Improving my 360 combo. Need advice/input

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Here's the plan.

Called Harold from Spitfire Headers today. He has started back up making the early a-body headers and I put my order in for a set. He said he's waiting to get his next batch of bent tubing which should be ready in the next week or so. Then it'll be another couple weeks to get them. I know it can be a long wait to get them but I'm hoping 4 weeks COD for $225. Beats the heck out installing and spending big $$$$$ for the TTI's. Did that once already. I'll ditch the 273 exhaust manifold somewhere in the garage.

This is some new stuff I ordered up for the car today that will hopefully uncork this motor and get it running near its potential with correctly matched parts.

You'll get a kick out of this Longgone. Basically, I'm getting setup with the same stuff that's on my 340 convertible. LOL :-D

The Goodies:

-Edelbrock RPM Performer Intake

-650 Mighty Demon "ET SLAYER" Carburetor from FBO

-Curved Mopar distributor from FBO

-I'll be keeping the MSD 6AL box and the Blaster Coil (made in China :thebirdm:)


Once all my parts come in and everything is fine tuned, I think this little 360 should run like a raped ape :munky2: If not, I'll have some more tinkering to do.

Comments and Opinions welcome of course.
 
daves66valiant said:
Here's the plan.

Called Harold from Spitfire Headers today. He has started back up making the early a-body headers and I put my order in for a set. He said he's waiting to get his next batch of bent tubing which should be ready in the next week or so. Then it'll be another couple weeks to get them. I know it can be a long wait to get them but I'm hoping 4 weeks COD for $225. Beats the heck out installing and spending big $$$$$ for the TTI's. Did that once already. I'll ditch the 273 exhaust manifold somewhere in the garage.

This is some new stuff I ordered up for the car today that will hopefully uncork this motor and get it running near its potential with correctly matched parts.

You'll get a kick out of this Longgone. Basically, I'm getting setup with the same stuff that's on my 340 convertible. LOL :-D

The Goodies:

-Edelbrock RPM Performer Intake

-650 Mighty Demon "ET SLAYER" Carburetor from FBO

-Curved Mopar distributor from FBO

-I'll be keeping the MSD 6AL box and the Blaster Coil (made in China :thebirdm:)


Once all my parts come in and everything is fine tuned, I think this little 360 should run like a raped ape :munky2: If not, I'll have some more tinkering to do.

Comments and Opinions welcome of course.
Click to expand...

So you're going to use the same cam? The one with the cam coming in at 3500 RPM?
 
daves66valiant said:
The gear thing has got me thinking now. I almost forgot I have a rebuilt 8 3/4 rear with a 489 case in my 68 Dart that has 3.91s and a Sure-grip. I could easily swap pumpkins. I guess my only problem is that the current rear-end in the 66 hardtop is a 742 case.
Wonder if I would have to get a new drive shaft?
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Nope, same shaft.
maybe different U-joint if the yoke is larger/smaller.
If you already have the pieces it would be a great comparison.
 
daves66valiant said:
Here's the plan.

Called Harold from Spitfire Headers today. He has started back up making the early a-body headers and I put my order in for a set. He said he's waiting to get his next batch of bent tubing which should be ready in the next week or so. Then it'll be another couple weeks to get them. I know it can be a long wait to get them but I'm hoping 4 weeks COD for $225. Beats the heck out installing and spending big $$$$$ for the TTI's. Did that once already. I'll ditch the 273 exhaust manifold somewhere in the garage.

This is some new stuff I ordered up for the car today that will hopefully uncork this motor and get it running near its potential with correctly matched parts.

You'll get a kick out of this Longgone. Basically, I'm getting setup with the same stuff that's on my 340 convertible. LOL :-D

The Goodies:

-Edelbrock RPM Performer Intake

-650 Mighty Demon "ET SLAYER" Carburetor from FBO

-Curved Mopar distributor from FBO

-I'll be keeping the MSD 6AL box and the Blaster Coil (made in China :thebirdm:)


Once all my parts come in and everything is fine tuned, I think this little 360 should run like a raped ape :munky2: If not, I'll have some more tinkering to do.

Comments and Opinions welcome of course.
Click to expand...

Priceless!:toothy10:
 
AdamR said:
That cam isnt much bigger then what he has in the vert.
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I see.

I always thought that when choosing a cam it is best to at least try to pick a cam with the operating range (RPM) in which the motor will see the most. Especially the street.

I guess my thinking is wrong.
 
You cant really go by what they say the operating range is. Every combo will be different. Its a pretty light car and if its set up right it should be fine on the street.
 
I think the operating range for this cam is a bunch of hoopla because they have no idea what being run in the car. I bet Erson is just saying, hey you can run our cams up 6500. I bet the true operating range comes in somewhere around 2500-2800 rpm.

I will not know much until I get the motor uncorked to see what the engine really wants or needs. Plus I will have a better idea of what kind of true compression is in the motor, because I don't know if it has been zero decked. 10.5 true compression is a little tough for today's pump gas with all the shi t they are adding to it. I bet I'm only going to get 9.5 ish compression. In that case I'll actually be better off with regular 91 pump gas.

