Hypothetical 475-500hp 360 build cost.....???

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Cevidicus

Cevidicus

CevidiGrinch
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I was having a debate with a buddy about the minimum cost to build my 360 in to make 475-500+ horse power verses the cost to build my 5.7 to the same level.

Im not real familiar with building the LA small block to this level. I know there are a plethora of threads on the subject but I need a total cost to build in real world numbers. I'm hoping that y'all dont mind sharing your knowledge and thoughts.

What I am aking for is a parts list with labor and prices included. This needs to be a complete engine ready to run with ignition, oil pan, water pump, carb, headers etc...

Lets assume this would be based on my '73 360 4 bbl core engine. It's just a stock long block with 587 heads, factory 4 bbl intake, stock stroke, no oil pan etc.

This engine has to run on premium pump gas and be fairly streetable. By streetable I mean it has to be docile enough to cruise on the street and make a highway trip now and then as well as stought enough to be hammered on at the strip etc. (must make me grin ear to ear with ease)

What can you guys come up with? First hand experience is best but pencil and paper hypothetical builds would work too.

I just want to know what the total cost to build a 360 to the 475-500hp level from a core engine would be.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Cevidicus

:burnout:
 
5.7 Hemi 'Eagle' build to 475-500 flywheel HP

This is a best case senario based on the 2009 long block I have with 9,000 miles on it. This engine does not need rings, bearings, oil pump, etc. Also assumes that this cam would work with this application as I dont know if anyone has tried it yet. But I think it would work if set up like this using phaser lock out kit.

625 FAST XIM ignition with harness
750 TTi headers
500 Indy ModMan intake
450 carb
85 Comp phaser lock
100 6.4 hemi cam
225 MDS eliminator kit
400 Milodon oil pan, pick up, windage tray, gaskets, bolts
250 stock coil packs (8)
133 TTi conversion mounts
100 Platinum spark plugs
70 sythetic oil / filter
225 MDS eliminator kit
200 comp cams Hemi cam degree kit
28 MDS plugs
50 head gaskets
_______________________
$3,966
 
1973 360 long block core


200 MP electronic ignition kit
50 spark plug wires
50 spark plugs
275 RPM intake
450 carb
1500 ? Heads
450 roller rockers
120 push rods
250 cam/lifter kit
75 main bearings
75 rod bearings
75 gasket kit
50 water pump
90 stock replacement balancer
75 timing set
350 oil pan, windage tray etc
1250 machine work/labor
200 MSD 6al
______________________________

$5585

Does that look even close?
 
Want the receipt for mine? I didn't do the labor myself. 360 bored and stroked to a 408, 11.8 : 1 compression, all parts including intake, carb, ignition, distributor, etc... machine shop work and assembled was around $10K Add TTi headers for $800. It's 500hp with 528 ft/lbs of torque. I am probably going to convert to E85 for the octane to keep the motor able to run on pump gas and still put out full hp at all times. It would be much cheaper if you are capable of building the motor yourself.
 
I don't think a $250-300 aftermarket oil pan is necessary on the 360. Use the one that came with your long block. Also don't need $50 spark plugs. But I think you should add forged pistons in with that rebuild. So that $5585 will net out a little more than that.

How much did you pay for your 9,000 mile 5.7 long block? What is the going rate market rate for a 5.7 long block (trying to exclude if you got a flaming deal on it).

How much did you pay for you 360 short block? You're not using the heads or intake or rockers, so really all you are using is the short block.

Not totally fair comparision because the 360 is fully rebuilt. The 5.7 is a 9,000 low mile engine.

But reality is reality. It's pretty darn hard to find a 360 magnum motor with 9,000 miles on it that was run within the last few years. It would have to come from a ultra low mile truck that happend to get wrecked.

you bring up a lot of good points. In an A-body with the TTI conversion mounts and stock K-member, do you have to run manual steering?
 
autoxcuda said:
I don't think a $250-300 aftermarket oil pan is necessary on the 360. Use the one that came with your long block. Also don't need $50 spark plugs. But I think you should add forged pistons in with that rebuild. So that $5585 will net out a little more than that.

