Fresh engine, wiped cam? Tick? (new pics added)

[64SignetConv]

I'm with Cudafever on this - I see nothing about the cam wear that looks out of line. One thing I have not seen anyone ask - if the heads were done, did they check the spring installed height of the valves? Grinding a valve seat makes the valve sit 'deeper' in the port, thereby raising the installed height of the end of the valve stem. If material is not ground off of the end of the valve to compensate, the rocker arm (simple first-class lever) reverses the direction and pushes the pushrod too deep into the lifter. When I was still in the dealership, we had a special Miller tool for checking installed height - harder to do now that springs are on, but MoparDave's suggestions for checking pushrod length seem to be right on track. A reasonable check of installed height can be done with the depth gauge on a vernier caliper ($25 for a digital one - money well spent)

 

[64SignetConv]

BTW - to get any one cylinder on the base circle, find its running mate (the piston that is at TDC at the same time but on the opposite stroke) and watch for the valves to be in the "rock" position - i.e. exhaust closing and intake opening. This means the piston is coming up on exhaust, so its running mate is aproaching TDC on compression - both valves must be closed, meaning the lifters are on the base circle. To find the running mates Write the first four cylinder numbers in a row (1 8 4 3) then write the next four underneath them (6 5 7 2) - 1 mates with 6, 8 with 5 etc.

Good luck!

 

[mopar340dave]

good stuff 64!

I'm learning some stuff here too!

 

[T67POWER]

It might have been just a bad lifter.
I would buy summit lifters = $3.00 a piece.
How much did they mill the block and heads????
From what i read, i think you only had a problem with one ticking sound right???
One sound = one part :thumrigh:
If you don't remember in what lifter bore each lifter came out of ,then get new lifters.
You can't use them again if the order is not the same.
Each lifter has the pattern of the lobe it was broken in on.
If you put them in the wrong lifter bore, it can ruin the camshaft.
I used paw lifters on my 318 and they worked great.
They are the same one's that summit sells.They are made by johnson.
What purple shaft is your cam????

 

[mopar340dave]

its a lunati, he mentioned it in earlier posts. whats your opinion of the wear patterns, T67? there are pics on page 2 (but I think you know that)

 

[T67POWER]

The wear pattern looks fine.

I am a little confused though???
This was a new motor with new parts???
How did they get rusty if they were brand new???
I hate to say it, but if he bought a lunati cam and never took it out of the box and looked at it,maybe the shop took his lunati cam and put a purple shaft in his motor instead or someone sent the lunati cam back as a return and switched the cam in the box.

THAT IS A PURPLE SHAFT CAM \\\\ IT'S MOPAR PURPLE.

I just called a friends shop because he installed a new lunati cam in his 340 and was wondering if they paint there mopar cam's purple by chance.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((That answer was NO.)))))))))))))))))))))))))

I would bring the owner of the shop over to your house and show him the purple paint and DON'T say anything about being possibly boxed wrong.
Let the owner explain how a mopar performance cam was used instead of the lunati cam you bought.
THINK ABOUT IT #-oWHY WOULD A SHOP INSTALL A RUSTY USED CAM OUT OF A BRAND NEW BOX.
If it was switched ,maby the owner of the shop doesn't even know about it.:-k
A good shop will take care of the problem.

 

[Dusterdude72]

The wear pattern looks fine.

I am a little confused though???
This was a new motor with new parts???
How did they get rusty if they were brand new???
I hate to say it, but if he bought a lunati cam and never took it out of the box and looked at it,maybe the shop took his lunati cam and put a purple shaft in his motor instead or someone sent the lunati cam back as a return and switched the cam in the box.

THAT IS A PURPLE SHAFT CAM \\\\ IT'S MOPAR PURPLE.

I just called a friends shop because he installed a new lunati cam in his 340 and was wondering if they paint there mopar cam's purple by chance.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((That answer was NO.)))))))))))))))))))))))))

I would bring the owner of the shop over to your house and show him the purple paint and DON'T say anything about being possibly boxed wrong.
Let the owner explain how a mopar performance cam was used instead of the lunati cam you bought.
THINK ABOUT IT #-oWHY WOULD A SHOP INSTALL A RUSTY USED CAM OUT OF A BRAND NEW BOX.
If it was switched ,maby the owner doesn't even know about it.:-k
A good shop will take care of the problem.

Thats what I was curious about also.

still unclear on everything I have just been trying to toss out some ideas that may help.

I just found out its a 360 and I just found out that its a stroker making it a??? and I just found out about the oil issue and cam break in issue and things like that so its unsure to say what exactly the deal is untill everyone can be positive about everything the engine has (spec wise) and what was new and what was done (machine wise) and if the people who built it knew what they were doing.

then it will be easier for everyone to help diagnose the problem and what caused it and give a better idea of what needs to be done to fix the problem.

as said before, if something isnt right and you just tossed new parts back in it....it will just do it again and ruin your new parts.

 

[mopar head]

The wear pattern looks fine.

