Horrible bump asteering 1972 Dodge Demon

[roaddevil]

I went on my 72 Demon from Brum to disc brakes, i used this kit
mopar A B E body cuda charger power disc brake conversion 8 INCH BOOSTER NEW | eBay

Ans also changed th upper a arms to this ones
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CLP-6374SCA-UK

Power steering is the bogenson set up
Mopar Kit, 64-69 LA Small Block with 1-1/8" pitman shaft (999069)

So i also had to replace the lower steering arms because the new spindles had the wider bolt pattern

Everything is Brand new, alignment done by a pro shop but i have the worst bump steering i ever experienced :-( All bushings everything is new.

I guess my problems are the one fits all spindles, what are you guys thinking ?

 

[abodyjoe]

alignment done by a pro shop

what are the specs they set it at. just because its a "pro" shop doesn't mean they know what the hell they are doing.

 

[66Valiant528]

Do those upper control arms have the big ball joint which the 73 and up A body spindles would require? I ask because it looks like the arms appear to be for the early A which would be the small b/j.

 

[roaddevil]

Do those upper control arms have the big ball joint which the 73 and up A body spindles would require? I ask because it looks like the arms appear to be for the early A which would be the small b/j.

No they do have the big ball joint

 

[roaddevil]

Do those upper control arms have the big ball joint which the 73 and up A body spindles would require? I ask because it looks like the arms appear to be for the early A which would be the small b/j.

well i do not know the specs exactly, any recomendatiuons ?

 

[Dave999]

OK so the disk brake kit will widen the track ever so slightly...no biggy
the spindles may be the slightly taller type...again no big issue it just alters the roll centre of the car slightly..
the upper arms are reproduced standard arms, they'd have to be noticeably rubbish really to cause a problem, and that problem would be apparent during alignment....

you went with the pure borgeson kit with the UV joint which will transfer more vibration to the wheel. for the first time in its life the steering wheel is connected directly to the steering box... normally on a floating coupling or rubber donut depending on age or country or origin of your mopar

Other than losing the setup you had previously..... little has changed

so either something was installed wrong.....cross link upside down, wrong pitman and idler orientation

or as Joe says above... the shop you used set it up like the manual dicates for 6.5 inch wide 14 inch cross plies, which isn't ideal.

underneath at ride height the cross link end at the inner track rod ends should be equal distance away from the chassis and the lot, cross links and track rods should be pretty near parallel with the ground

the wrong parts or something on backwards will have something higher or lower than the rest causing the track rod sleeves to slope up or down dramatically or indeed different side to side, or will cause them to rise or lower dramatically as you turn even though the suspension isn't being compressed due to body roll.

i'd take it back to the shop


Dave

 

[66Valiant528]

I don't know about those arms. When I type in a 75 Dodge Dart as an application it says those arms do not fit. I think those are small ball joint. I had a similar issue with my QA1 upper arms on my 66 Valiant with 73 and up spindles. They want to give you small bj uppers.

 

[Dave999]

Ah hang on

those arms at 63-68 arms small balljoint arms

the spindles are potentially "big balljoint" taper spindles, the Ad. doesn't say but spindles for the 4.5 PCD rotors usually are

dr diff for some bushings to get your upper joints to fit the big hole in the spindle properly

Mopar A-Body Upper Ball Joint Tapered Adapter

 

[92b]

Can you describe what you are experiencing in the car now compared to before you changed all the parts? Have you checked the bump steer yet?

 

[roaddevil]

Can you describe what you are experiencing in the car now compared to before you changed all the parts? Have you checked the bump steer yet?

Bump steer is my problem, i make a video tomorrow.

 

[roaddevil]

Ah hang on

those arms at 63-68 arms small balljoint arms

the spindles are potentially "big balljoint" taper spindles, the Ad. doesn't say but spindles for the 4.5 PCD rotors usually are

dr diff for some bushings to get your upper joints to fit the big hole in the spindle properly

Mopar A-Body Upper Ball Joint Tapered Adapter

yes i know but did you read the reviews bellow ? Everybody complains they do not fit because the balljoint is to big. Summit does realy not know what tehey are selling :-( Especialy Mopar related stuff.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Funny you mention this.

