I wanna drag race----help

[flboatman1]

measure the length of drive shaft you need my 72 dart has a 52in aluim. drive shaft out of a 2000 Ford explorer 4 dr. 2 wheel dr. and i use solid brut jts. And you will need to use frame connecters. the drive shaft caust me 50.00 at local salvage yard and another 30 to be checked at driveline shop.

 

[kanders]

flboatman1
I would love to be able to measure the driveshaft I need but I wont be able to until I have an engine to mount in the car. Thanks for the tip on the Explorer driveshaft. Do you know who makes a good subframe connector?
codfish Thanks for the Info.

 

[Codfish]

Gotta welder? These cost me 30 bucks to make. And a 6-pack.:cheers:

codfish

 

[Outsider]

If you are going to run sticky tires, get ready to throw alot of money at that 4-speed. Chances are you don't have an 18 spline, and a 23 spline will not hold up in a drag car. They are tough, but not that tough.
If you don't intend to run the car on the street, you can sell your gearset, and fill the case with Liberty gears.

 

[ab7fh]

Glad to see I'm not the only one getting back into the sport after a long "vacation". For me it's been about 25 years. Here's what I'm working on www.rhphoto.com/dart.html

Shouldn't be too much longer before:burnout:

Best of luck with your project:toothy10:

 

[kanders]

Gotta welder? These cost me 30 bucks to make. And a 6-pack.:cheers:

codfish

Are those thickwall tubing or just exhaust pipe. Kev

 

[kanders]

If you are going to run sticky tires, get ready to throw alot of money at that 4-speed. Chances are you don't have an 18 spline, and a 23 spline will not hold up in a drag car. They are tough, but not that tough.
If you don't intend to run the car on the street, you can sell your gearset, and fill the case with Liberty gears.

I do want to run this car on the street as well. I checked the trans input shaft and its a 23 spline. An automatic is looking better and better all the time. How much HP do you think the 23 spline is good for? If I do go with an auto (727) how hard are they to find for an A body, how much will have to be done to it, how much $$$$ is it going to add to my low budget race car project for a unit that will stand up to the abuse of an inexperienced drag racer? ..... These and more questions to come.....
Kev

 

[kanders]

Glad to see I'm not the only one getting back into the sport after a long "vacation". For me it's been about 25 years. Here's what I'm working on www.rhphoto.com/dart.html

Shouldn't be too much longer before:burnout:

Best of luck with your project:toothy10:

Rick
Looks like you've got a first class project on the go, good luck on finishing it on time (looks like you're well on your way). Thats a great site you've set up and very informative. I get tired just thinking about the amount of time and effort it must have taken to make the website, never mind the project itself.
You talk about doing the bodywork, blocking the highfill primer etc. Do you have a backround in autobody repair. If not how hard was it to get things straight. I'm just getting to the bodywork stage of a 1968 Mustang project for my 18 year old daughter and am going to tackle it myself. I'm kinda worried that when its finished that I'm gonna kick myself because it won't look good enough. It's going to be a daily driver but it still has to look good.
I've taken it down to bare metal so I'll have to start from scratch. Any advice? Kev

 

[Codfish]

Are those thickwall tubing or just exhaust pipe. Kev

No they are .125" thick, 2" O.D. tubing, bent to follow the contour of the floor.

codfish

 

[ab7fh]

Rick Do you have a backround in autobody repair. If not how hard was it to get things straight. I'm just getting to the bodywork stage of a 1968 Mustang project for my 18 year old daughter and am going to tackle it myself. I'm kinda worried that when its finished that I'm gonna kick myself because it won't look good enough. It's going to be a daily driver but it still has to look good.
I've taken it down to bare metal so I'll have to start from scratch. Any advice? Kev

Before this I've only done a few panel repairs. Nothing major like this, that's for sure...

I have a good friend who has been guiding me through the process. Unfortunately he lives in Chicago and I live in Phoenix, so the help has all come over the telephone and by his looking at the pictures of my work.

To get straight lines, tape up to the line then block sand to the tape. You have to first tape on one side of the line, then the other.

I also started with bare metal. I was told to spray the whole car in epoxy primer which is very good for long term rust prevention. Kind of like a factory "e" coat. You can then do your bodywork on top of the epoxy primer. That is, you do all your body filler work on top of the epoxy. If you break through to bare metal when sanding the filler (you will) you can just hit the area with another coat of epoxy.