I am a little confused though???
This was a new motor with new parts???
How did they get rusty if they were brand new???
I hate to say it, but if he bought a lunati cam and never took it out of the box and looked at it,maybe the shop took his lunati cam and put a purple shaft in his motor instead or someone sent the lunati cam back as a return and switched the cam in the box.

THAT IS A PURPLE SHAFT CAM \\\\ IT'S MOPAR PURPLE.

I just called a friends shop because he installed a new lunati cam in his 340 and was wondering if they paint there mopar cam's purple by chance.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((That answer was NO.)))))))))))))))))))))))))

I would bring the owner of the shop over to your house and show him the purple paint and DON'T say anything about being possibly boxed wrong.
Let the owner explain how a mopar performance cam was used instead of the lunati cam you bought.
THINK ABOUT IT #-oWHY WOULD A SHOP INSTALL A RUSTY USED CAM OUT OF A BRAND NEW BOX.
If it was switched ,maby the owner doesn't even know about it.:-k
A good shop will take care of the problem.

I noticed the purple too, but did`nt put 2 together. good catch! I stamped and recorded #`s on my stuff and made sure they were there, when I picked it up. this will be interesting:clock:

 

[abodyjoe]

weird. my mp cam had purple on the entire thing..

 

[mopar340dave]

purple shaft cams are purple full length between the lobes and bearing surfaces...those are not.


Like Joe said!!!

 

[bigdemo1]

My 508 was only purple about 1/3 of the length and I bought it right from mopar.

 

[mopar340dave]

Minor surface rust kinda sux but is not uncommon. The oil that is applied to the cam for protection is pretty light....it contains solvent which will evaporate over time. Sadly, our economy sucks and that cam may very well be years old.

 

[mopar340dave]

weird. my mp cam had purple on the entire thing..

Zoom in on Joes wear pattern and think about the shape and loaction of the cam lobe in relation to the lifter location and its convex shape.

Though the pic aint perfect, his wear pattern appears to be!

 

[T67POWER]

I have used many purple shaft cams with some being painted with purple paint the hole length of the cam, and some were painted with only a little paint on one end or the other.

Did you buy this motor from the shop or did you own this motor before the rebuild??
How is it that your just learning it's a stroker????

They selected all the parts for this motor and you bought it right???

 

[T67POWER]

I zoomed in on that photo and the pattern looks normal but what is that piece of debris in the second block hole laying on the cam???

 

[mopar340dave]

T67,save it, draw an arrow and repost it, I can't see it...


Good News!

I told ya to call em, but i couldnt wait...so i did. I explained what has been going on and he has been to the site and seen the pics. He said to put it back together after checking the pushrod length.
He also said it just depends on the cam cores as to wether or not they are painted. It does appear to be a lunati cam.


If the pushrods are too long, just shim the shafts up.
find out what your machinist/engine builder did with his machine on your heads and block....as in...how much was milled off of each. this amount is exactly how much you need to shim the rockers shafts...but only theoretically. This is only true if your pushrods were the perfect length to begin with....so in other words, check them the way I said earlier.

With the pushrod length issue taken care of, reassemble your engine and start it. I would pour a bottle of stp or cam break in lube on the whole cam valley before putting the intake on and use a quality diesel oil. 15-40 is fine.

After doing that fire it up and redo the 3000 rpm for 20 mins deal. Half way through you can vary the throttle a bit, but smoothly and not above 3500.
Shut it off and ask yourself, "was there any weird sounds that were not exhaust leaks?"
If the answer is no, pull your passenger side valve cover and have someone start it...if your pushrods are rotating...you are good to go!

If they are not, call Shane at Lunati and he will hook you up! Seriously! They seem to be good guys and they stand behind their products.

Shane at lunati Tech Line
662-892-1500

 

[mopar340dave]

I zoomed in on that photo and the pattern looks normal but what is that piece of debris in the second block hole laying on the cam???

I see it now...casting flash that should have been removed but never was.

Looks odd, mos def! but it will not hurt anything

 

[myasylum]

Well guys... This seems to get MORE confusing...

So 2 guys think that the cam is bad, and 3 think it's good?
I almost thought that MAYBE the wear pattern is like that because there is only 250mi on it. maybe in time it would start to wear more evenly? I don't know? Just a crazy thought.

I bought this cam myself from Summit. Unless the cam was switched in the box, it is the cam that was there when they installed it. I was there. I brought the engine into the shop due to really bad pitting on the pistons and known mileage, This engine is 60 over too. Here is the picture I took as it was being put together. The "rust" marks inside the block are already there.

 

[T67POWER]

I just called lunati and THEY DO NOT PAINT THERE CAMS PURPLE.
The tec line had a girl named shannen anwser the phone, but i had here send my call into the tec department directly.
The person there said they are not painted.
I have received bad info right from the horses mouth before.
I think it's a purple shaft.
I have never seen a cam painted purple other then the mopar performance cam shafts.

I would buy new lifters and double check the amount of pre- load on the lifters and make shure they don't have to much pre load.

I think you had a bad lifter and that"s it.
You should talk to the shop that built it and go from there.