My neighbor Todds Barracuda 408 4spd. We just put together has an aftermarket brake kit like yours. The give away was the keyway for the outer bearing washer was on the bottom instead of the top. So I new they were not factory parts. They were on the car when he bought it so he reused them.

Every car done here goes to the same alignment shop at Riverside and never any problem.

Todds car is the worse with bump steer. Its actually hard to keep on the road at times.. We were talking about putting on old 73 a body spindles. . He is also constantly complaining about the brakes not feeling right.

We changed the master cyl. and proportioning valve twice. Thinking the front brakes were not releasing getting hot and making the car wonder. That was not it.

Next move is the steering box . Remove the power and put manual steering back on the car. That is what he wants to do.

 

[Dave999]

yes i know but did you read the reviews bellow ? Everybody complains they do not fit because the balljoint is to big. Summit does realy not know what tehey are selling :-( Especialy Mopar related stuff.

the data questions and comments under the advert for the arms seems to be contradictory

"Will these work on a ‘68 barracuda with ‘73-76 A body disc brakes"
"No"

which would imply that the balljoint in the arms does not fit a "big" balljoint spindle therefore the Arms are standard small balljoint A body arms, because 73 up spindles and 73 up A body disk brakes use a large balljoint (well in america they do)

Then later down the questions

"will this fit a 1969 plymouth barracuda 383 as a direct replacement?
Or are the ball joints different to accommodate B body brake assemblies for conversion purposes?thank you


CPPTech
6 years ago

Thank you for the inquiry, These convert to the B body spindles and lower ball joints.

which in my view would imply they are big balljoint Arms... in my view



However

CPPTech
· 4 years ago

This kit is designed for the B and E body, or an A body using my disc brake kit with spindles.


so his disk brake spindles shoiuld be used either on B E and A body or maybe just on A body

So
id be phoneing these guys
Disc Component Kit for Mopar, 11" Rotors 5 on 4.5

to find out if the arms you have are small balljoint or big balljoint quote the part no. off summit

then call tom at toms classics (chevy dudes in Minesota
"Tom is one of the owners of Auto City Classic 800-828-2212"
http://www.autocityclassic.com/1955-1957-chevy/

and ask him if his spindles are big or small ball joint

then id be on to Dr Diff if i needed some adapters

the only bits that stand out as odd in your story is

1 bump steer
2 apparent use of small ball joint arms with a big ball joint spindles

i'm guessing... i don't know if they are linked, but i am suspicious that something ain't right...

either way i'd be talking to the suppliers then going back to the alignment shop with the SKOSH chart settings and choosing a setup from it for your intended use
Following the SKOSH chart - your experiences?

 

[dano]

As noted information on fitment is conflicting from the supplier so you need to check what you have. What are you running for wheel and tire size and wheel back spacing or offset? What are the age of the tires?

Have you checked the tire pressure? I went to an alignment shop once and when done my car (not my Dart) drove differently. I checked the pressure and it was set to 60psi and should be 36psi. Only reason I can thin of is they added pressure to take any wall walk out of the equation, even on a 45 series tire.

 

[SixPaksRule]

this thread is useless without pics

 

[abodyjoe]

i'd like to know the specs the shop used also.

 

[72bluNblu]

Gonna need to have the alignment specs before we can actually get into this.

That’s just a 73+ kit, the reproduction spindles are the same height as the original 73+ spindles. The ‘73+ cars don’t have issues with bump steer.

So either the alignment is screwy, or there’s a mismatch of parts used with the kit and parts on the car.

 

[Killer6]

Pics of the tie-rods immediately please......

