Got my Cam Back from Oregon

[Dusty 997]

Fair enough no doubt I'm stuck in the past a bit. And if I was building a motor for the track I would be right there with your train of thought.

If you ask 20 different people how to do something youl get at least 10 different answers

 

[mopowers]

I know you’re long past this part but I think before I would switch to a bigger cam, I’d degree the one you have now. I installed a .218/.224 cam from Ken in my 5.9 magnum and I had planned to stick it in dot to dot but @RustyRatRod talked me into degreeing it and I’m glad he did. I had to set the timing set to 8* ADVANCED to get the cam centerline where it was intended to be. If yours is similar, I think you’ll notice quite a difference just by degreeing what you already have.

I bet that woke it right up!

 

[Newbomb Turk]

If you ask 20 different people how to do something youl get at least 10 different answers

Exactly. You have to do what makes you happy. Not what makes me happy.

Any more I just cringe using lobes that slow. They do have advantages.

They take less valve spring pressure to get the same rpm or more.

And the slower ramps will do more rpm at the same spring pressure before they get into float.

So it’s not all bad.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Exactly. You have to do what makes you happy. Not what makes me happy.

Any more I just cringe using lobes that slow. They do have advantages.

They take less valve spring pressure to get the same rpm or more.

And the slower ramps will do more rpm at the same spring pressure before they get into float.

So it’s not all bad.

Plus they don't beat the snot outta the valve train on a everyday driver.

 

[75slant6]

I bet that woke it right up!

We’ll see. Haven’t installed the engine yet. Lol

 

[RustyRatRod]

We’ll see. Haven’t installed the engine yet. Lol

Whenever I run into one a good ways off like that, I duplicate it as a rule ten times before I adjust the center line. Just to be 100% SURE. The only other one I've seen off more was a big block Chevy years ago that was either 11 or 12 degrees retarded dot to dot. It was right, too.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Plus they don't beat the snot outta the valve train on a everyday driver.

That’s true. They are quiet for sure.

 

[Dusty 997]

Whenever I run into one a good ways off like that, I duplicate it as a rule ten times before I adjust the center line. Just to be 100% SURE. The only other one I've seen off more was a big block Chevy years ago that was either 11 or 12 degrees retarded dot to dot. It was right, too.

I've seen a lot of stories now about them being way off after i started climbing down the rabbit hole after our initial discussion. I'm going to proceed with my gears/converter plans as that has been a goal all along anyway, but i think a teardown and degree check is gonna be on the menue this winter before i get another cam. It all has to come apart to swap it anyway so im out nothing by checking it first.

 

[michiganpat]

thanks that image perfectly describes what everyone was saying! So, if i wanted to go with something more like that, where should i start looking spec wise?

well, if you look at head flow, as you would expect, the more the valve is opened, the more flow. the more flow, the more power is made. Most heads really don't start flowing until .2-.3" of valve lift, and peak somewhere in .5-.6" lift; some numbers here, EQ magnum & stock and ported LA heads are way down at the bottom https://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/1headflowchartscomparisons.php. and this page has some good comparisons 360 Cylinder Head Comparison. I've never understood using slow ramp/low lift cams, you're just leaving power on the table.

my first engine in my old 85 5th ave was a stock rerung 360 with some 1.88 valve '596 heads with home porting, headers, RPM air gap, and a comp XE262. engine ran strong, in my 5th ave with 3.55's and an A500 tranny, it kept up with a 1st gen 5.7L AWD 300C. found the comp catalog, here's the details of the intake lobe on that cam in the pic below (262 duration @.006 (adv) lift, 218@.050 lift, 130 degrees@.2" lobe lift, and .308 lobe lift/.462" lift with 1.5 rockers), wasn't the most efficient, averaged about 15MPG in my typical driving.

I ended up building (reringing) the stock 318 from the car and put in it. same headers, intake, 600cfm carb, and stock 137 magnum heads with a little home porting, stock magnum rockers, stock magnum roller lifters. 85 was a roller block with a long snout roller cam. I had the cam reground by bullet using this lobe: HR258/320 258adv 206@.050 127@.2 0.3200 lobe lift, so .512" lift with stock 1.6's. that's 4 degress less advertised duration, 12 degrees less .050 duration, but only 3 degrees less .2" duration than the XE262 with .050" more gross valve lift. that engine sounded much more stock and less lopey, but made as much power as the larger 360 while returning 20mpg in my typical driving. yeah, the heads were a little better flow (about 10CFM peak better on the intake according to the above link over the 596 heads), but the greater time that the valve was in the higher flow lift was a big factor on why that engine ran so strong.

