How to deal with paranoia about fuel leaks

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TylerW

TylerW

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Hey guys:

I know that's a strange title, but it's a valid question.

I do all my own work on my cars, and nothing scares me, except....gas leaks. When I had my first car(a '71 Impala), my father refused to have a steady fuel drip at the carb repaired. I wasn't mechanically savvy back then, so I drove that car for a few thousand miles constantly smelling gas and constantly afraid it was gonna go up.

On top of that, we had a VW bug that caught fire from gas leaks at least twice, so NOW I am perhaps not paranoid, but definitely averse to any gas leaks or potential for same.

Now owning another Slant six after all this time, I can't help but cast a wary eye on that Holley 1920 sitting 6 inches above the hot exhaust. I know that statistically, straight six engines with paired manifolds probably don't suffer fuel fires any more frequently than any other engine, but I'm curious if you guys give thought to this.

I actually rebuilt a 1945 for it to get away from that vertical fuel bowl, but the 1920 seems to work great even though it's covered in gunk and I see some seepage out of the accelerator pump drain hole. It's the original carb also.

My thinking now is to fabricate a drip pan to mount under the carb, much like airplanes and some old foreign cars used. It may sound silly but I do not want a situation where the float decides to stick and gas overflows onto the hot manifold.

Your thoughts...
 
Can understand your paranoia....would say it is justified even. If you do fab up some sort of drip tray just make sure it has a drain of sorts....away form the exhaust...just in case. You might enjoy this....years ago was working on a friends 442. Had a good running 455 in it, with a t-400 and 4:56's in the 12 bolt rear. Had an MSD 6 in it. A drag racing buddy was rebuilding the Holley that was on it. The coil was mounted on the intake. I had to remove the coil for some reason. Was walking home, with the freshly rebuilt carb in my hands and heard the fire whistle going off. Got about a block from my house and noticed a very large column of smoke.....Paul, the owner of the 442 stopped by to see if I was done. He did not bother looking under the open hood prior to taking a set of keys out of his pocket and twisting the ignition.....fuel line was aimed right at the ignition coil, which was close enough to the intake to create a spark....destroyed a beautiful 442....He tried ot blame me, claiming that he seen the keys hanging in the ignition and figured the car was done.....He had nothing to say when I pulled the his keys out of my pocket...
 
Nice thing about gas leaks is they are reasonably easy to detect as well as to avoid for that matter. New rubber lines, tank seals and rebuilt carburetor should all but guarantee you're car fuel leak free.
 
Get a battery powered car ?
Electrical fires burn cars to the ground much more often than fuel or oil fires. In fact, it was only a splash of antifreeze that caused a crowd of brand new Cadillac's to burn several years ago.
So.."How to deal with paranoia" ? There's a pill for that.
 
........Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't trynna kill ya...........
 
Well, don't take too much away from the VW fires; they caught on fire a LOT. So that alone will give you a false perspective on how often gas fires take place. If the float sticks, even with the drip tray you could have a fire. And not all gas on hot manifolds catches fire either, so that is in your favor. The manifolds hanging out there in the air means it won't pool up any where. Slant 6's just don't have any sort of reputation for fire problems.

Fix the leak and be happy; I don't think the tray is going to do you any good whatsoever in case of a float sticking/breaking.

BTW, that carb and intake getting heat from the exhaust manifold is good for your mileage; helps keep the fuel from condensing out of the intake air.
 
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I have a Holley 1920 on my 66 Dart /6 that I rebuilt two years ago when I bought the car. I check the float bowl screws periodically to make sure they are tight and so far no problems. It only takes me a few seconds to check all the carb screws and mounting bolts to make sure they are not loosening up and creating either fuel or vacuum leaks.

Paul
 
ACVW's catch fire because of the type of rubber fuel hoses they used. It didn't age well.

X2 on no drip pan, for the stated reason.

Liquid fuel is pretty hard to light on fire (not impossible, just hard). It's vapors are not. Airflow is key, 'flush' the vapors away.

After nearly losing a whole dyno room to a diesel fuel spill I really, really don't like to use hose clamps and avoid them as much as possible. Don't have to go the full AN route to get away from them, but it is an investment. Have a look at "Push-Lock" or "Barb-Tite" type of hose ends. On my Valiant I'm using these fittings with SAE J30 R9 "barrier hose" as an experiment to see how well that hose works with the fittings. Going on a year with no issues.
 
Darter6 said:
krazykuda, That's funny right there !
Click to expand...