 

[Black 69 Dart]

Are you talkin about the old speedway?? My dad and his buddies raced there. Pops had a 69 dart 340 4spd, red with a black bumble bee strip, his friend had a white 70 duster with loopy painted on the doors, and my car is the old obsession 69 dart, was blue and white back then.
Since we are local to each other if ya need any help let me know.
Trevor

Its funny how the need for speed never leaves you. Our local track was ploughed under in favor of new housing in the 80's. It took a long time (15 years) to get a new track. By then I had the whole family thing going. Now my 2 girls are driving on their own and I'm FREE FREE FREE. I'm actually a blue oval guy but I had a 71 plum crazy 340 duster in 1976 and won a lot of races with it. It was indestructable and a blast to drive. I cant wait to get this one running and smell the sweet aroma of burning rubber again. Just
need some more info, a few parts and PRESTO, back in the fast lane.

 

[kanders]

Before this I've only done a few panel repairs. Nothing major like this, that's for sure...

I have a good friend who has been guiding me through the process. Unfortunately he lives in Chicago and I live in Phoenix, so the help has all come over the telephone and by his looking at the pictures of my work.

To get straight lines, tape up to the line then block sand to the tape. You have to first tape on one side of the line, then the other.

I also started with bare metal. I was told to spray the whole car in epoxy primer which is very good for long term rust prevention. Kind of like a factory "e" coat. You can then do your bodywork on top of the epoxy primer. That is, you do all your body filler work on top of the epoxy. If you break through to bare metal when sanding the filler (you will) you can just hit the area with another coat of epoxy.

Thanks Rick, I did buy some epoxy primer-bondo-finishing putty-masking tape-some air tools and sand paper, left them at the shop and went home . I went back to the shop the next morning and nothing done yet. Damn bodywork fairys must be on holidays or somethin. Any bodymen out there want to come up to the Great White North for a work/holiday? Decent pay and Canadian beer to boot! Kev

 

[kanders]

Are you talkin about the old speedway?? My dad and his buddies raced there. Pops had a 69 dart 340 4spd, red with a black bumble bee strip, his friend had a white 70 duster with loopy painted on the doors, and my car is the old obsession 69 dart, was blue and white back then.
Since we are local to each other if ya need any help let me know.
Trevor

Yes Trevor I am talking about the old speedway. My parents acreage was a few miles from the track. I would uncork the headers and drive the backroads right to the track then back home afterwards. I did buy a 340 engine last week from the guy I bought the car from and if all goes as scheduled, it should be here in a few days. Will still need a driveshaft, intake, headers, carb, elect fuel pump and some other small stuff. Since you worked in an engine machine shop I'd sure be willing to buy you a lunch and pick your brain about the machining/blueprinting process. Any luck with a job yet? Kev.

 

[turbodart68]

Heres my combo, just to give you some perspective. 70 Swinger all steel and stock right down to the rallyes and power steering weighing in at 3440 with me onboard. Stock 360 block/crank/rods with SRP zero deck flat top pistons 11.1 compression with cut down J casting head with 2.02/1.60 and home port job. Ultradyne solid flat tappet 246@.050 and .540 lift 112 lobe separation. E-brock torker 340 with a 750 dp holley, Msd ignition 1 5/8 headers with 2 1/2 flowmaters. 999 trans with low gear set and 10 inch 3000 converter followed up by 4.56 gears tied to a set of BFG drag radials 275/60r15. It ran on 91 octane junk they sell here in Ca. My best pass at sea level was 11.92 at 115 mph. It needed more converter since it only went 1.80 in the sixty foot. I also put a 150 shot of juice on it and spun a rod bearing at Vegas during the Mopars at the Strip, 10.90 at 128 going 7800 through the lights. Turned out it was too much for the stock oiling system.

 

[kanders]

Heres my combo, just to give you some perspective. 70 Swinger all steel and stock right down to the rallyes and power steering weighing in at 3440 with me onboard. Stock 360 block/crank/rods with SRP zero deck flat top pistons 11.1 compression with cut down J casting head with 2.02/1.60 and home port job. Ultradyne solid flat tappet 246@.050 and .540 lift 112 lobe separation. E-brock torker 340 with a 750 dp holley, Msd ignition 1 5/8 headers with 2 1/2 flowmaters. 999 trans with low gear set and 10 inch 3000 converter followed up by 4.56 gears tied to a set of BFG drag radials 275/60r15. It ran on 91 octane junk they sell here in Ca. My best pass at sea level was 11.92 at 115 mph. It needed more converter since it only went 1.80 in the sixty foot. I also put a 150 shot of juice on it and spun a rod bearing at Vegas during the Mopars at the Strip, 10.90 at 128 going 7800 through the lights. Turned out it was too much for the stock oiling system.