 

[Demonx2]

I'm no expert and can't say why but when I installed my SPC double-adjustable UCA's and dialed in the proper caster (I used 3-3.5 degrees) as well as the correct camber and toe-in, my bump steer went WAY down (avatar has the 73-up OEM disc brake setup.) Things like turning into a driveway no longer try to pull the steering wheel out of your hands. So like others have noted, the "proper" alignment specs may also help considerably.

 

[roaddevil]

okay sadly i can not find the specs sheet but i remember they followed an old dodge dart data sheet.
But the wheels are 14x8 BS 4.25

But what i guess, and this could help others as well there are 2 different center links and i guess now when i swapped to the newer style balljoints i have the wron Center link in it. See pis i have the one in the first pic. To rods a mounted in a 90degree angle

The Tie rods and control arms are more or less paralell the the ground but the tie rods leaning forward in the middle
there ist a orher center link with the tie rod bolt on top of it

so this are the two tipes
in the nex pics

I guess i nee the other center link i have, what do you guys think ?

Random pics of my set up bellow

 

[abodyjoe]

okay sadly i can not find the specs sheet but i remember they followed an old dodge dart data sheet.

stock specs? well there is atleast part of the problem. if the shop used stock specs then they really aren't a very good shop. you may have more then 1 thing wrong too.

 

[72bluNblu]

okay sadly i can not find the specs sheet but i remember they followed an old dodge dart data sheet.
But the wheels are 14x8 BS 4.25

But what i guess, and this could help others as well there are 2 different center links and i guess now when i swapped to the newer style balljoints i have the wron Center link in it. See pis i have the one in the first pic. To rods a mounted in a 90degree angle
View attachment 1716388430

The Tie rods and control arms are more or less paralell the the ground but the tie rods leaning forward in the middle
there ist a orher center link with the tie rod bolt on top of it
View attachment 1716388431

so this are the two tipes
in the nex pics
View attachment 1716388432
View attachment 1716388433
I guess i nee the other center link i have, what do you guys think ?

Random pics of my set up bellow

View attachment 1716388434View attachment 1716388436

No, you don’t need the other center link. Despite being slightly different from each other there is no change in overall suspension geometry because of the center link. The center link is NOT the problem.

If you have factory specs and radial tires the car will feel like you’re driving a shopping cart. While it might not be the entire problem, it is absolutely part of the problem.

 

[HemiDenny]

Can you be a little more specific in what you mean by worst bump steer you have ever experienced?

What is the car doing?
wondering while maintaining a constant speed?
wondering when mostly accelerating?
or other specific issues?

what you used looks right, my guess is you need another "Pro" to do your alignment. The last shop I tried could not align by my specifications. They need to input make / model (which was not available) and aligned by a go / green area or red /no go. They had no idea what specs they were adjusting to, just make it green. Needless to say, I was able to verify all 4 wheels (good to know with my DYI 4-bar) were straight and adjusted toe, which really eliminated the wondering issue I was experiencing. After that experience, I bought toe plates and a digital angle meter and never looked back. The new phone apps look nice and that is next on my list.

Good luck,
Denny

 

[92b]

Can you be a little more specific in what you mean by worst bump steer you have ever experienced?

What is the car doing?
wondering while maintaining a constant speed?
wondering when mostly accelerating?
or other specific issues?

what you used looks right, my guess is you need another "Pro" to do your alignment. The last shop I tried could not align by my specifications. They need to input make / model (which was not available) and aligned by a go / green area or red /no go. They had no idea what specs they were adjusting to, just make it green. Needless to say, I was able to verify all 4 wheels (good to know with my DYI 4-bar) were straight and adjusted toe, which really eliminated the wondering issue I was experiencing. After that experience, I bought toe plates and a digital angle meter and never looked back. The new phone apps look nice and that is next on my list.

Good luck,
Denny

Phone app?

 

[92b]

Can you be a little more specific in what you mean by worst bump steer you have ever experienced?

What is the car doing?
wondering while maintaining a constant speed?
wondering when mostly accelerating?
or other specific issues?

^^^ This might help narrow things down.