Future Motor of the Drag Truck, and a cool ole' Dude

[318willrun]

There’s really no point in continuing to deliberate what this or that combo will run in your truck.
I know what it took to get my 3670lb B body into the tens..... in terms of horsepower, gears, converter....... and it was pretty far removed from what you’re planning.
So, rather than continue to butt heads on it...... and since I know you’ve been playing with this stuff for many years...... I’m just going to let you find your own path....... just like I did when I decided I wanted to run 10’s.

Keep in mind, I'm ok if it doesn't go 10's. As I've said all along, wherever the cards fall may they lay. If it doesn't go past a 12.20, then so be it. I know how to go fast, but going fast on a salary cap is the fun part to me. I have no wager or pride or anything else on the line. Sheer fun is all.

 

[PRH]

When I was shooting for 10’s....... an 11.000 would have been unacceptable.

Fortunately, the combo I put together didn’t require me to work on it too hard to see the “10”.
Went 10.91 right off the trailer.

My motivation was one of my friends who struggled for a while in the low-11’s, chasing the 10’s with quite a bit of parts swapping before he finally broke through.
I gave him a fair amount of crap for that....... and he kept telling me it’s not all that easy.

My reply was...... “when I decide to run 10’s..... it won’t be a problem.
It’ll happen on the first day.”

 

[318willrun]

When I was shooting for 10’s....... an 11.000 would have been unacceptable.

Fortunately, the combo I put together didn’t require me to work on it too hard to see the “10”.
Went 10.91 right off the trailer.

My motivation was one of my friends who struggled for a while in the low-11’s, chasing the 10’s with quite a bit of parts swapping before he finally broke through.
I gave him a fair amount of crap for that....... and he kept telling me it’s not all that easy.

My reply was...... “when I decide to run 10’s..... it won’t be a problem.
It’ll happen on the first day.”

LOL.. nothing like showing up a friend. I was just looking at a Big Block Dart Swinger that runs 10.6's. Turn key car for 8900 bucks. Might have been able to buy it for 8000. I mean, the easiest way to go 10's is just buy a car already there. Not even dirty a knuckle. It's obvious I'm doing what I'm doing for funs.

 

[PRH]

I talked a lot of smack to another friend when I was working on a 340 to try in my car.
He had a pretty nice running GTO, and I was saying how I’d be all over him with my high winding 340 and 5.13’s.

By the time I had it in the car he was well into the mid-11’s, and I didn’t have that much confidence I could take him.
After a couple of time runs with the 340 on its first day out it was obvious I hadn’t “brung enough”.

So, we line up during a time shot........ and I was pretty determined to be the first to the finish line.
I know what I’m going to do.
We stage....... I’m gone on the first yellow!!
He sees it..... and takes off right after I did.
About 3/4 of the way down....... he motors on by.

Oh well....... can’t win em all.

 

[yellow rose]

And, I really don't need massive lift to get my numbers. .520 or so should really be all that's needed, so what the heads flow up to .500 lift is most important to me. When you look at cars like ValiantRacing, he's under .500 lift on a 318 and running 11.7's in street form with Eddy heads. Why not a little over .500 lift on a 440 (120 more cubic inches) and hope to gain .8 tenths? Wouldn't that be a 10.9 ? Sure, I'll be about 300 lbs heavier and more wind resistance, but, I mean, I should be in the ball park..... Unless 440's are just boat anchors that won't cross the street to save their own life (my brothers old GTX told me different if my memory serves me correct)... I've owned a couple big blocks, and pulled the heads and stuff, but never "built" a big block. I hope it don't make me wish I'd had built the 318 that's in the truck now... LOL

Please don’t use a head based on flow numbers. That is so wrong it’s crazy.

 

[318willrun]

Please don’t use a head based on flow numbers. That is so wrong it’s crazy.

in this case I'll use the head that best fits the budget. I'd rather go 11.9's on 5200 total spent than 10.9's on 6700 total spent.

 

[318willrun]

Please don’t use a head based on flow numbers. That is so wrong it’s crazy.

Just curious, how do you pick a head? I've never flowed a head in my life, I've always home-ported to what just made sense to me. But, all the racers, magazines, and manufactures talk about "flow @ lift".

 

[Mopar Sam]

Sun is out, and so was I. Son's Scat pack is still on the road, we replaced the harmonic balancer.

What did you use for a puller? I had to cobble one up when I did the wife's hemi.

 

[318willrun]

What did you use for a puller? I had to cobble one up when I did the wife's hemi.

