Finally the decision has been made.

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I agree with Rusty on the Vitron seals, I got those mixed up with the Teflon ones. I had to have the pad cut down so the inner spring would fit. The pad was .100 high. I just had to remove that and didnt have to cut them down into the head to get the installed height
 
Just curious what tool do you guys use to cut the height of the guides? All the cutters I see from comp cut the dia not the height!?
 
RustyRatRod said:
"I" would get "a little better" balancer "than that". I would recommend one like this:

24278 Mopar Chrysler 318 360 Pro Street Harmonic balancer Int/Ext | eBay

Internal OR external balance (it has a removable weight). Plus, it's marked to 60*. That makes it easy to get a good performance initial and total timing tune.
Click to expand...
I like that one too and I'm not sure but it's close to the one I have if not the one. Again my suggestion was just a little bit more budget-minded I guess. Or he could save on now and slap one on later like I did when I spun mine.
 
318willrun said:
dartfreak, your going to have a stout runner :)
Click to expand...
Thank you I figured since I have to spend the money anyways I might as well spend it on what I really want the first time around! The whole point of the 318 was to slap something together for 150 bucks just to get the car drivable asap. The plan was to have it running by fall. I started back in may. But I kept running into issues and problems and one thing lead to another with the 318 and I was looking at a 300 dollar machine bill and 404 dollar pistons and 160 dollar cam and so on and so forth. Then there was the whole thought of just buying another engine. The cheapest one I could find was 350 and it was still no guarantee that it wouldn't need machine work or new pistons as well. So I figured wth let's just do the long term plan now! Its gonna cost more and take longer I'm using my entire car budget on just the engine which means no paint for a while. Hahaha its all good tho it will be worth it in the long run I know I will be happier with it. Rather than having a bone stock 318.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Just curious what tool do you guys use to cut the height of the guides? All the cutters I see from comp cut the dia not the height!?
Click to expand...
Right, they are meant to cut the guide's OD to fit Viton or Teflon aftermarket type seals. I don't see anything wrong, on a budget, to grind them with a Dremel, and if needed, trim the umbrella seals to match. They'll still do their job that way, which is to shed most of the oil off the side and down past the guides.
 
nm9stheham said:
Right, they are meant to cut the guide's OD to fit Viton or Teflon aftermarket type seals. I don't see anything wrong, on a budget, to grind them with a Dremel, and if needed, trim the umbrella seals to match. They'll still do their job that way, which is to shed most of the oil off the side and down past the guides.
Click to expand...
Yea that's what I'm gonna do.
 
Make the final valve spring decision first. If you end out with true dual springs, then you'll have no choice but to turn down the guide OD and use Viton seals.

FWIW, i've always thought the length of the umbrella is just to make sure they extend below the top of the guide when they ride up on the stems.
 
nm9stheham said:
Make the final valve spring decision first. If you end out with true dual springs, then you'll have no choice but to turn down the guide OD and use Viton seals.

FWIW, i've always thought the length of the umbrella is just to make sure they extend below the top of the guide when they ride up on the stems.
Click to expand...
Yea that is what I am researching right now! You read my mind lol I am doing alot of reading and studying about springs I plan on starting a new thread on the topic but I am reading up first so I kinda know what I'm talking about.
What I gather so far. Is the bind height is the max effective lift. So for example if my installed height is 1.65 the bind height is 1.1 the max effective lift for those springs will be .550 then you have the spring rate I'm still researching that
 
nm9stheham said:
Make the final valve spring decision first. If you end out with true dual springs, then you'll have no choice but to turn down the guide OD and use Viton seals.

