roaddevil
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It's not that easy to explain — it follows every longitudinal groove, and when compressing and rebounding, it pulls in every direction. :-("
Horrible bump asteering 1972 Dodge Demon
- Thread starter roaddevil
- Start date
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You really need to find a friend that can help, I do not mean a shop, but rather a "car guy" who has done lots of his own work, and knows a bit about front ends
You need to either find the specs the shop allegedly used or CHECK IT yourself and it just ain't that hard
You need to start at the wheel (steering) and go down through the linkage piece by piece, EG maybe you have a DEFECTIVE NEW ball joint. "New" does not mean "good" as in "functional."
Check that the steering box is not loose!!! Have someone wiggle the steering wheel a substantial amount, to put some force on it, and with a flashlight, look CAREFULLY where the box meets the frame for ANY movement.
Then observe the column to steering joint, and the steering joint to box, and the shaft into the box itself, look for any play, any "up down" (axial) movement.
Then get under. Look for movement up/ down/ sideways on the pitman shaft, play in the ball of the pitman arm, etc. Go out piece by piece and look at EVERYthing. Look for play in the lower arm pivots, etc.
ARE YOU RUNNING wide offset wheels? IF YOU ARE running radials, you do NOT normally want to use "factory" specs. However, that should not cause what you are getting.
How about ride height?
Have you ever set down and red through the service manual?
www.forabodiesonly.com
www.forabodiesonly.com
www.forabodiesonly.com
You need to either find the specs the shop allegedly used or CHECK IT yourself and it just ain't that hard
You need to start at the wheel (steering) and go down through the linkage piece by piece, EG maybe you have a DEFECTIVE NEW ball joint. "New" does not mean "good" as in "functional."
Check that the steering box is not loose!!! Have someone wiggle the steering wheel a substantial amount, to put some force on it, and with a flashlight, look CAREFULLY where the box meets the frame for ANY movement.
Then observe the column to steering joint, and the steering joint to box, and the shaft into the box itself, look for any play, any "up down" (axial) movement.
Then get under. Look for movement up/ down/ sideways on the pitman shaft, play in the ball of the pitman arm, etc. Go out piece by piece and look at EVERYthing. Look for play in the lower arm pivots, etc.
ARE YOU RUNNING wide offset wheels? IF YOU ARE running radials, you do NOT normally want to use "factory" specs. However, that should not cause what you are getting.
How about ride height?
Have you ever set down and red through the service manual?
67 barracuda alignment specs needed
After installing a Firm Feel steering box, pitman arm and new shocks on Bluefish, I finally got it to the alignment shock. They said it all went well, so I drove the car home and it drives horribly. After some checking, I found on their alignment sheets that they used specs for 1970-1974...
www.forabodiesonly.com
Front end alignment at home
Has anyone bought one of those Summit front end alignment setups? Did it work well? Do i need those plates to turn the tires? I'm tired of paying $100 for someone to do it wrong.
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Wheel alignment specs.
Does anyone have them for a 1971 Dodge Dart swinger? Originally a 318 car with ac. Help is appreciated.
www.forabodiesonly.com
Maybe you have already realized this, but you may have a problem that renders the car unsafe to drive. Do not take this lightly. OldManMopar is a VERY knowledgeable guy on here and managed to wreck one hell of a nice A body because of a front end problem.
As I recall, this was junk repop upper A arm adjuster bolts, which did not hold tight, and allowed one A arm to come loose
As I recall, this was junk repop upper A arm adjuster bolts, which did not hold tight, and allowed one A arm to come loose
Could be excessive toe in or out. For example, it the car is toed in too far, one tire is turned left the other is turned right if the load on both tires is even they cancel each other out. Each tire slipping the same amount as the car travels straight ahead. If you hit a bump or dip and one tire becomes more loaded than the other the balance between the two is disrupted. The tire with more load gains traction and becomes dominant over the other tire. Causing the car to turn in the direction of the tire with the most traction. Same effect for toe out. Grooves in the road. When a tire is slipping along and it finds a groove it wants to follow it instead of sliding over it. If the tire is pointing straight ( not turned and slipping) it is less likely to follow the groove.
