emissions

[Princess Valiant]

i recently scored a 77 junkyard 440 and the seller made a comment that it was cleaned of all the emissions stuff for more horsepower.

my question is: do most ppl who remove the emissions stuff even know what it does.

is it proven that some emissions equip. really robs horsepower?

case in point ....the charchoal can always seems to be first in line to get get tossed ....YET....its function has positive benefits for quick startup and not releasing fumes so loosely. but then the smog pump brings into question the function of the catylitic convertor

EGR valve is another one ......it has more benefit than not

the smog pump i can see ....belt driven ....has to cost power ...but no worse than the 50 pounds of dead weight A/C compressor so many cars have:joker:

main point is : not all emissions equipment should be labeled as "smog junk" and removed....some of it actually works for something good. :tongue7:

 

[cudavert]

Well, one part that I also delete is if the engine has a vacuum spark advance disconnect.....you know, that thermal switch that cuts out vacuum advance until the coolant temp reaches a certain point......and that's mostly because I want simplicity and don't want any variable in the way that may fail.

I'm also not a huge fan of EGR valves. Maybe if the engine had high compression and it helped eliminate pinging, which I've never seen them do, all they seem to do is make the engine's drivability stumbley and jittery. Air pumps?.....weight, noise, complexity of belts/hoses, and a lot of the time the air injection tubes point right at the exhaust valve (cutting torch...lol),.

Carbon cannisters?......I don't mind them, but again.....less hoses to the carb is better.

 

[Lonewolf3165]

Charcoal canister is harmless, but adds nothing for performance. Most of the time it's removed for less clutter in an engine compartment.

EGR actually impedes combustion which reduces power so that's not desired in a performance build.

An air pump is used to promote better burning in the catalytic converter(s), so if you're not running them on your car there's no use for the air pump.

I"m not advocating removing the emissions equipment if you live in a state that requires you to have them on your car. Just shedding some light on why they are removed in performance builds.

 

[Bulldozer]

theres already an EGR debate going http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=236001

there are no emissions tests or inspections here in the springs. I take full advantage of that and yank all that junk off. I certainly don't add it to my fresh builds. quick starts are a combination of optimized timing , mixture , fuel and spark. I can stand outside the car , hit the key , and it will fire immediately without any smog crap.

 

[67Dart273]

The great part of Chrysler's strategy was a leaned carburetor, modified cam timing, and retarded/ slow spark curve. So if you "cam up" an engine, install a nice carb, and recurve or replace the distributor, you've already gotten rid of most of the emissions gear.

 

[ESP47]

Charcoal canisters are good to keep. They might clutter things a little bit but why not help the environment if it doesn't hurt performance? EGR valves are fine as long as they are working properly.

Pretty much everything else smog wise is junk.

 

[inkjunkie]

Depends on what side of then fence you are on but some will argue that ALL emission equipment is useful.......look at a few of today's muscle cars versus yesteryears. Low emissions, good fuel economy on unleaded fuel. Look at pretty much any high compression muscle car, tail pipe emissions and mileage wise. Sure it has everything to do with modern day engine controls. But the point is today's hot rods will run circles around most muscle cars, while polluting far less and drinking a lot less fuel...

 

[Rice Nuker]

I personally like the heat transfer within the intake manifold (exhaust crossover) for drivability and throttle response on carburetor engines (manifold wetting, the associated delays and variables) but lots of aftermarket units do not have. EGR and smog pump are pointless to performance.
I am keeping my charcoal canister to absorb fuel vapor as it is expelled from the tank rather than having a fuel smelling car sitting around in the garage. I may even run a tube from my TQ bowl vent to the canister to capture vapor shooting out the carb after shutdown, for the same reason (factory setup).

 

[SSVDP]

This is one goes under the spotting the ole timer heading. Most of what was done for emmissions before about 1984 did effect drive ability and performance - even the charcoal canister ( on a hot restart you can get an over rich condititon). Now it is all so well integrated with today's electronic engine control systems that this isn't an issue on current cars. Today's cars run so well and are so clean the emmissions concern is not with new cars but with ones at 150,000 miles!

 

[RustyRatRod]

Charcoal canisters may add nothing for performance, but they can certainly pick up MPG by recycling gas vapors back into the tank where they consense back into fuel.

GREAT SCORE Rani!

 

[rumblefish360]

As noted about the EGR valve impeding combustion, while there is a truth to this, most everyone ethier doesn't know or forgets that the valve closes due to lack of vacuum so that at a heavy foot acceleration or a WOT, the valve closes allowing no exhaust gas into the mix. At a low steady cruise or slight acceleration, the valve is open. You can bu. put a vacuum to it and read where it opens. Then you know. (I forget where mine deactivated.)

On the carb, TQ's are most prone to poor running when the equipment is disconnected and the rest of the engine is tweaked even a little. This leans the carb out even more than a normal running carb. This is where the nightmare begins and the TQ bashing starts. Mostly due to the stupid not addressing the carb.