15's and newer take the same puller as the old small block mopars

 

[Mopar Sam]

15's and newer take the same puller as the old small block mopars

Learn something new everyday!

 

[yellow rose]

Just curious, how do you pick a head? I've never flowed a head in my life, I've always home-ported to what just made sense to me. But, all the racers, magazines, and manufactures talk about "flow @ lift".

I look at cross section first. Air speed isn’t all that it’s cracked up to be UNLESS you can control it. The higher the air speed, the harder is is to get it go go around corners. And the short turn. That’s one reason why you see head break over and loose flow at higher lifts...the cross section can’t support the bowl and valve size.

That’s why the valve job is so important. I’ll give up flow to get a better shape for the seat and bowl than use a different valve job just to gain flow, especially if I know that valve job is veery good in reverse flow.

The cross section Chrysler chose for its heads was definately on the small side, which is one reason for the high Rod ratios. And the intended RPM and use of the engine.

I’ve said this before...I look at flow way down the list of things when choosing a head or port shape of valve job. FWIW, I can get about 300 FPS on well prepped heads before it gets in trouble, maybe a bit more, depending on a couple other things. Some guys claim they can do much higher than that. Other than Larry Meaux and Chad Spier, I don’t really trust what some of the others say.

 

[318willrun]

And the rockers they use are pretty cheap from SM.
Currently on sale for under $150.
Mopar Chrysler BB 383 440 1.6 Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms & Shafts (Offset .450)

I read a review where somebody bought these and needed .650 offset rockers (but only the intakes). Nothing on the Speedmaster site on this issue. These ones are supposed to be bushed rockers in the list of details, but states needle bearings in the description. LOL.
Mopar Chrysler BB 383 440 1.5 Aluminum Roller Rocker Arms & Shafts (Ofset .650)

 

[PRH]

The .650 offset will make it so less clearancing will be required compared to the .450.

They’re still cheap enough at $203.

Edelbrock originally had claimed the Victors would work with a .485 offset rocker(like what MP sold for some of the stage 6 heads)........ and as I recall, they would.......but barely.
And, after a fair amount of clearancing was done by the end user.

 

[PRH]

The ones I have here, that were run with a roller cam, don’t look like they had tons of clearancing done to them.

As I recall, these guys were running the SM rockers...... not sure if they were .450 or .650 offset though.
I think these heads are pretty old, and when they were bought I’m not sure the .650’s existed yet.
(Judging by where they’re ground on, I’d say they used the .450’s)

There’s also this info:
#2---Pro Comp Cylinder Heads

Oh...... and just to be clear..... I’m not “recommending” or “endorsing” the SM rockers....... just pointing them out to you and letting you decide on what to do.

Personally....... no Chinese rockers for me.

 

[318willrun]

The ones I have here, that were run with a roller cam, don’t look like they had tons of clearancing done to them.

As I recall, these guys were running the SM rockers...... not sure if they were .450 or .650 offset though.
I think these heads are pretty old, and when they were bought I’m not sure the .650’s existed yet.
(Judging by where they’re ground on, I’d say they used the .450’s)

There’s also this info:
#2---Pro Comp Cylinder Heads

Nice write up by hughes. I'm sure their rocker assemblies are of much great quality than the SM's, but about 800 bucks - Ouch!

 

[PRH]

The heads I have here were bought as a kit from some outfit that was pushing these things.
They came with valves that were .250 too long, and were 2.25/1.88 diameter, instead of the correct 2.20/1.81.
It’s the same situation as the kit bought in this thread:
my procomp experience, before you buy read this. [Archive] - BigBlockDart.Com

The big difference being, that guy caught the issues before running the heads.
These heads were being run with the too long/too big valves!!
It didn’t work out too good in the end.

 

[318willrun]

The heads I have here were bought as a kit from some outfit that was pushing these things.
They came with valves that were .250 too long, and were 2.25/1.88 diameter, instead of the correct 2.20/1.81.
It’s the same situation as the kit bought in this thread:
my procomp experience, before you buy read this. [Archive] - BigBlockDart.Com

The big difference being, that guy caught the issues before running the heads.
These heads were being run with the too long/too big valves!!
It didn’t work out too good in the end.

Nice read also. I'm gaining info and knowledge. Eventually, I'll know what recipe I'll use when it's time to build the 440.
Again, I always did my own heads, which were cast small block. Learning curve with these aftermarket aluminum BB heads for me...

 

[318willrun]

I grabbed something today out of the storage shed and gave the 440 a quick glance. Valve cover label for timing/etc said 1977, and the exhaust manifolds are dated 1977, so I assume it's a 1977.

