Heat Soaked Starter

[Earlie A]

Spent 3 1/2 hours in a parking lot last night waiting for the starter on my 65 Dart to cool down. Only after I had called a tow truck did it start. So I have to do something about the heat soaked starter. Engine is a 360 with TTI headers. As can be seen in the pictures, the header heat tape is touching the starter. Starts fine when cold. Won’t even turn over when hot.

So here’s my question. Is there a higher quality starter (smaller would be great) that I can use in this application? Pretty sure this is already the Dakota style mini starter.

 

[doug 371]

Wow that's tight

 

[Tanker]

Spent 3 1/2 hours in a parking lot last night waiting for the starter on my 65 Dart to cool down. Only after I had called a tow truck did it start. So I have to do something about the heat soaked starter. Engine is a 360 with TTI headers. As can be seen in the pictures, the header heat tape is touching the starter. Starts fine when cold. Won’t even turn over when hot.

So here’s my question. Is there a higher quality starter (smaller would be great) that I can use in this application? Pretty sure this is already the Dakota style mini starter.

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This is one of the reasons I decided to leave the headers off and go back to stock manifolds with dual exhausts. In the eight or nine years that I had headers installed I went through several starters that failed because they got thoroughly baked by the headers. I also had a torsion bar snap right at the point where it passed by the header on the drivers side. Things are just a little too crowded on the drivers side for comfort, so I gave up. It’ll be interesting to see if you find a good workable solution to the problem.

 

[slantsixdan]

Yup, there's this one. Or, super bang-for-buck, there's this one, which is the Bosch-type permanent-magnet coaxial starter used as OE on Mexican-market RWD Dodge trucks/vans with 3.9/5.2/5.9 motors, that would have got the Denso-type starter in the US+Canada. Bolts right on, hooks right up, cranks rilly rilly fast, and stays mostly out the way.

(Or, yeah, you could spend an unnecessary pile of $100 bills on Powermaster etc.)

 

[66Valiant528]

Powermaster makes clockable starters for Mopars. Im surprised those TTI headers are that close. Maybe something wrong with the mounts or engine placement? What year and body? BTW what size primary tube?

 

[Earlie A]

65 Dart. Things are tight all over. The headers barely clear the torsion bars all around. The headers slightly rub the frame on the drivers side. The center link is less than 1/8” away from the oil pan and actually scrubs a little on a hard right turn. Just not much room for stuff on the early A’s.

 

[66Valiant528]

Dropped center link? Early A 273 style?

 

[Earlie A]

Dropped center link? Early A 273 style?

It was originally a slant motor. Here’s a picture of the center link. It is dropped, but I don’t know if this is the slant or the V8 center link.

 

[66Valiant528]

The drop would only help with oil pan clearance on a hard turn. But if the engine sat up higher both the pan and the steering linkage would have more clearance. That wouldnt move the starter in relation to the header tube though. Again Im surprised TTIs arent a better fit here. Early A narrow frame rail limitations considered I'd hope.

 

[Earlie A]

I was just looking at the possibility of raising the motor slightly. 1/8” - 1/4” would help a few things.

 

[Earlie A]

Powermaster starters look nice. The website lists many options and even gives dimensions. Made in the USA as well it seems. Most of the options look to be $190-$300 range. If that solved the problem it’s a no brainer for me vs a remanufactured unit from Mexico or elsewhere.

 

[Inertia]

Yup, there's this one. Or, super bang-for-buck, there's this one, which is the Bosch-type permanent-magnet coaxial starter used as OE on Mexican-market RWD Dodge trucks/vans with 3.9/5.2/5.9 motors, that would have got the Denso-type starter in the US+Canada. Bolts right on, hooks right up, cranks rilly rilly fast, and stays mostly out the way.

(Or, yeah, you could spend an unnecessary pile of $100 bills on Powermaster etc.)

Thanx Dan, great options .

 

[Kendog 170]

Not sure if this would help.

https://www.amazon.com/Thermo-Tec-14150-Starter-Heat-Shield/dp/B00029KCWK/?tag=fabo03-20

https://www.jegs.com/i/Design-Engin...m_term=4581596255650123&utm_content=Evergreen

 

[65 Cuda 340]

For 63-66 A bodies with 727s or with manual trans, TTI says you must use the RobbMc Performance starter #3005. It's what I put in my 65 Barracuda with TTI headers and I have had no problems with it. It is longer, but smaller in diameter than the typical Mopar lightweight starters. It ain't cheap, though - almost $400. It also won't work with a 360/904 combo.