Bump steer can cause this too. But if you haven't altered the factory suspension or the ride height is near factory specs it is less likely to be the cause.
Insufficient positive caster can cause a car to wander a little. It also leaves the driver with less feel in the steering wheel. To me this doesn’t really match your description but like you said sometimes it can be hard to describe.
Loose/worn/bent components in the suspension or bad tires can cause what you describe. It sounds like you have replaced everything but it wouldn't hurt to recheck the whole front suspension.
I'm sure there is something that I am leaving out that could be the cause of your problem.
Good luck and I hope you get this figured out so you can enjoy driving your car.
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abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
here is a good starting point... somewher between perf street and max perf street and you will be happy..
Following grooves can be a caster issue. It’s a problem that gets worse as the front tires get wider, but if that shop dialed in the factory specs you could literally have negative caster, which would cause tracking even with whatever you’ve got on those 14’s.
Pulling with compression and rebound could be bump steer, but, it could easily be a caster problem as well, especially if the toe isn’t right.
You need to check everything for play like @67Dart273 said, because it could be faulty or loose parts. But it could very well just be factory alignment specs that are at the wrong end of the factory range.
I don’t know how anyone pays to have a car aligned and doesn’t get the specs. Even if you never do your own alignment it’s necessary. If you start having an issue or tire wearing problem and take it to a different shop you have the original alignment specs for troubleshooting. It’s like not doing a compression check when your engine is running well, if you have an issue later and the compression check is wonky you have nothing to compare it to, so it’s much less useful as a diagnostic tool.
^^^This. A good number of "pro" shops are of the "toe and go" or "twist it till it turns green" type. If they had this approach, then they only did a partial alignment. Although they may have also provided rear thrust angles and rear toe and more info that won't necessarily help you. If they used the original specs, they are not designed for wider radials and the car will not feel right. Finding this spec sheet on your job would give us a bunch of info.
SixPaksRule
Well-Known Member
The thread is useless without good pics and information
No alignment sheet...are we clairvoyant?
No pics showing the steering linkage centered
The car needs to be level both directions on jackstands under the control arms and rear axle on a level floor- then start measuring distances like from the floor to the idler and pitman arm.
Are the tie roads the same length? If they are not the centerline of the steering box is off center
Was the front and rear axles distances measures with a precision tape to ensure each tire is square with others? This requires a plumb bob, masking tape and an assistant.
No alignment sheet...are we clairvoyant?
No pics showing the steering linkage centered
The car needs to be level both directions on jackstands under the control arms and rear axle on a level floor- then start measuring distances like from the floor to the idler and pitman arm.
Are the tie roads the same length? If they are not the centerline of the steering box is off center
Was the front and rear axles distances measures with a precision tape to ensure each tire is square with others? This requires a plumb bob, masking tape and an assistant.
Wow!
I guess what we need, just like the "skosh chart" is some sample make / model/ years of OTHER vehicles which end up having about the same specs as we want to see in these "modernized" A bodies. We can hand the "front end guy" that and let him plug it into his "red green" machine.
It’s actually really easy. If you’re running factory UCA’s, with or without offset bushings, you can just tell the tech that you’ve got a 2013 Dart. These are the specs-
Without offset UCA bushings they’ll probably fall short on caster by a degree or so, but it should still get them working in the right direction.
For a more radical alignment you could suggest a Challenger SRT8, if you’ve got tubular or adjustable UCA’s. Only issue there is those specs call for like +8° of caster, which is a lot. But if you have tubular or adjustable UCA’s there’s a good chance a shop that only uses the specs in the machine won’t even touch it because of the aftermarket suspension.
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