Emissions Test

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Just to lay out my understanding of how tuning affects emissions since I have to deal with that in Colorado on anything newer than 1975...

Advanced timing increases combustion temps in the cylinder and produces more NOx, somewhat more CO. Retarding does the opposite, that's why smog-era cars run very little advance. Also releases more heat to the exhaust and coolant system instead of keeping it in the cylinder.

Running lean actually produces less total heat but the burn rate is slower so the heat rejected to the exhaust and coolant is actually higher hence why they run "hot". Abundance of oxygen helps ensure there are 2 oxygen atoms available for every carbon atom so you get CO2 instead of CO with each burn. And as has been said it keeps the exhaust system a lot hotter which helps the mixture continue to burn more completely after it's left the engine.

The tricky part is dealing with HC when you have a performance camshaft. A lumpy idle is sorta like controlled misfiring which just DUMPS unburned fuel out the exhaust and that's your high HC. Now what makes it tricky is if you retard the timing to heat up the exhaust you'll end up making idle quality worse which may cause more misfiring which may then actually increase HC.

So I agree with what others have said, leave the timing alone for now and just lean the **** out of the idle circuits till it barely runs. One trick that worked for me when my 1988 Fifth Avenue wouldn't pass (original cats were long burned-out) was putting a few gallons of E-85 in the tank. I'd guess it was around 60/40 premium (higher octane + better detergents also helps) gas to E-85. Worked like a charm and afterwards I just filled up the tank the rest of the way with regular gas and took it easy until that tank was empty.
 
Have used 50/50 mix of e85 every year in our 94 dodge 2500 to pass. Then fill up the tank after the test
 
Joey4speed said:
Just search around for a shop that will do the right thing. The first shop didn't do him any favors by failing him, now his VIN is in the system and Big Brother is watching.
I used to conduct NY state emissions inspections in the 80s and 90s, when tolerances were unreasonable and the state had a video camera watching over the bay.
I was able to wiggle results then, I'm sure it can be done today.
Ya know, a few limited use classic cars aren't gonna amount to much CO or HCs in this world.
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That right there is the elephant of a great point, and one I've been preaching for years.
 
CA inspections are tight assed bitc#es. you can fail with a simple visual (broken/cracked preheater hose) so no laying the PCV on the cover or even retarding the timing. Everything is checked to a master book that even shows idle speed and timing. My 'Federal" B2000 threw a few guys for a loop. It was a mechanic lein sale here so somehow it could retain its 49 state Fed emission profile and that year, the CA pickups had a smog pump while this one didn't. One guy said he couldnt test it. Another failed me because his CA book didnt have the Evap shutter vacuum line listed. One tested it and could not figure out how the 15 mph roller test was exceeding the RPM limit (what a dumb ***, just test the F'n thing in 2nd?) Nope, cant do that, the test says it must remain in L or first gear. Yeah, this is California we are talking about. Off to the referee to sign me off to authorize it to test in 2nd. Then he finds too much O2 in the exhaust,,,uh, what? Pinholes in the exhaust caused that and I definately had a few, with a rotted muffler. I think I got everything straightened out now on that turd. My only fear is high NOx level as the head as milled .030 to clean up some corrosion and I didnt install the recommended "spacer" that Mazda says to use if you mill the head. In a pinch Ill just run 2 head gaskets.
 
pishta said:
CA inspections are tight assed bitc#es. you can fail with a simple visual (broken/cracked preheater hose) so no laying the PCV on the cover or even retarding the timing. Everything is checked to a master book that even shows idle speed and timing. My 'Federal" B2000 threw a few guys for a loop. It was a mechanic lein sale here so somehow it could retain its 49 state Fed emission profile and that year, the CA pickups had a smog pump while this one didn't. One guy said he couldnt test it. Another failed me because his CA book didnt have the Evap shutter vacuum line listed. One tested it and could not figure out how the 15 mph roller test was exceeding the RPM limit (what a dumb ***, just test the F'n thing in 2nd?) Nope, cant do that, the test says it must remain in L or first gear. Yeah, this is California we are talking about. Off to the referee to sign me off to authorize it to test in 2nd. Then he finds too much O2 in the exhaust,,,uh, what? Pinholes in the exhaust caused that and I definately had a few, with a rotted muffler. I think I got everything straightened out now on that turd. My only fear is high NOx level as the head as milled .030 to clean up some corrosion and I didnt install the recommended "spacer" that Mazda says to use if you mill the head. In a pinch Ill just run 2 head gaskets.
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In WA state, I must have gone thru emissions at least a 100 times, and NOBODY ever looked under the hood.
 