Maybe funny, but not helpful in the slightest. I hope it never happens, but we'll see if you think things are so funny after rebuilding a burned car. If you want to be an entertainer and comedian then go find a comedy club and try out. Otherwise don't use my thread to test your material. And furthermore don't give me any of your "I'm a Gold member and I crap in anyone's post" BS either. You should know better.

To the adults that have actually made meaningful comments, thank you.
 
TylerW said:
Hey guys:

I know that's a strange title, but it's a valid question.

I do all my own work on my cars, and nothing scares me, except....gas leaks. When I had my first car(a '71 Impala), my father refused to have a steady fuel drip at the carb repaired. I wasn't mechanically savvy back then, so I drove that car for a few thousand miles constantly smelling gas and constantly afraid it was gonna go up.

On top of that, we had a VW bug that caught fire from gas leaks at least twice, so NOW I am perhaps not paranoid, but definitely averse to any gas leaks or potential for same.

Now owning another Slant six after all this time, I can't help but cast a wary eye on that Holley 1920 sitting 6 inches above the hot exhaust. I know that statistically, straight six engines with paired manifolds probably don't suffer fuel fires any more frequently than any other engine, but I'm curious if you guys give thought to this.

I actually rebuilt a 1945 for it to get away from that vertical fuel bowl, but the 1920 seems to work great even though it's covered in gunk and I see some seepage out of the accelerator pump drain hole. It's the original carb also.

My thinking now is to fabricate a drip pan to mount under the carb, much like airplanes and some old foreign cars used. It may sound silly but I do not want a situation where the float decides to stick and gas overflows onto the hot manifold.

Your thoughts...
Click to expand...

fix the carb or put a new one on, people have ran these engines for over 40 years without the need of a drip tray
 
Using a drip tray you will be looking at a big fire should you have a leak. Keeping your equipment up and use good quality clamps/hoses would be my suggestion.
 
66dart 270 said:
I have a Holley 1920 on my 66 Dart /6 that I rebuilt two years ago when I bought the car. I check the float bowl screws periodically to make sure they are tight and so far no problems. It only takes me a few seconds to check all the carb screws and mounting bolts to make sure they are not loosening up and creating either fuel or vacuum leaks.

Paul
Click to expand...

What's posted here along with new rubber fuel line every few years (because it seems new fuel line is not holding up well to this so called gasoline) and DO NOT use a plastic inline fuel filter, always use the steel case inline fuel filters!
 
Do you carry a fire extinguisher in your car? Thats a great first step. I carry one in the Dart due to known shoddy wiring issues.
 
And as far as raw fuel on hot manifolds not catching fire, here is a true story. I was rallying up in far, remote northern MI many years back, and it was around midnight, near the end of the rally, and we were hitting near to 100 on one of the last long stages in the middle of nowhere, when all of a sudden the car ('71 Opel Ascona), sputters and slows to a halt. Well, I leave the ignition on and fule pump, throw off the belts to jump out and lift the hood, and I swear to god, it was a small waterfall of gas pouring out of the carb and right down on the hot exhaust manifold. (The Opel 1.9L has the intake and exhaust manifolds stacked just like the /6.) I screamed at the co-driver to shut off the fuel pump and ignition (didn't think to tell him to get the h*** out!), and just stood there for a bit, waiting for it to explode. It didn't; the fuel just kept evaporating off of the super hot exhaust. So, no fire.

Turns our the float in the 500 cfm Holley had broken off at the hinge (due to all of the rough road impacts and vibrations). Made it to the end of the rally by just manually turning the fuel pump off when it started to flood, and then on again.

So, yes, the comment that liquid fuel is hard to ignite has truth to it. I was just in good shape with the resulting gas vapors since there are no electrics on that side of that engine except for the oil pressure sender.

I relate all of this hoping to let the OP know that fuel leaks aren't guaranteed fires, and that the intake-over-exhaust arrangement of the /6 is not inherently bad for such. Oil is the biggie for starting fires in race cars, BTW. We just had a EVO9 burn to the ground in a recent rally in SC: the motor grenaded, busted out the side of the block and oil spewed on the hot turbo, and away she went.
 
JMO i think the paranoia will fade as you put reliable miles on the car.

I'm sorta in the same boat, but it subsides a little more every time i drive the car.
 