Wow- 7800 , Thats RPM right? I had no idea the stock crank and rods could come close to that. I'm glad to see you used a torker intake, thats what I was thinking of using. I read in the "big inch mopar small blocks" book that the oiling system should be modified for serious HP engines. Thanks for your input.

 

[kanders]

With a 4-speed and 4.30 gears, you should be able to run a 27"-28" tire without a problem. I run 4.10 gears with 28-9X15 MT ET Drags(which are actually 27.3" tall) and a 727 auto trans with LUPO 5000 stall. I've ran my old 340 1/8th mile and 1/4, it works great either way.

Darndart first of all, I just tripped upon a post from the beginning of July that you had won the Pro Street class at your local dragstrip-a belated congrats! My question to you or anyone else with the 9" slicks is what width of wheel and backspacing would I need to fit my car. If you run on the street, do you keep the slicks on or do you have street tires you change to?
Also, my car has manual steering. What size of tires for the front to be narrow enough for easier steering but not look funny on the street. Kev

 

[Outsider]

I do want to run this car on the street as well. I checked the trans input shaft and its a 23 spline. An automatic is looking better and better all the time. How much HP do you think the 23 spline is good for? If I do go with an auto (727) how hard are they to find for an A body, how much will have to be done to it, how much $$$$ is it going to add to my low budget race car project for a unit that will stand up to the abuse of an inexperienced drag racer? ..... These and more questions to come.....
Kev

Hey kanders, sorry I didn't notice your reply to my post. A GOOD 23 spline will do well behind a motor up to about 450-500 hp on the street. It will need constant attention however, and if it goes it will likely be catastrophic. A good 18 spline will do OK with a good bit more, but it will need constant attention as well. If you are going to drive the car on the street, swapping out your 23 spline gearset for an 18 spline Liberty set will make driving rather unenjoyable on the street, so I'd opt for an auto. A small block 727 won't be too hard to find, by friend put one, (727) from a '73 van in his 4-speed barracuda, and it is a great tranny. If you want any auto advice, I'm NOT your man. I've never owned an auto in my life...nearly 35 years of driving manual trucks, cars, even lawnmowers. :-D

 

[rumblefish360]

A 12 second 360 engine as per the old "Tips" section would use;

A purple 284/.528 mech. cam, there first listed bracket head, 4.30 gears w/9X28 slicks, drag shocks, and sub frame conectors

 

[kanders]

Hey kanders, sorry I didn't notice your reply to my post. A GOOD 23 spline will do well behind a motor up to about 450-500 hp on the street. It will need constant attention however, and if it goes it will likely be catastrophic. A good 18 spline will do OK with a good bit more, but it will need constant attention as well. If you are going to drive the car on the street, swapping out your 23 spline gearset for an 18 spline Liberty set will make driving rather unenjoyable on the street, so I'd opt for an auto. A small block 727 won't be too hard to find, by friend put one, (727) from a '73 van in his 4-speed barracuda, and it is a great tranny. If you want any auto advice, I'm NOT your man. I've never owned an auto in my life...nearly 35 years of driving manual trucks, cars, even lawnmowers. :-D

Outsider, since purchasing a 340 long block ready to go I've decided to go with the components I currently have. I appreciate the info and I'm sure I will soon find out all of the downfalls of running the 23 spline 4spd but since I I have almost everything necessary to be racing/driving it in as little as 3 weeks, I'm going to try it. I know that drag racing is a constant learning process ---- sometimes you learn the hard way. Kev

A 12 second 360 engine as per the old "Tips" section would use;

A purple 284/.528 mech. cam, there first listed bracket head, 4.30 gears w/9X28 slicks, drag shocks, and sub frame conectors

Rumblefish
The 340 I purchased is built and almost ready to go. It's supposed to make about 450 HP. I'm looking at some subframe connectors that follow the floor contour and are welded all along the floor to form a box as well as connecting to both subframes. Does anyone have any experience with these?(the company name escapes me at the moment) Kev

Rumblefish
The 340 I purchased is built and almost ready to go. It's supposed to make about 450 HP. I'm looking at some subframe connectors that follow the floor contour and are welded all along the floor to form a box as well as connecting to both subframes. Does anyone have any experience with these?(the company name escapes me at the moment) Kev

I just found the seller of the subframe connectors and it is US Car Tool in North Carolina. Has anyone here tried these? Kev

 

[turbodart68]

Wow- 7800 , Thats RPM right? I had no idea the stock crank and rods could come close to that. I'm glad to see you used a torker intake, thats what I was thinking of using. I read in the "big inch mopar small blocks" book that the oiling system should be modified for serious HP engines. Thanks for your input.

