and install as an assembly rather than in pieces. Plus if you got tires and rims you can roll it to where ever you’re going.
Your probably wondering what that simple mod I mentioned is. It does require a little welding and is a bit more involved than simply bolting it on. All the parts are available through Mopar Performance and consist of new offset front spring hangers, offset rear shackles and spring pads which move the springs in approx 0.80” per side. The net result is the spring is moved inboard, so the outside edge of the spring is lined up with the inside edge of the wheel tub, opening the entire width of the wheel well for more tire. This lets you use cop car rims or any other 15 x 7 rim with 4 1/4" BS (pretty common). The offset front hanger brackets are Mopar PN P4120077, the shackles P4120075, and the spring pads P4120074. The only welding required is to attach the new spring pads to the axle as they will need to be moved inboard from the stock location the same amount as the shackle offset. Be aware that most aftermarket spring pads have a 1/2" hole for the locating pin on the spring and that is larger than stock. Find some that have smaller holes and save yourself the hassle of making bushings to take up the slop. The best way to remove the old spring pads (if you don't have a torch or plasma, if you do then maybe you can reuse your originals) is to cut them down the middle with a cutoff wheel or recip saw and then pry the halves back and forth until the welds break. Do one side at a time and you can use the remaining original spring pad to set your pinion angle for the new pad. The front hangers are set up for the larger 5/8" bolt of the super stock springs (1/2” stock) but that can be easily rectified with 5/8” poly bushings (99% yours will be shot anyway) and two new grade 8 bolts. When I did this to my Cuda I also replaced the rubber bushings that came with the offset shackles with poly bushings. An added benefit of the new hangers is that you can swap them side to side and flip them just like you can with stock hangers which raises the spring bolt holes 1" higher in the car. This will lower the rear of the car just the right amount without having to resort to dearched springs or lowering blocks. When you do this the bolt holes will be slightly off and the holes in the frame where the hanger mounts will need to be elongated. Yeah its a pain but can be done with a carbide bit or round file and elbow grease. Unless your going to go the full spring in the frame and mini tub route this is by far the easiest and quickest way to maximize the use of the available space in the stock wheel well. It was a lot of work but well worth every minute and bloody knuckle.


I don't know how to do links but if you go to moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/suspension there is a good article and pics that walk you through the install.

Pic 1: Offset shackles.
Pic 2: Spring to tire and tire to wheel well- inside and out, is right at 1". I might have squeezed a 255 in there on an 8" rim but didn't try.
Pic 3: Offset front spring hanger. Hard to tell much difference from stock but the hanger is moved in against the outer wall of the "frame rail". The nut for the spring eye bolt is welded to the hanger and a hole has to be put in the frame rail for clearance. Spring eye bolt is 1" higher (flipped bracket) than stock so the arse of the car will sit somewhat more than that amount lower. This pic looks like it was taken before swapping hangers side to side.
Pic 4: Wheels are $60 Pick-a-Part finds off a 4 door diplomat. Made by Western Wheel back....? Same dimensions as a cop car rim 15x7 with 4.25" back spacing. Tires 225-60-15 front 245-60-15 rear. No wheel rub to date.
 

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Very intresting build you got there :thumrigh:

Is it running yet? How does single exhaust sound? I was thinking same kind of setup for my Valiant.
 
Car has been running for a while now but life has been getting in the way of any major progress on getting it finished. I'm at the $500 dollar stage. Carpet Set - $500, replating of interior pieces - $500, door and back seat panels - $500, new front seat foam and skins - $500, it goes on and on. So just doing little things as I can afford them for now. Door and window seals, picked up some door hinge rebuild kits at MATS, ect. Just did the flip top gas cap & Donnie's (4mulaSvaliant) adapter last week.

I think the exhaust sounds great. It has that deep rumble at idle you get from a nice dual exhaust but mellows out nicely when driving so it's not droning at higher RPM. I've been around the neighborhood many times but have not been out on the highway or at freeway speed yet as it needs a complete alignment done. I'm looking for a competent shop in the Portland, OR / Vancouver, WA area. Any one have some recommendations? I'm sure when the sound deadener and carpeting are in it will quiet down inside quite a bit.
 