If the engine is not happy with this cam, my next adventure is getting a custom grind that will maximize what is in the car.

Stay tuned.

The car is currently running very rich with 750 speed demon and the MSD biller distributor. No idea what springs are in it or the initial timing. I've got some fun ahead of me. Yeah.
 
I have a similar cam, mp 284/528 solid in my 360. auto 2500 conv and 391's, hooker super comps, airgap/ 650dp w/proform center.The car is a blast!!!
If the m1 is a single plane too much. I had that and went to the airgap. A 1" space might help you out with the performer... Plus better exhaust and gears!!! Mine works the best w/18-20* intial and 36* total advance @ 2500.
Just my 2cts and experience...

Bob
64 Dart 270 post
 
Dave you might try going to Comp Cams website and put your proposed engine specs into their cam selector to see what comes up.
 
**** can those proform rockers before they disentegrate.I,ve seen too many sets smoked hanging around the machine shop.adjusters are crap and they break.
 
BobsDart said:
I have a similar cam, mp 284/528 solid in my 360. auto 2500 conv and 391's, hooker super comps, airgap/ 650dp w/proform center.The car is a blast!!!
If the m1 is a single plane too much. I had that and went to the airgap. A 1" space might help you out with the performer... Plus better exhaust and gears!!! Mine works the best w/18-20* intial and 36* total advance @ 2500.
Just my 2cts and experience...

Bob
64 Dart 270 post
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I have a 1" 4-hole spacer ready for the RPM performer, the 3.91 pumpkin will go into the car and the initial timing will be the same as your's but my total advance will come around 3100. The M1 will go to a good home. I thought about the Air-Gap. Not enough engine/cam to justify it.


Longgone said:
Dave you might try going to Comp Cams website and put your proposed engine specs into their cam selector to see what comes up.
Click to expand...

Yeah I used the comp cam quest program and the XE268 and XE274 were the best fits. I have heard most people are happy with them except they are noisy. They try to get you to buy the Thumper $$$ cams too when you use that program.

daredevil said:
**** can those proform rockers before they disentegrate.I,ve seen too many sets smoked hanging around the machine shop.adjusters are crap and they break.
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Yeah Pete, made in China crap I have been told. Would love to get my hands on a nice set. There was a MoparMuscle article I remember that compared all the roller rockers. I will have to dig that one out.

If I change out the cam, I'll be getting new roller rockers. The pushrods are Crane, the springs are from Comp. So I should be good there as long as the springs were done right and have the correct spring tension for the cam i choose.

Been looking into the Racer Brown cams and was going to give Jim a call to see what he would recommend given my future setup.
 
I would have kept the MSD distributor and recurved it myself. They are real easy to do. 2 springs adjust how fast the curve comes in and a bushing adjusts how much advance you get.

Dons distributors work well, Ive used them myself before but the MSD is a nice piece IMO.
 
AdamR said:
I would have kept the MSD distributor and recurved it myself. They are real easy to do. 2 springs adjust how fast the curve comes in and a bushing adjusts how much advance you get.

Dons distributors work well, Ive used them myself before but the MSD is a nice piece IMO.
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I believe I will keep the MSD distributor as a good backup for both cars. It may be something I can play with using the springs and bushings like you say.

I searched the site for MSD distributor info the other night and found some good info about the springs..blue, silver, etc. Doesn't look like it's too hard but I've never done it. Hopefully the springs are in the box of stuff I got with the car. I may try to do a test using the MSD first and then swapping in Don's distributor to see how each performs.
 
Well, I've managed to do a few things to the car over the past 2 months.

Installed the RPM performer and new 650 Mighty Demon carb, better fuel filter, different advance springs, Crane gold rockers, new one-wire alternator and the Spitfire headers. Car still has open headers at the moment. I got the timing close and took it to my muffler guy but he didn't have enough time to get the 2.5 inch pipes connected. I'll have to leave it with him for a day.

Here's my problem now.

I did my best to tune the car to get it over to the muffler shop but the car still drives like a slug and wants to stall once it gets warm. Don't think it's vapor lock since I get plenty of squirt into the carb. The starter just turns the motor over but the engine doesn't want to fire. I has hot spark when I pulled the wire off the coil and turn the key. The car was missing like the timing was way off or detonating. Plug wires were not crossed. I did adjust the float bowls to proper specs and did the four corner idle adjustments with pretty good throttle response. My timing is 18* initial and total of 34* all in at 3000rpm per the MSD spring charts. No vacuum on this MSD distibutor.

I'm not sure why this car is running like crap. I know it is multifactorial and I'm trying to nail things down one at a time. I'm going to do a compression check on all cylinders while checking the plugs tomorrow.

I'm realizing that I inherited somebody else's headache but I'm determined to make it right. Ultimately it is not a well suited/thought out combo as is. The power band of the cam does not kick in until 3500 rpm which does not seem too street friendly especially with 3.23s. I have the 3.91s but i want to drive this car for now.

I think I am going to replace the solid Erson cam with a hydraulic Voodoo 268 or the like.