I think it amazing that all the high-pressure fuel injected cars (since ~1992) haven't caught fire more often. I do see some burned hulks in parking lots occasionally, but probably no more often than old carbureted cars went up. When MPFI first came out, I predicted many future fires when the O-rings and rubber hoses age. A 60 psi leak causes a fine mist that can ignite easily, plus all the plastic under the hood of new cars makes good fuel. As mentioned, carburetor bowls can easily overflow if the float sticks, but usually it goes down the throat and stalls the engine. My Holley 1920 leaked from a bad accelerator pump diaphragm. What saves most cars is that even the tiniest gas leak is very noticeable and scares people enough to find the source.
 
TylerW said:
Maybe funny, but not helpful in the slightest. I hope it never happens, but we'll see if you think things are so funny after rebuilding a burned car. If you want to be an entertainer and comedian then go find a comedy club and try out. Otherwise don't use my thread to test your material. And furthermore don't give me any of your "I'm a Gold member and I crap in anyone's post" BS either. You should know better.

To the adults that have actually made meaningful comments, thank you.
Click to expand...

Really?

Settle down, don't get so upset...

View attachment PS_0208W_CALM_BREATH_t.jpg

It wasn't meant to offend you, just add a bit of humor (which a few other posts did before mine).


There was good enough advice before I posted. Do you need to be told the same thing more than once?

If you need to be told what to do because you can't think or reason, here you go:

Fix the fuel leaks and don't build a tray to catch any fuel. The "catch/drip tray" will only gather more fuel to make a bigger fire. Check periodically to be sure that there are no leaks.

If you are that worried about fuel leaks and your car catching fire, then maybe you should consider getting out of the car hobby and take up basket weaving or knitting.


I'm sorry if you can't handle it. :hmph:


View attachment PS_0377W_OFFEND_BONUS_t.jpg


I'm here all week, be sure to tip your bartenders and waitresses....
 
Set the sumbitch on fire. Then you won't have to worry anymore.
 
Just ignore it (your paranoia) and it'll go away, so here's a story.

Long ago and far away there were three boys. We won't change their names, even though they are all guilty. Mike, Bill, and Gary were up some hill and I believe they were coming back from a radio transmitter site.

Mike, a complete lunatic, and by the way is currently a Continental Captain (yes!! really!!) had some problem with the fuel system on his Renualt Dauphine. Now these are a true POS having no redeeming qualities. I wasn't there, but this was related to me. Evidently the fuel pump died.

So here's what "the boys" did.

They had some sort of container, possibly a soda bottle. They pirated some tube / hose, possibly from the windshield washer, and siphoned some fuel from the fuel tank into the bottle.

Now, One of them got sort'a "out" of the back window, holding the container, with the hose SIPHONING DOWN INTO THE CARB THROAT and attempting to control fuel by clamping the hose with ? pliers ?

And down the hill they came, one pepsi bottle at a time.

renault.sized.jpg
 
"I think it amazing that all the high-pressure fuel injected cars (since ~1992) haven't caught fire more often."

One thing to keep in mind is that the hose clamps used for FI cars look similar but are different and provide a more even and much tighter clamping force all around the hose end without the tendency of the standard hose clamps to dig into the rubber. Similarly, the high pressure hose is built differently and is a lot more rugged for the 50-60 psi constant pressure.

So, the OP can ask for fuel injection type hose clamps and use those and things will be more secure. Also, just like heavy electrical parts (starters, alternators), don't go to Autozone or Advance or similar box stores for any sort of hose; their hoses tend to be kinda crappy. Get a name brand like Gates if you can or at least get it from NAPA. It'll will be of a better quality.

Good story on the Dauphine and the gas in the bottle....!
 
nm9stheham said:
Get a name brand like Gates if you can or at least get it from NAPA. It'll will be of a better quality.....!
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree but don't have a better answer. Damn near burned down my 70 years ago with a piece of Gates hose about 3" long from the filter to the carb which was barely a year old. It cracked and broke right after start up. I "ain't impressed" with Gates hose. I sold car / truck parts and heavy hardware for some 15 years or more.

There is NO doubt that EFI hose is far superior.........and far more expensive
 
Yeah, the SAE J30 R9 spec "low emissivity" hose is more expensive on a $/foot basis, but if you're replacing regular hose every couple of years (or more often) and this stuff lasts for ten years then which is the more expensive hose in the long run? I don't know that this stuff will last that long, but given the OE's warranty situation they need 100k mile fuel hose. The liner in the R9 spec hose looks to be either teflon or polyethylene and either will stand up to this strange stuff sold these days as "gasoline."

For hose clamps the best that I've found thus far is "ABA" brand and the most reliable place that I've found to get them is West Marine. These are the type with no holes in the band for the rubber to extrude through.
 
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