 

[j par]

There’s really no point in continuing to deliberate what this or that combo will run in your truck.
I know what it took to get my 3670lb B body into the tens..... in terms of horsepower, gears, converter....... and it was pretty far removed from what you’re planning.
So, rather than continue to butt heads on it...... and since I know you’ve been playing with this stuff for many years...... I’m just going to let you find your own path....... just like I did when I decided I wanted to run 10’s.

What you’re outlining for a combo doesn’t sound like something that would go 10’s in a long bed truck to me........ but that’s why it’s interesting. You’re going to go about it in a different manner than I would.

I just wanted to point out that the heads were not MW size, in case that was the main reason you didn’t want to use them.

Translation: he doesn't have a snowball's chance.... ...

..

 

[j par]

Keep in mind, I'm ok if it doesn't go 10's. As I've said all along, wherever the cards fall may they lay. If it doesn't go past a 12.20, then so be it. I know how to go fast, but going fast on a salary cap is the fun part to me. I have no wager or pride or anything else on the line. Sheer fun is all.

Translation: LOL.. I was blowing wind up everybody's wazoo with tents on five......

 

[318willrun]

Translation: he doesn't have a snowball's chance.... ... View attachment 1715516579..

Translation: LOL.. I was blowing wind up everybody's wazoo with tents on five......

• Translation: When I put my stock 360 in my Duster with 2.45's, almost everyone said mid 15's, a few said 16's. When it went 13.9's, I heard "crickets chirping"... LOL. Polls, or somebody else's build will have ZERO impact on what this truck will run.
• Translation: We don't give a flying harpoon if it doesn't go 10's. I'm not fighting for ego, pride, or a 2500 dollar wager. This is what I stated from the beginning.... "An attempt to go 10's on 5k" Never once said "I'll show you all how it's done". It's a fun family project and we've had more fun with this than any Duster or Mustang so far this year. For those that can't understand that, my condolences. LOL

 

[318willrun]

Translation: he doesn't have a snowball's chance.... ... View attachment 1715516579..

Translation: LOL.. I was blowing wind up everybody's wazoo with tents on five......

And as you are always so gracious to thank me for my post in your threads, let me say "Thanks for contributing to the future motor of the Drag Truck". And as you so graciously take my "unwanted remarks" to the proper thread, feel free to take these remarks to the "10's on 5k" thread

 

[j par]

• Translation: When I put my stock 360 in my Duster with 2.45's, almost everyone said mid 15's, a few said 16's. When it went 13.9's, I heard "crickets chirping"... LOL. Polls, or somebody else's build will have ZERO impact on what this truck will run.
• Translation: We don't give a flying harpoon if it doesn't go 10's. I'm not fighting for ego, pride, or a 2500 dollar wager. This is what I stated from the beginning.... "An attempt to go 10's on 5k" Never once said "I'll show you all how it's done". It's a fun family project and we've had more fun with this than any Duster or Mustang so far this year. For those that can't understand that, my condolences. LOL

I like how you say in the end it's a fun family project which I'm sure it is but it cast The Shadow on me like I'm bashing you and your kids lol..
Although you have a stockpile of brand new parts do you want to file on old junk parts and see how fast they'll go more power to you... Because as you stated that's what you like doing... And as far as your 360 doing 13 threes okay we've heard it 100 x zippity dang... You did great... Now can we stop hearing about it every time you post LOL...

 

[j par]

And as you are always so gracious to thank me for my post in your threads, let me say "Thanks for contributing to the future motor of the Drag Truck". And as you so graciously take my "unwanted remarks" to the proper thread, feel free to take these remarks to the "10's on 5k" thread

This one is real rich LOL when can any of us contribute when you have 35 years experience and you made a car that was supposed to go 15 or 16 do low 13s? I mean that right there should tell us you know everything about what you doing so really any comments besides you're the greatest and you know what you're doing are worthless to you....
10's on 5.... that's how you started this before you bought the truck and that's still the budget you're trying to hold to...?
SO LET'S SEE IT...
Everybody who tries to help gets pushed back....
one indisputable fact between my threads and your threads is I actually do the things I talked about.. that's why I'm looking for help and real information...

 

[318willrun]

• This one is real rich LOL when can any of us contribute
• Everybody who tries to help gets pushed back....
• that's why I'm looking for help and real information...

LOL...

• some have contributed, but i haven't asked for help. Correct?
• Never said this was a "show you" project. This isn't the low dollar 318 thread.