Your right on the money. I didnt really modify the oiling system what-so-ever and I paid the price. It spuna rod bearing shortly after the 10 second passes at Vegas. I only spun it that high twice to reach the end of the quarter while using N2O, I had the motor gear in it.

 

[Outsider]

Outsider, since purchasing a 340 long block ready to go I've decided to go with the components I currently have. I appreciate the info and I'm sure I will soon find out all of the downfalls of running the 23 spline 4spd but since I I have almost everything necessary to be racing/driving it in as little as 3 weeks, I'm going to try it. I know that drag racing is a constant learning process ---- sometimes you learn the hard way. Kev

Regardless of what motor you have decided to run, you will still have to throw some more money at that 4-speed. You are going to HAVE to buy a scattershield. A blow-proof bellhousing is a must. You will likely need to rebuild, and strengthen your clutch linkage. You MAY need to buy new linkage pieces to accomodate the scattershield as well. You will also have to get a solid clutch/pressure plate, and I'd go with a new flywheel to be safe. The 4-speed will have to be rebuilt, or any weak links will fail. Also 4-speed guys tend to put alot more gear into the rearend to get the drivetrain to move along easier on the launch... this will help with parts breakage. By the time you take care of these basics you will likely be into it for more than a rebuild for an auto. Racing a 4-speed is a spendy hobby. good luck.

 

[kanders]

Regardless of what motor you have decided to run, you will still have to throw some more money at that 4-speed. You are going to HAVE to buy a scattershield. A blow-proof bellhousing is a must. You will likely need to rebuild, and strengthen your clutch linkage. You MAY need to buy new linkage pieces to accomodate the scattershield as well. You will also have to get a solid clutch/pressure plate, and I'd go with a new flywheel to be safe. The 4-speed will have to be rebuilt, or any weak links will fail. Also 4-speed guys tend to put alot more gear into the rearend to get the drivetrain to move along easier on the launch... this will help with parts breakage. By the time you take care of these basics you will likely be into it for more than a rebuild for an auto. Racing a 4-speed is a spendy hobby. good luck.

Outsider
I'm going to have the tranny checked out by a local shop but I suspect it's been rebuilt like everything else is on the car. It's been blasted and repainted and has a new tailshaft seal with plastic dust covers on it. It came with a brand new pistol grip shifter. I don't know how good those are for racing but the one I had in my Challenger T/A years ago and it seemed to work fine. All of the clutch linkage looks new right down to the rubber pads and bushings. There's a resurfaced flywheel, a new pressure plate and 2 clutch discs in the trunk. One of them is unusual looking, will post a picture of it tomorrow see if someone can help identify what kind it is. The bellhousing is stock so I should probably find a steel lakewood or similar kind. Any suggestions on that?
Kev

 

[pettybludart]

I,m running a Lakewood scattershield and had to modify the bracket for z-bar(just drilled another hole for fitment)Getting the fork on the throwout bearing was fun due to small opening on s.shield.Quick Time also sells scattershields,from the looks of them they are smaller.I would have got one had I known about them.I also race my 73 Dart Sport 340,4 speed,8 3/4 4.10,s with Bears Performance axels(Canadian,Windsor Ontario)I have slide-a-link traction also a Centerforce dual friction clutch.Did I hear you say budget build?LOL

 

[kanders]

I,m running a Lakewood scattershield and had to modify the bracket for z-bar(just drilled another hole for fitment)Getting the fork on the throwout bearing was fun due to small opening on s.shield.Quick Time also sells scattershields,from the looks of them they are smaller.I would have got one had I known about them.I also race my 73 Dart Sport 340,4 speed,8 3/4 4.10,s with Bears Performance axels(Canadian,Windsor Ontario)I have slide-a-link traction also a Centerforce dual friction clutch.Did I hear you say budget build?LOL

Pettybludart
What kind of 4 spd do you have(18 or 24 spline) and what kinds of modifications have you done to it? What kind of times are you running in the 1/4 with your setup. Is the slide a link a type of traction bar and if so is it a bolt on or are body mods needed? Thanks, Kev

 

[Outsider]

Pretty sure Pettyblue has a 23 spline with no real mods. He has a couple of great posts up about racing that car earlier this summer where you can read about it.
Sounds like the 4-speed is worth a bet... make sure your driveshaft is up to par and really scrutinize that flywheel. Make sure there are no cracks in it. Use whatever magnifying device you can find and really look at it.
I loathe pistol grip shifters, and in my opinion they don't shift as well as a plain round ball. That's just me so maybe you can mke it work...I don't know anyone who can. Pettyblue has one in his car.
I've got the old Lakewood in my car, and the linkage has been altered. Works well.
Post a pic of your clutch.
Good luck.