.050 duration is usually a good indicator on powerband RPM range and driving manners...the bigger the higher the RPM range and the lopier/worse low speed manners. to compare back to my XE262, Bullet has a hydraulic roller cam profile (HR269/353) that has these specs: 269adv 218@.050 142@.200 0.353 lobe lift/.53" with 1.5 rockers. manners and powerband wise, it should behave similar to the XE262, but with almost .070" more lift and 12 degrees more duration@.2" lift, it should make significantly more power. one caveat is you need to make sure you have a valve spring to control that higher ramp rate and has enough travel to not coil bind at that amount of valve lift.

 

[Dart Frog]

well, if you look at head flow, as you would expect, the more the valve is opened, the more flow. the more flow, the more power is made. Most heads really don't start flowing until .2-.3" of valve lift, and peak somewhere in .5-.6" lift; some numbers here, EQ magnum & stock and ported LA heads are way down at the bottom https://www.hughesengines.com/TechArticles/1headflowchartscomparisons.php. and this page has some good comparisons 360 Cylinder Head Comparison. I've never understood using slow ramp/low lift cams, you're just leaving power on the table.

my first engine in my old 85 5th ave was a stock rerung 360 with some 1.88 valve '596 heads with home porting, headers, RPM air gap, and a comp XE262. engine ran strong, in my 5th ave with 3.55's and an A500 tranny, it kept up with a 1st gen 5.7L AWD 300C. found the comp catalog, here's the details of the intake lobe on that cam in the pic below (262 duration @.006 (adv) lift, 218@.050 lift, 130 degrees@.2" lobe lift, and .308 lobe lift/.462" lift with 1.5 rockers), wasn't the most efficient, averaged about 15MPG in my typical driving.

I ended up building (reringing) the stock 318 from the car and put in it. same headers, intake, 600cfm carb, and stock 137 magnum heads with a little home porting, stock magnum rockers, stock magnum roller lifters. 85 was a roller block with a long snout roller cam. I had the cam reground by bullet using this lobe: HR258/320 258adv 206@.050 127@.2 0.3200 lobe lift, so .512" lift with stock 1.6's. that's 4 degress less advertised duration, 12 degrees less .050 duration, but only 3 degrees less .2" duration than the XE262 with .050" more gross valve lift. that engine sounded much more stock and less lopey, but made as much power as the larger 360 while returning 20mpg in my typical driving. yeah, the heads were a little better flow (about 10CFM peak better on the intake according to the above link over the 596 heads), but the greater time that the valve was in the higher flow lift was a big factor on why that engine ran so strong.

.050 duration is usually a good indicator on powerband RPM range and driving manners...the bigger the higher the RPM range and the lopier/worse low speed manners. to compare back to my XE262, Bullet has a hydraulic roller cam profile (HR269/353) that has these specs: 269adv 218@.050 142@.200 0.353 lobe lift/.53" with 1.5 rockers. manners and powerband wise, it should behave similar to the XE262, but with almost .070" more lift and 12 degrees more duration@.2" lift, it should make significantly more power. one caveat is you need to make sure you have a valve spring to control that higher ramp rate and has enough travel to not coil bind at that amount of valve lift.

View attachment 1716460110

Where do you expect your top end power to be as far as RPMs with that cam grind.aka redline. In your particular motor.

 

[TT5.9mag]

If tuning is so easy why do I look around and see so many engines that run like they were tuned by a sixth grader?

Why is I can go to the track and see cars with black plugs?

Because guys still change jets for stinky rich idle and select power valves based on idle vacuum.

 

[TT5.9mag]

And I’ll just add this, with a .904 lifter a flat tappet can have a very aggressive rate of lift. Almost , but not quite what a roller can do.

 

[Siksty7 Dart 270]

I've seen a lot of stories now about them being way off after i started climbing down the rabbit hole after our initial discussion. I'm going to proceed with my gears/converter plans as that has been a goal all along anyway, but i think a teardown and degree check is gonna be on the menue this winter before i get another cam. It all has to come apart to swap it anyway so im out nothing by checking it first.

I like the Freiburger and Dulcich video on Roadkill Extra on degreeing a cam. It was super helpful to this newbie! I degreed mine using their video. It's an Oregon re- grind and needed 2 degrees to land on the installed center line. I bought Summit's double roller timing chain that has lots of adjustments on the crank gear. Shoot me a DM if you want some help from a fellow Buckeye, have tools will travel. OH....

 

[Dusty 997]

I like the Freiburger and Dulcich video on Roadkill Extra on degreeing a cam. It was super helpful to this newbie! I degreed mine using their video. It's an Oregon re- grind and needed 2 degrees to land on the installed center line. I bought Summit's double roller timing chain that has lots of adjustments on the crank gear. Shoot me a DM if you want some help from a fellow Buckeye, have tools will travel. OH....

i might just take you up on that after the driving season!