How much did you pay for your 9,000 mile 5.7 long block? What is the going rate market rate for a 5.7 long block (trying to exclude if you got a flaming deal on it).

How much did you pay for you 360 short block? You're not using the heads or intake or rockers, so really all you are using is the short block.

Not totally fair comparision because the 360 is fully rebuilt. The 5.7 is a 9,000 low mile engine.

But reality is reality. It's pretty darn hard to find a 360 magnum motor with 9,000 miles on it that was run within the last few years. It would have to come from a ultra low mile truck that happend to get wrecked.

you bring up a lot of good points. In an A-body with the TTI conversion mounts and stock K-member, do you have to run manual steering?
Click to expand...


You're right. Not a fair comparison. But this is based on what I have and what it would cost me in my unique situation. And, I was hoping it might help someone else get a good idea of the actual cost to build a 360 core they already have to the stated requirements.

The 360 has a truck pan on it... Seller kept the car style pan.

I traded for the 360 and I did infact get a smoking hot deal on the 5.7...

Anyone contemplating a build similar to either one of these would just have to add in the cost of a core engine in similar shape to what I stated.

Yes, you do have to run manual steering with a stock K member in an A-body.

I would also assume that I would be doing the assembly myself to save that cost. I used $1250 as just a guess. I really dont know what it would cost clean, check, machine, balance etc a 360 like this one.


Thanks
C
 
Mainly, I wanted to get a discussion going on the actual minimal cost to get a 360 into the 475-500 flywheel HP range.

Also so I can be sure that I am countering my buddies points with good info on my end.

>>>>> I forgot the pistons for the 360 in my list. Glad I got you all to point it out, lol.

So what is the cheapest a pump gas, stock stroke 360 can be built? ( assuming one already has a good core)

Would you use the stock heads or after market? What pistons? WHat cam?

What am I missing?
 
Cevidicus said:
You're right. Not a fair comparison. But this is based on what I have and what it would cost me in my unique situation. And, I was hoping it might help someone else get a good idea of the actual cost to build a 360 core they already have to the stated requirements.

The 360 has a truck pan on it... Seller kept the car style pan.

I traded for the 360 and I did infact get a smoking hot deal on the 5.7...

Anyone contemplating a build similar to either one of these would just have to add in the cost of a core engine in similar shape to what I stated.
Click to expand...

What's a typical 5.7 core with low miles like 9,000 go for on the open market?
That would give us others an idea if we wanted to go 5.7.

A 73 360 short block like you have should be somewhere between $300-400 I'd think. Others' opinions?
 
autoxcuda said:
What's a typical 5.7 core with low miles like 9,000 go for on the open market?
That would give us others an idea if we wanted to go 5.7.

A 73 360 short block like you have should be somewhere between $300-400 I'd think. Others' opinions?
Click to expand...

Id say that the trade value I agreed on was $350 for the 360.

A low mile 5.7 with the front accessories but no computer or harness would range between $1800 and $3000 from what I have seen on ebay lately. A good useable core 5.7 that needs a total rebuild could go for 500-1000.
 
Here is what I have on the engine stand right now, 94 5.7
The cost is a little higher than normal but I used a sfi balancer and flywheel.
Some parts were used, most were new. $4700 I am sure I missed a few minor parts but all of the hard parts are there.
The long block core was $200 including LA oil pan and timing cover from a member here.
Upon teardown the cylinder bores still had the hone marks in them, but the crank needed turned, and the heads were cracked.
Balanced the bottom end because of the weight difference between the KB107 pistons and stock.
New comp roller cam, new eddy heads and comp roller rockers.
Used intake, carb, valve pan covers.
Here is what I have in it so far.
Sorry the copy and paste did not come out that easy to read.