 

[myasylum]

Mopar340Dave-You Rule! I just missed your above post. I woke up this morning and I saw I had a bunch of post and i somehow missed that one. I just reread it. That is awesome! If you are ever on this side of the pond, let me know! I will definitely buy you some beers!
See I have kind of a bad cold, so this isn't helping my process of getting this done either.
At any rate...

I called Lunati as well. He didn't look at the post yet, or get back to me yet. However he did confirm that there is purple on their cams. He took one out of a box and looked... WTF???

I hope I am getting this pushrod thing? For whatever reason I'm nervous that I'm doing it wrong.
Should I get new lifters, just in case? They are fairly cheap. I should be able to use the new pushrods I have without a problem, couldn't I?

 

[T67POWER]

My freind just bought a cam from lunati for his 340 and it was not purple.

You can check the lift with a dial indicator buy using a solid lifter and a adjustable rocker.

Then there's always the part # on the cam.

Oh buy the way i called lunati a second time and talked to shane THIS TIME and he said the small block cams are painted purple.
I MADE TWO PHONE CALLS TO THE SAME COMPANY AND GOT TWO PEOPLE WITH TWO DIFFERENT ANSWERS.:roll:
Anyways \\\\\\\\\\\ good luck8)

 

[moper]

I dont like the wear pattern on the two lobes I asked about. Not to say it's bad, but that's my opinion... The wear is not what I would expect or want to see. In regard to rust.. That's a surface treatment some cams come with. It's not a big deal. As far as what you should do, I'd figure out why the wear is that way and replace the cam without hesitation. It's not worth risking the rest of the build. Right now, there's no additional schrapnel. If the wear continues that way I think there will be. But regardless you need to make sure everything is "right", and the break in procedure is followed and the engine starts immediately. No preoiling with the starter, and no using the starter to prime the fuel system.

 

[stroked 340]

The wear pattern looks fine.

I am a little confused though???
This was a new motor with new parts???
How did they get rusty if they were brand new???
I hate to say it, but if he bought a lunati cam and never took it out of the box and looked at it,maybe the shop took his lunati cam and put a purple shaft in his motor instead or someone sent the lunati cam back as a return and switched the cam in the box.

THAT IS A PURPLE SHAFT CAM \\\\ IT'S MOPAR PURPLE.

I just called a friends shop because he installed a new lunati cam in his 340 and was wondering if they paint there mopar cam's purple by chance.
((((((((((((((((((((((((((((That answer was NO.)))))))))))))))))))))))))

I would bring the owner of the shop over to your house and show him the purple paint and DON'T say anything about being possibly boxed wrong.
Let the owner explain how a mopar performance cam was used instead of the lunati cam you bought.
THINK ABOUT IT #-oWHY WOULD A SHOP INSTALL A RUSTY USED CAM OUT OF A BRAND NEW BOX.
If it was switched ,maby the owner doesn't even know about it.:-k
A good shop will take care of the problem.

FYI..Lunati and Mopar both use the same cores..hense the purple color.this i got straight from the mouth of Lunati cams,and i have used 3 different Lunati "voodoo" cams all three were PURPLE!!!

 

[Dusterdude72]

I see alot of people saying that the "rust" on the came is from the companys factory lube to keep rust off and some people saying that its because its an older cam that has been sitting in the warehouse and has gathered minor surface rust over the years.

Either way, I wouldnt put it in my engine.

If it came rusty and had a rough feeling to it....that cam would be on its way back.....and if its just minor rust floating in the factorys lube that they use to prevent rust....it should ALWAYS be wiped off prior to being put into an engine....the factorys lube can contaminate oil and actually somewhat repels oil which creates a barrier between the cam and oil.

I always wipe my came down and spray it off with parts cleaner and install it with fresh engine assembly lube.

just like when you get bearings you are not suppose to even touch the mating surface because the oil residue on your finger and contaminate the coating on the bearing and thin it out.....or like when you get brake rotors ....you are suppose to clean them off with brake cleaner first becuase they are coated in the factorys oil which is only good for fighting rust ...not ment to be used as a lube.

alot of guys don't believe in alot of that stuff but I have been told this by multiple long time local engine builders and I have also read it in a magazine or two.

however I am still not sure if the cam is the problem or not....could be lifter, really need to know all the specs on the engine build and you need to go through and check all the things everyone has mentioned before you will know for sure what the problem is.

sorry for the long message

 

[myasylum]

Well... day 2.

Well... It's now seems as though one person has gone off the "get a new cam" train, and another one has gone on board. I think 2 people said to get a new cam, and 5 have said that the cam is just fine.

O.k. I think I checked the Pre-load! I think I did this right... I loosened the two rockers just so they were loose, I then tightened them a 1/4 turn until they were tight. I measured using paper, and used a micrometer to measure the paper, and it came out to about .015.

I tried to get new pictures of the lifters as requested, it is kind of hard because of the reflection. As you see, I used a ruler, and the do appear "flat", or at least to me??

So far... it seems to be coming down to the cam/ or lifters, or both.

Ah... I have to look at the springs yet. That was mentioned as well.