 

[Hersbird]

For once I'd like to see what a major car maker could do today with performance and feul economy if they could make a car however they wanted with no regard to EPA, DOT, and NHTSB rules and regulations. People say the emissions don't hurt but I bet you could pick up a bunch of mileage or performance as well as significantly lower the cost if it were designed from the start to be that way. Think a stripped down Turbo diesel with awesome aerodynamics for the price of a new basic Kia. Yeah maybe not the safest thing on the road to the occupants but safer then a motorcycle and you don't get wet in the rain.

 

[/6 Matt]

Here is everything you need to know rani

http://slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25233#25233

 

[Hersbird]

www.myfoxdc.com/story/22462597/dc-a...ing-shooting-victim-to-hospital#axzz2UpTOswiX
So here is a great example of over-zelious emission rules. So the ambulance actually was not allowed to run because of a fault in the emission system. The ambulance was perfectly capable of running but because the system thought it might be polluting to much it is dead on the side of the road. Not a warning light but complete shutdown of the engine. So fire and ambulance might get a blessing from the feds to not have such systems but what about the rest of us? Do you want your 17 year old daughter on the side of the road because of a system like this?

 

[Jarlaxle]

Charcoal canister is harmless, but adds nothing for performance. Most of the time it's removed for less clutter in an engine compartment.

EGR actually impedes combustion which reduces power so that's not desired in a performance build.

No, that's wrong! EGR does NOTHING at WOT and costs ZERO power. It shuts off at low vacuum. It DOES reduce pinging and allows more timing at part-throttle. I will ADD it to any engine I built that was not a race motor!

An air pump is used to promote better burning in the catalytic converter(s), so if you're not running them on your car there's no use for the air pump.

No,. that's wrong! Many cars had AIR pumps with no cats! (AIR pumps showed up around 1968.)

I"m not advocating removing the emissions equipment if you live in a state that requires you to have them on your car. Just shedding some light on why they are removed in performance builds.

Usually...ignorance.

 

[RustyRatRod]

You're not gonna make many friends callin people ignorant.

 

[inkjunkie]

open an llc in Montana. No emissions, no sales tax on any car you buy and permanent tags on anything 12 years old. Can do the whole thing thru the mail.....

 

[Hersbird]

Yep, I deliver mail in Montana and there are a few law firms here that specialize in this. Usually for high end RVs witch also count as 2nd homes, no sales tax and lower priced registration. These law firms get 100's of letters in different names when a RV themed mailing comes out.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Other states are starting to crack down on that now...offhand, Iowa, Colorado, California, and Utah come to mind.

 

[Hersbird]

They can try, but the full faith and credit clause of the constitution makes that difficult. What are they going to do outlaw cars and rvs with Montana plates? Ban their residents from starting an official LLC in Montana? Lots of big corporations set up "official headquarters" in different states because of special laws in that state, why can't the little guy get a break for once?

 

[inkjunkie]

http://www.49dollarmontanaregisteredagent.com/.....MT is anonymous. An LLC, being pass thru will have 0 effect on any ones taxes as well.

 

[Jarlaxle]

They can try, but the equal protection clause of the constitution makes that difficult. What are they going to do outlaw cars and rvs with Montana plates? Ban their residents from starting an official LLC in Montana? Lots of big corporations set up "official headquarters" in different states because of special laws in that state, why can't the little guy get a break for once?

They can require any vehicle garaged in the state to be tagged there. That is common, legal, and has been enforced. Massachusetts cracked down on people tagging their cars in NH, RI, and Florida a few years ago. Everyone who fought it lost.

 

[67Dart273]

They can require any vehicle garaged in the state to be tagged there. That is common, legal, and has been enforced. Massachusetts cracked down on people tagging their cars in NH, RI, and Florida a few years ago. Everyone who fought it lost.

I grew up in the N. of Idaho panhandle, and it was common for guys to cross over to Montana and work at one of the lumber mills across the border. You used to see cars with an Idaho plate (resident) with a Montana plate in the rear window. The Montana fuzz would sit outside the mill or other large employer at shift change, and ticket anyone without Montana plates.

I don't see this anymore, so THAT much may be no longer.

 

[Hersbird]

They can require any vehicle garaged in the state to be tagged there. That is common, legal, and has been enforced. Massachusetts cracked down on people tagging their cars in NH, RI, and Florida a few years ago. Everyone who fought it lost.

I doubt any of those cars was registered to an out of state LLC Do all the Uhaul and ryder trucks rented there have local plates? I doubt it, because they are all registered somewhere else and used all over the country. It's especially impossible to enforce with RVs as they are 2nd homes, homes that can go anywhere in the nation. If the other states don't like people choosing which state they should fix their laws not try and treat people from another state like they are not part of the USA. I also spent 11 years in the military and know for a fact you never had to register where you were stationed, LLC or not, and I never lived on base.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Ryder, yes! We use Ryder trucks at work, and EVERY ONE OF THEM is tagged in the state where it is based. (My current truck is a loaner from Portland, and has Maine plates.) U-Haul apportions their trucks, all are tagged in Arizona. (Apportioned plates fall under Federal regulations.) States can (and do) require anyone staying there for a certain period (30-90 days is the usual) to tag their vehicles in that state...it IS legal, it CAN be enforced, and if you fight it, you WILL lose! Unless you put apportioned plates on your RV (making it a commercial vehicle), you're screwed. It really is that simple.