01/29/11 Engine Rick 200
12/12/11 M1 intake Gary 170
12/18/11 intake gasket Summit 13.95
12/18/11 valve cover gaskets mag Summit 17.88
12/18/11 oil pan gasket Summit 14.5
12/18/11 water outlet gasket Summit 1.25
12/18/11 timing cover gasket Summit 9.95
12/18/11 carb studs Summit 3.95
12/18/11 carb base gasket Summit 5.95
12/18/11 fuel pump block off Summit 3.95
01/07/12 header paint Advanced auto 13.12
12/10/12 fuel log T. J. 92
12/11/12 750 holley BBJ Auto 88.98
01/31/12 air cleaner 40
02/02/12 mag heads Engine machine $40.00
02/06/12 Rod Bearings Summit $71.60
02/06/12 Main Bearings Summit $74.95
02/06/12 Oil pump Summit $29.95
02/06/12 Rings Summit $35.95
02/06/12 Rear main seal Summit $30.95
02/06/12 Pistons Summit $221.95
02/06/12 Damper Summit $199.97
02/06/12 head gaskets Summit $32.95
02/06/12 Flywheel Summit 319.99
03/02/12 hot tank block Engine machine 40
03/02/12 mag block Engine machine $40.00
03/02/12 hone block Engine machine $75.00
03/02/12 install cam brgs and soft plug Engine machine $40.00
03/02/12 grind crank .010 / .010 Engine machine $150.00
03/02/12 balance crank Engine machine $250.00
03/02/12 recondition rods Engine machine $100.00
03/02/12 press pistion on rods Engine machine $60.00
03/02/12 cam bearings Engine machine $19.95
03/02/12 soft plugs Engine machine $21.95
03/01/12 Head bolts Summit $74.56
03/01/12 eddy heads Summit $1,397.70
03/01/12 wire seperator Summit 5.35
03/01/12 valve cover grommet Summit 1.35
03/01/12 plug wires Summit $30.55
02/27/12 distributor Rob $64.10
03/02/12 engine paint Advanced auto $6.19
03/06/12 engine paint Advanced auto $5.90
03/08/12 plastigauge, brake clean Advanced auto $12.71
03/10/12 oil filter adapter gasket Advanced auto $3.39
03/11/12 permatex rtv Advanced auto $7.49
03/11/12 spark plugs Advanced auto $16.72
03/09/12 fuel pump eccentric Hughes $39.95
03/09/12 camshaft key Hughes $0.95
03/09/12 cam bolt and washer Hughes $15.99
03/14/12 Water pump Advanced auto $34.33
03/13/12 vac secondary quick change Summit $28.90
03/13/12 fuel pump Summit $87.95
03/13/12 Fitting 3/8 to ¼ Summit $5.69
03/13/12 3/8 x 1/8 bushing Summit $3.95
03/13/12 pushrods Summit $55.95
03/13/12 oil drain plug gasket Summit $76.00
03/13/12 vac fitting intake Summit $11.99
03/13/12 rebuild kit 3310 holley Summit $32.95
03/13/12 choke kit holley Summit $26.95
03/13/12 header gasket Summit $32.75
03/13/12 fuel line 6 an 2 ft Summit $28.95
03/13/12 fuel pressure take off Summit $11.88
03/13/12 fuel pressure gauge Summit $14.95
03/16/12 oil, filter Advanced auto $25.42
 
im building a 500hp 360

.30 over speed pro pistons 10:1 comp
0 decked
stock stroke
max ported 340 x heads
573 solid hughes engines cam
850 holley hp carb
m1 or 340 victor intake
7qt pan

hoping for 500..

have about $3000 into it...
 
I forgot to add a pic of mine.
The small stuff really adds up.