Any comments/ideas why this car is running crappy and ideas on sorting out a good combo would help.

Dave
 
A lot to read thru with this...lol. Honestly, the manifolds (exh) are/were the biggest issue, well, that and the monster carb. It's the equivolent of a Holley 850 4150 series... Way huge. The intake was fine, the cam is not that big. When you take out lash (you did say solid, right?) and angles, you have a cam with 248°@.050, and about .490 lift. Not a monster, and not bad at making cylinder pressure. I noted the cahanges you made... A hint here... Don't use ANY spacer on a dual plane intake. It just makes the intake "feel" wrong over a wide rpm range, startign off idle. The spread bore versions should still seal fine on a square flange carb. I know in the past the ones I used did. My gues is, the same package you put on your 340 needs to be tuned on this 360. I'd suggest you spend some time tuning, and less time replacing. The cylinder pressure test will tell for sure, but I think in terms of parts, you are prety good now. You just have to make them work right together.
 
Thanks Moper. I will continue working on it. I'll try to post the compression numbers soon and how the plugs look. Nothing will work right if the compression is bad somewhere.
 
daredevil said:
Huurry dave we need more info LOL
Click to expand...

I'll be doing more than checking compression this weekend. :snakeman:

I'm going Voodoo for Halloween.

Decided to swap cams in my 360 Valiant to try something a little more street friendly than the cam I have now from the PO.

It was an Erson solid cam with these specs and recommendations

Hot Street/E.T. Brackets. Great mid-range performance from 318-340 CID engines with 10.5-11.5:1 compression. Needs modified stock or W-2 style cylinder heads, gasket-matched, single plane, open plenum intake manifold and up to 750 cfm 4-barrel carburetion, 3,200-3,600 lb. Bracketeers can use 4-speed manual or torque flyte automatic with 3,500 RPM converter and low gears.

3,500-6,500 rpm range IN 242° EX 246° IN .510" EX .510" 108°

I tried to get things to work better with this cam that the previous owner had placed in the car by changing some things like adding headers, timing changes, carb, intake, etc. but ultimately I don't want a bracket car. This is what this cam was built for. I need something I can enjoy more on the streets and highway.

I went ahead and ordered the 60403 Lunati Voodoo 268 cam. I have heard good things about this cam and hope it makes my car much more drivable and enjoyable to me at least. I think it better matches the parts that were already on the car and the parts that I have recently changed.

Here are the specs on it.

Hydraulic. The most awesome 268 cam ever produced! Out-powers all others! This High Performance street cam likes 2400 RPM stall, 700 cfm carb, dual plane intake and headers. Makes un-equaled power to 6200 RPM with proper valve springs. Very strong cam with great street manners.

* Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 268/276
* Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 226/234
* Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .494/.513
* LSA/ICL: 110/106
* Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
* RPM Range: 1800-6200



Hopefully, I will be as happy as others have been with this camshaft. Should be a good adventure for me since I have never done a camshaft swap before and I'm excited about the learning experience of doing it. Thankfully, I have this great site and members for tech reference and guidance.

I'm hoping I can have it done over the weekend without pulling the motor.

Don't really have any questions right now but any input on my choice of cam good or bad would be cool. Just don't want to continue chasing my tail on this motor.
 
Dave IMHO I think you made a great decision with the Lunati 60403. I run the 60404 in my 360 and it's torquey and plenty streetable. I bet the 60403 will be a real torque monster with very good manners. Probably get half way decent fuel mileage too.
 
Hi,on post #40 you say you have know vacuum advance??This could could be one of your problems.I have MSD dis. with v.advance holley 750v.sec. RPM air-gap and I,m running comp xe284h with a 4 speed and have no issues with idle also is street friendly.She really likes to giddy-up when you tromp on it.I hope you find the right setup for your car as i,ve been following your posts.Good luck and hope you can put your wallet back in your pocket!!haha.It will all come together eventually!!Happy Motoring.
 
Thanks for the replies.

I do have a curved MP dizzy with the vacuum canister to try out as well. I am hopefully this will help my combo since the parts seemed to be better suited to the 268 cam. Wish I knew more about the heads and what has been done to them. Thanks again
 
Had to wait for new pushrods to show up and it rained last weekend. Finally got everything buttoned up today. Rotella 15w40 and cam break-in oil additive is in. Lots of moly lube on cam and plenty of assembly lube on other parts.
lunaticamswap002.jpg


Carb float bowls are set. Just need some water wetter and some distilled water for the radiator. Then I'm ready to prime the engine again, stab the dizzy and fire her up for 20 minutes. Hoping everything goes well. This is my very first cam swap. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 
Did you centerline your cam with a degree wheel & TDC stop? Lining up the dots on the sprockets is not very accurate. One tooth off can mean about 15 degrees.

Oldschoolcuda
 
Oldschoolcuda said:
Did you centerline your cam with a degree wheel & TDC stop? Lining up the dots on the sprockets is not very accurate. One tooth off can mean about 15 degrees.

Oldschoolcuda
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If I had a dime for every time I've read this statement that I would be a millionaire!:bootysha:
 
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