Car has been running for a while now but life has been getting in the way of any major progress on getting it finished. I'm at the $500 dollar stage. Carpet Set - $500, replating of interior pieces - $500, door and back seat panels - $500, new front seat foam and skins - $500, it goes on and on. So just doing little things as I can afford them for now. Door and window seals, picked up some door hinge rebuild kits at MATS, ect. Just did the flip top gas cap & Donnie's (4mulaSvaliant) adapter last week.

I think the exhaust sounds great. It has that deep rumble at idle you get from a nice dual exhaust but mellows out nicely when driving so it's not droning at higher RPM. I've been around the neighborhood many times but have not been out on the highway or at freeway speed yet as it needs a complete alignment done. I'm looking for a competent shop in the Portland, OR / Vancouver, WA area. Any one have some recommendations? I'm sure when the sound deadener and carpeting are in it will quiet down inside quite a bit.

I really like a lot of your idea's. Keep them coming.
 
Where are the pics of that cap install? LOL
Hey I like those wheels! What are they from? What bolt pattern?

I'm taking the camera out to the shop today to get new pics of all the things I want to write about. Pics and a write up on the cap install are coming in a future update as part of the overall write up on the "Mongrel". Donnie's got a nice product which I hope will solve the sloshing of gas out of the fill tube which provides that nice stained quarter panel look we're all going for.

Wheels are Western Wheel Co. offerings probably from the early 80s. I did a web search and found no pictures of these particular wheels. They made a large variety of "turbine" wheels if you all remember those. These are 4 1/2" bolt pattern and look a lot like the snowflake wheels that came on the black Pontiac Trans Am with the huge "firebird" decal on the hoods. I found these at a Pick-n-Pull on a 4 door Diplomat. Paid a whopping $60 with a full set of crap tires, caps and chrome lug nuts. A few months latter there was another Mopar with a set of these rims at the same yard and like a damn fool didn't pick up a couple for spares. Kick myself every time I think about it as the likelyhood of finding another set of these is probably zero.
 

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Ya know, you can probably get 275s back there now. I can put 245s in back right now, just have to move the axle over about 1/2 inch then I will barely have the clearance necessary to do that. You got a tonna room now.
 
Sorry for the long delay in posting any updates. Been really, really busy with some yard projects for the wife. Wanted to get them done for her for mothers day. Poor girl worked all weekend putting in 27 hours of overtime so it was the least I could do.

This is going to be a quick post to get the writing juices flowing again:

Part 12
I'm going way out of sequence with this as this is the latest change made to the car. Member “4mulaSvaliant” makes an adapter to mount a flip top gas cap in place of the hard to find and usually way overpriced original cap. I have bought three different caps and trial fit may others that were supposed to be correct but none have fit right. Hopefully this will seal well enough to eliminate the leakage problem of the original caps that leaves those lovely streaks down the quarter panel. Testing to come once the weather here in the Pacific North West dries out (there should be a day or two in late August!).
I purchased my used flip top cap from another member and ordered up “4mula’s” adapter. Once the items arrived it took about 45 minutes of careful measuring and drilling (done on my drill press to keep the holes perpendicular and straight) to match up to the quarter panels original fuel neck screw holes (none of the cap's original screw holes lined up, adapter is not drilled). On my car one screw (red arrow) was extremely close to the cast in block for the hinge but with very careful drilling it fit perfectly.
Some people like this look and others think it looks like crap. I wish it was inset more but that would require the sheet metal from an original car be cut into the quarter panel. I’ll learn to live with it especially if it seals well.
 

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Ya know, you can probably get 275s back there now. I can put 245s in back right now, just have to move the axle over about 1/2 inch then I will barely have the clearance necessary to do that. You got a tonna room now.

All depends on your tire/rim package and your desired use of the car. Short stiff sidewalls on larger rims will flex much less than higher profiles on 15" rims like mine. Drag strip use you can get away with very tight clearances but a cornering car needs more. This one is going to get flogged on curvy back roads so I shot for 1" clearance on both sides as I don't want to hear any rubbing.
 
Wow, my apologies to everyone for letting this thread lapse. My web time has taken a serious hit since the sun finally came out here in the Northwest. Excuses are like a-holes and everyone has one, including me. Been deeply occupied with getting summer house projects done like rebuilding/refinishing my deck (big!) and building new stairs on the side of the house plus yard projects the boss (wife) wanted done. I promise to get back in the writing mode and post up some more write ups soon. Last time I looked this thread had a couple hundred views, it's now up to 2400! Didn't think my junk was that interesting. Guess I'd better get on it!
 
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