1000745f.jpg
 
really, to have a sustainable 500hp that doesnt need to run at 7k rpms constantly, where you are breakin stuff... you need the stroker kit.

a stock stroke 360 will have to run high rpms to match a 408. i.e. the ratio for the same amount of cfm is 13% higher. so a 408 running 6500 rpms is equivalent to a 360 running 7366 rpms. in order to sustain that kind of work, you would have to build the crap out of the bottom end, girldle, windage tray, external oiling system, all forged pieces, perfectly blueprinted and you are still going to break stuff.

so from a cost standpoint the stroker kit is more cost effective for 500hp. i would stay far away from the cast version of the eagle cranks, and for the forged version it needs to be checked thoroughly since some of the journals are a bit out of spec when they are new in the box.

it's the same if you use turbo or nitrous... although it seems like a short cut you should really have a bottom end that can support the HP limit, or it's lifespan will be limited.

so for long term costs, a stroker kit would be best for 500hp
for stock stroke 360, 400hp is a easier number to hit and would have a better lifespan.

for a race gas engine it's a bit different. by having 12:1 your stock stroke 360 would put out a lot more power so you could probably hit 500. but then, again, the costs are higher long term.
 
See there's a few different parts to your specs. You want it to make 500hp. you want it to cruise on pump fuel. You want it to have street manners. You want cheap. You can get 500hp from the 5.7 with an original long block. You cannot on the LA 360. So you have to decide first if you want the next gen deal, or the LA deal. In other words, it's a strictly cash thing or it's not. If you have the Hemi long block, use that.
In terms of building horsepower, for 500hp I'd use $14/hp, or $7K for a turn key, everything new but the block and crank LA engine. The Hemi saves you from having to build a new bottom end and saves due to the heads' abilities. That's really the only differences.
 
From what I have looked at and messed with LA engines, if you went swap meet with a bunch of parts, I could see a 360 like that for a little over $4k or less.

Keep in mind that a Mopar crate 360 that pushes 400hp is $10,300. They are nuts.

You could also hit up Summit racing and buy a Blueprint engines 408 stroker engine for about $4k. Just another option because keep in mind that when you are building an engine, the machine work is NOT CHEAP.
 
For an LA 360 set up, 500hp, I would guess around $7-8000 if you're careful....maybe more. Depends on if you build it to be dependable at that power level (steel crank, good valve train, etc).
 
To be fair I'd have to factor in the costs of modifications necessary to install the 5.7 in an A Body. What transmission are you going to use? The later model transmissions require a lot of fabrication to make them fit & work. Injection requires a computer & reprogramming for that. You're not really just comparing engines to run on a dyno here. It may be easier/ cheaper to produce 500 HP at the flywheel with one motor over the other, but it still has to be made to work in something. All things should be considered in the total package.
 
Lonewolf3165 said:
To be fair I'd have to factor in the costs of modifications necessary to install the 5.7 in an A Body. What transmission are you going to use? The later model transmissions require a lot of fabrication to make them fit & work. Injection requires a computer & reprogramming for that. You're not really just comparing engines to run on a dyno here. It may be easier/ cheaper to produce 500 HP at the flywheel with one motor over the other, but it still has to be made to work in something. All things should be considered in the total package.
Click to expand...

Really the only difference is in installation is the mounts and flex plate assuming the use of an auto 904 or 727. Assuming 67-72 type mounts, the 5.7 conversion mounts are $133 and the conversion flex plate is $120. I included the mounts in my price list.

All I want to know is the cost to make a stock stroke 360 LA make 475-500 HP. I know what it takes to do so with the new Hemi but no so much with the 360.

This thread is more relevant to my particular circumstances more so than in general.
 
just,







642hp at the wheels,/ is what I want out of a stock stroke 360.
no biggie.

Stock Longblock Specification rebuild....8.5:1 and under CR...yay!
Original CAST PISTONS
REUSING stock original camshaft and valvetrain
minimal bore clean up....hone Std, .030 ect.
double roller timing chain
MP Timing Chain Tensioner
HV oil pump
Stock 1.88/1.60 valves. ADD for, single springs with dampners good for .500"
gasket matched intake ports, minimal port cleanup, casting flash removal

custom single turbo hotside piping -$1500---no exhaust after engine bay
72mm turbocharger T4 housing - $750 including feed and drain
40mm wastegate - $100
Blow off valve -$100
Charge piping- $350 including couplers
Blowthrough modified Holley 750 DP....$450
Fuel System upgrade - $750

14 psi.... with water injection spraying when above 10 psi
 
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