RobbMcPerformance - Mopar Starter

 

[RustyRatRod]

Powermaster makes clockable starters for Mopars. Im surprised those TTI headers are that close. Maybe something wrong with the mounts or engine placement? What year and body? BTW what size primary tube?

Since the starter and headers are both mounted to the engine, how will mounts and engine placement make a difference?

 

[Earlie A]

For 63-66 A bodies with 727s or with manual trans, TTI says you must use the RobbMc Performance starter #3005. It's what I put in my 65 Barracuda with TTI headers and I have had no problems with it. It is longer, but smaller in diameter than the typical Mopar lightweight starters. It ain't cheap, though - almost $400. It also won't work with a 360/904 combo.

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RobbMcPerformance - Mopar Starter

That was looking good until the last sentence. I have a 360/904. Wonder why it works with the 727 but not the 904?

 

[RustyRatRod]

It was originally a slant motor. Here’s a picture of the center link. It is dropped, but I don’t know if this is the slant or the V8 center link.

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I believe I would also be rethinking the transmission line routing.

 

[66Valiant528]

Since the starter and headers are both mounted to the engine, how will mounts and engine placement make a difference?

As I said it wont affect the starter header issue but will help the centerlink to pan clearance.

 

[Mims Gt]

Spent 3 1/2 hours in a parking lot last night waiting for the starter on my 65 Dart to cool down. Only after I had called a tow truck did it start. So I have to do something about the heat soaked starter. Engine is a 360 with TTI headers. As can be seen in the pictures, the header heat tape is touching the starter. Starts fine when cold. Won’t even turn over when hot.

So here’s my question. Is there a higher quality starter (smaller would be great) that I can use in this application? Pretty sure this is already the Dakota style mini starter.

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I cant even get header tape between my starter and headers and my headers are slightly hammer form molded to fit lol. I have been through a couple minis style . 66 Dart with 408 but I never have had to wait over 45 min.

 

[Earlie A]

I cant even get header tape between my starter and headers and my headers are slightly hammer form molded to fit lol. I have been through a couple minis style . 66 Dart with 408 but I never have had to wait over 45 min.

My headers and starter touch each other as well, but there are 1 or 2 layers of header tape in there. My first heat soak experience was 30-45 minutes. 2nd time was 3.5 hours. Seems it's time to do something about it. I'm hoping to call Powermaster today. That's another reason I want to try them first. I hope to be able to talk to a real person in tech support at the factory where they are made and get their recommendations on how to overcome the issues and which starter to try. I like the idea of the cheaper $90 starters as far as my wallet is concerned, but I really only want to do this once.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

While the old starter is out, I think I would also take the driver's side header off and use a BFH on it to gain some clearance.

 

[Mims Gt]

My headers and starter touch each other as well, but there are 1 or 2 layers of header tape in there. My first heat soak experience was 30-45 minutes. 2nd time was 3.5 hours. Seems it's time to do something about it. I'm hoping to call Powermaster today. That's another reason I want to try them first. I hope to be able to talk to a real person in tech support at the factory where they are made and get their recommendations on how to overcome the issues and which starter to try. I like the idea of the cheaper $90 starters as far as my wallet is concerned, but I really only want to do this once.

I missed the tranny mine is a 727 with a mini and I found that every time its seemed to get heat soaked It did seem longer in between cool downs I would def replace it and maybe keep that one as a spare. Ill be interested in hearing what Info a tech has to offer that we havent tried already. Good luck.

 

[Kendog 170]

Since the starter and headers are both mounted to the engine, how will mounts and engine placement make a difference?

Maybe a spacer?
DODGE Schoenfeld Headers 0410 Schoenfeld Header Flanges | Summit Racing

 

[66Valiant528]

If you can get a powermaster to clock so that it gives you additional clearance that works but if TTI says use Robmac starter that's probably what you're going to have to do. Do it once ,do it right.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I call those some poor fitting headers. I don't care how much they cost or how "nice" they are. Yeah, they fit snug to the engine alright. So snug that they create whole new problems of their own. Geez, that's a ridiculous fit. And a mini starter to boot. Just ridiculous that we have to put up with this kind of crap fitment in the year 2025, but here we are. I'd run stock height tires and run the front suspension a little high and use the good old reliable Hedman style headers before I did any of that bullcrap and I'd use the almost thousand bucks I saved on other things. And I'm not knockin the OP's car, but the product itself. Just totally ridiculous.