FWIW, i've always thought the length of the umbrella is just to make sure they extend below the top of the guide when they ride up on the stems.
Click to expand...
Btw do you know if the umbrella seals will work with the dampers or not?
 
stumblinhorse said:
I mentioned the valve springs in one of your other posts? You said better springs were taken care of?
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I assume he is re-visiting since going up 2 steps in cam size. Since the 1st set of heads may be the small 302's then it will have a hard time revving very high and I would think that the 901 single springs with damper would be more than adequate.
dartfreak75 said:
Btw do you know if the umbrella seals will work with the dampers or not?
Click to expand...
Not 100% on that....but you have the 9091 spring, right? If you go to viton seals, then there are a few different sizes, but IIRC, you'll have no choice but to cut the guides down in diameter.
 
dartfreak75 said:
Yea that is what I am researching right now! You read my mind lol I am doing alot of reading and studying about springs I plan on starting a new thread on the topic but I am reading up first so I kinda know what I'm talking about.
What I gather so far. Is the bind height is the max effective lift. So for example if my installed height is 1.65 the bind height is 1.1 the max effective lift for those springs will be .550 then you have the spring rate I'm still researching that
Click to expand...
You need to add about .060" to the available compression to allow for some clearance to coil bind at max valve lift.

Spring rate is easy to figure:
  • Take the listed seated pressure and installed height and compare to the open pressure and that corresponding height
  • Subtract the seated pressure from open pressure
  • Subtract the open height from the seated height
  • Divide the difference in spring pressure by the difference in height
  • The result is spring rate in lb's/in
  • This applies for any 'straight rate' spring, i.e., a standard coil spring, including singles and duals, with or without dampers. (This does not apply to behives, which are progressive rate springs.)
 
On a budget what I found was the comp 926 singles using the rest of the stock guides, retainers and locks, is "good enuf" for a pretty decent cam. All bets are off if you are going around over 6k rpms a bunch. But for a simple street motor I am going to run a howards .502/.525 on 926 springs with hughes 1.5 rockers. I think that should do just fine.
 
stumblinhorse said:
I mentioned the valve springs in one of your other posts? You said better springs were taken care of?
Click to expand...
Yes the sprigs I bought are comp 901-16 I'm not sure they are going to work with the cam I have selected now. Those springs was intended to be used with the 701 lunati cam which as a lift of .454/.470 vs the 703 .494/.513
 
dartfreak75 said:
Yes the sprigs I bought are comp 901-16 I'm not sure they are going to work with the cam I have selected now. Those springs was intended to be used with the 701 lunati cam which as a lift of .454/.470 vs the 703 .494/.513
Click to expand...

Dartfreak,
This may or may not help you, I used Comp 995-16 springs on my "308" heads for my Lunati Voodoo cam.
COMP Cams Valve Springs 995-16

Granted this is a rollercammed 360 from 1990, so I'm using part #20200711 and have been for almost 4 years.
(I should've went with 20200712 now that I think about it, oh well)
Part #20200711 specs are as follows:
  • Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 270/279
  • Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
  • Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .515/.530
  • LSA/ICL: 112/106
  • Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
  • RPM Range: 1800-5800
 
dartfreak75 said:
Thank you I figured since I have to spend the money anyways I might as well spend it on what I really want the first time around! The whole point of the 318 was to slap something together for 150 bucks just to get the car drivable asap. The plan was to have it running by fall. I started back in may. But I kept running into issues and problems and one thing lead to another with the 318 and I was looking at a 300 dollar machine bill and 404 dollar pistons and 160 dollar cam and so on and so forth. Then there was the whole thought of just buying another engine. The cheapest one I could find was 350 and it was still no guarantee that it wouldn't need machine work or new pistons as well. So I figured wth let's just do the long term plan now! Its gonna cost more and take longer I'm using my entire car budget on just the engine which means no paint for a while. Hahaha its all good tho it will be worth it in the long run I know I will be happier with it. Rather than having a bone stock 318.
Click to expand...

Usually, them 150 dollar plans don't work out too well. Usually. There is that rare exception.
 
stumblinhorse said:
On a budget what I found was the comp 926 singles using the rest of the stock guides, retainers and locks, is "good enuf" for a pretty decent cam. All bets are off if you are going around over 6k rpms a bunch. But for a simple street motor I am going to run a howards .502/.525 on 926 springs with hughes 1.5 rockers. I think that should do just fine.
Click to expand...
Do the stock seals work as well or did you have the guides cut for positive seals?
 
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