Does anybody have a recommended shop around Phoenix? I can’t see why he even needs this done on a 1973 car. Thanks. Kim
 
pishta said:
CA inspections are tight assed bitc#es. you can fail with a simple visual (broken/cracked preheater hose) so no laying the PCV on the cover or even retarding the timing. Everything is checked to a master book that even shows idle speed and timing. My 'Federal" B2000 threw a few guys for a loop. It was a mechanic lein sale here so somehow it could retain its 49 state Fed emission profile and that year, the CA pickups had a smog pump while this one didn't. One guy said he couldnt test it. Another failed me because his CA book didnt have the Evap shutter vacuum line listed. One tested it and could not figure out how the 15 mph roller test was exceeding the RPM limit (what a dumb ***, just test the F'n thing in 2nd?) Nope, cant do that, the test says it must remain in L or first gear. Yeah, this is California we are talking about. Off to the referee to sign me off to authorize it to test in 2nd. Then he finds too much O2 in the exhaust,,,uh, what? Pinholes in the exhaust caused that and I definately had a few, with a rotted muffler. I think I got everything straightened out now on that turd. My only fear is high NOx level as the head as milled .030 to clean up some corrosion and I didnt install the recommended "spacer" that Mazda says to use if you mill the head. In a pinch Ill just run 2 head gaskets.
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bcschief said:
In Florida we don't have Inspections.
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Too bad.
The human factor. Gotta find a place with a guy that's not motivated by rules and regulations or on a power trip, drinking too much Kool-aid.
There is a reasonable way to handle this, discreetly, with the right person.
 
oldkimmer said:
Does anybody have a recommended shop around Phoenix? I can’t see why he even needs this done on a 1973 car. Thanks. Kim
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Back to the OPs question.
Somebody must know somebody who can help this guy in Pheonix?

Yea Kim, it prob goes by the county in AZ where the car is registered, some counties are more stringent than others.
 
Joey4speed said:
Back to the OPs question.
Somebody must know somebody who can help this guy in Pheonix?

Yea Kim, it prob goes by the county in AZ where the car is registered, some counties are more stringent than others.
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This is a Canadian car. It has Canadian plates and insurance on it. But he said it needs the emissions test for him to get plates down there. Does this sound right? Kim
 
Back in the early 90's i had a 77 Buick Electra with a 403. hogged out the cat. couldn't get it to pass. Added 6 bottles of isopropyl alcohol on 1/8 tank. Worked great...burned fast. Buddy told me to keep a gas can in the trunk. Glad i did.
 
He should have done some research before purchasing car. Why would anyone have a hipo engine built to be tested for emissions? Out of state purchase is 1 thing, out of country??
How the hell did he get it across the border?
@6pk2goDemon whom I havent seen here in a long time may be able to help?
 
oldkimmer said:
This is a Canadian car. It has Canadian plates and insurance on it. But he said it needs the emissions test for him to get plates down there. Does this sound right? Kim
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It is possible. In most states they have Emmissions inspections on top of the standard Safety Inspection. But the Emmissions inspections are regulated by each county.
For instance here in NC, 22 counties require annual Emmissions testing. Luckily my 69 is exempt, quote from NC website:

If your car is at least 20 years old, you'll no longer need to get it tested for emissions in North Carolina starting Dec. 1. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency this fall agreed with state legislators that it's not necessary to test the emissions equipment on cars and trucks older than 20 years.Nov 25, 2019
 
Here in Ontario they have scrapped emission testing altogether on used vehicles.
Joey4speed said:
It is possible. In most states they have Emmissions inspections on top of the standard Safety Inspection. But the Emmissions inspections are regulated by each county.
For instance here in NC, 22 counties require annual Emmissions testing. Luckily my 69 is exempt, quote from NC website:

If your car is at least 20 years old, you'll no longer need to get it tested for emissions in North Carolina starting Dec. 1. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency this fall agreed with state legislators that it's not necessary to test the emissions equipment on cars and trucks older than 20 years.Nov 25, 2019
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@oldkimmer,
Looks like there's only 2 counties in AZ that require Emmissions testing. Maricopa and Pima counties, which unfortunately includes the city of Phoenix, not sure how his car falls into this BS.
From their website:
As of 2007, Arizona legislature and the EPA have agreed to allow collector cars, that are at least 15 years old but newer than 1966, to receive emission testing exemptions. Cars produced in 1966 and earlier are exempt from emissions testing altogether.
 
If I read it right Joey it has to be registered as a "collector car"??
"As of 2007, Arizona legislature and the EPA have agreed to allow collector cars, that are at least 15 years old but newer than 1966, to receive emission testing exemptions. Cars produced in 1966 and earlier are exempt from emissions testing altogether."
Joey4speed said:
@oldkimmer,
Looks like there's only 2 counties in AZ that require Emmissions testing. Maricopa and Pima counties, which unfortunately includes the city of Phoenix, not sure how his car falls into this BS.
From their website:
As of 2007, Arizona legislature and the EPA have agreed to allow collector cars, that are at least 15 years old but newer than 1966, to receive emission testing exemptions. Cars produced in 1966 and earlier are exempt from emissions testing altogether.
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I guess it's like in some states, you can register your classic with "antique" license plates.
That can releive you from Emmissions inspections requirements but in part, you're supposed to only go to and from exhibitions or parades.
 
4spdragtop said:
He should have done some research before purchasing car. Why would anyone have a hipo engine built to be tested for emissions? Out of state purchase is 1 thing, out of country??
How the hell did he get it across the border?
@6pk2goDemon whom I havent seen here in a long time may be able to help?
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This is the car I built in 2020 for him. He has had it 35 years atleast. Kim
 
Sounds like the Emmissions issue is on him.
He should have requested a snappy 4 cylinder. Lol
 
To be exempt within Pima or Maricopa counties you must have collector car insurance which limits your milage to 2000-2500 miles a year
 
Joey4speed said:
Too bad.
The human factor. Gotta find a place with a guy that's not motivated by rules and regulations or on a power trip, drinking too much Kool-aid.
There is a reasonable way to handle this, discreetly, with the right person.
Click to expand...
Not here, the license is wayyy too lucrative to get busted on 1 car and lose it. I suppose it could be done but last tie i 'heard', it was $400. Forget plug in OBD2 cars, the VIN is tied to the test data and electronically transmitted. We do have the option of sending a gross polluter (registered in last year only) to a test and repair station and the state will kick in money to fix it. the repair cannot cost the shop more than like $600, My dirty Breeze got the bill: 598.60. and it barely passed by like 3 points on the NOx test. It had no EGR valve, the PCM did it somohow.
 
My late friend(an American citizen) was willed a Canadian '79 300. The car was built in Canada for Canada market, but shipped to MI for alterations(t-tops, I think), then shipped back to it's Canadian dealer.. It never had catalytics. When my friend tried to get it across the border, it was held up, at first, because it didn't have American market emissions equipment. But there was a technicality, that it was already allowed to cross the border during manufacture so I guess it was "grandfathered" in. It is kinda an extra special 300 because since it didn't have any catalytics(where all American 79 300's had DUAL catalytics) it was allowed to be made with driver AND PASSENGER electric seats because it has a differentfloor pan. Kinda cool story.
 
Joey4speed said:
Amen brother.
God bless DeSantaclause.
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Not really his doing because we haven't had vehicle inspection since 1977 That being said I would support having basic state safety inspection that we used to have but not the more intrusive one's like I have heard about in the north east US. Also no need for emissions inspection being mostly a peninsula all the bad air gets blown away there is no way we would ever look like LA in the 60s or early 70s. Funny thing I lived in the Houston area in the early 80s where they have vehicle inspection and I remember thinking I had never seen more vehicles with missing wheels sitting along side the highways.
 
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