Is align boring necessary

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tooslow

tooslow

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I am rebuilding my 383 (mild) Hyd cam . I want this car to be a daily driver and not a race car w frame connectors.It will be 9 to 1 Cr. pump gas, 1500 to 5500 Hyd cam, 727 w overdrive
Is Align boring neccesary?
Do I need ARP bolts or is there a more reasonable alternative
 
No, it is not a mandotory thing to do. Of course, if there was a problem with the crank bearings before hand and the crank was slapping anout in the engine.... it would help create a better longer lasting engine. Need it or not.

Pioneer is a company that makes quality bolts for less. You may also want Check ma MoPar as well. There really is t a damn thing wrong with OE material. I have used MoPar main blots before and been in the low 12's.
 
If you don;t want to improve on the machine work of the factory, and/or you shop does not have equipment that indexes off the crank centerline (so they can't square deck) then you don't have to align hone. Needless to say, all mine get done.
 
I meant align honing and block decking....
But I will skimp on a few Meals instead and put the money saved into my machine work. There is nothing better to the ears than a sweat running balanced Mopar!!

Thanks for your input
 
I always spend the extra money for machine work, even on street engines. Really makes a difference when everything is square and perfectly indexed, in my opinion. Then again I'm a little bit anal when it comes to mechanical stuff.
 
tooslow said:
I am rebuilding my 383 (mild) Hyd cam . I want this car to be a daily driver and not a race car w frame connectors.It will be 9 to 1 Cr. pump gas, 1500 to 5500 Hyd cam, 727 w overdrive
Is Align boring neccesary?
Do I need ARP bolts or is there a more reasonable alternative
Click to expand...

It is not always needed to align bore. If you plan on racing the car I would do it. Now for the bolts, I would change them. Bolts take alot of stress with the torque specs you put on them when assembling a motor.
 
Torque your main caps using the fasteners you intend to use during final assy. If you have a dial bore gauge measure the the main bore diameters and compare to specs. Next mock up your crank and new oiled bearings, but leave the rear seal out for now. If it spins free there is little or no gain to align honing or boring. Align honing or boring always changes your crank centerline closer to your camshaft. Food for thought...
 
66fs said:
Align honing or boring always changes your crank centerline closer to your camshaft. Food for thought...
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Not if it's done properly and the block was not heavilly damaged (spun bearing). A small amount of material is removed from the caps on the parting line, and the bores are honed round while maintaining the factory centerline. This means without removing a heavy amount from the block saddles.
I'll add that if you are using a shop that has modern equipment and square decks (something else I consider mandatory) the main bore centerline must be properly located because that's one of the places the toolig idexes off of.
 
moper said:
Not if it's done properly and the block was not heavilly damaged (spun bearing). A small amount of material is removed from the caps on the parting line, and the bores are honed round while maintaining the factory centerline. This means without removing a heavy amount from the block saddles.
I'll add that if you are using a shop that has modern equipment and square decks (something else I consider mandatory) the main bore centerline must be properly located because that's one of the places the toolig idexes off of.
Click to expand...

When you hone the main bores back to size, you will move the center of the crank toward the camshaft. That bore is 1.8175 to 1.8180. IF you have someone good, it does not move much. The main bore centerline is properly located, by definition, since everything is relative to it. You can square your decks without align boring or honing.
 
But What if I Guess...
i will skip a bucket a chicken or 2 and pay to have it Align Bored.
I know I will be standing on it the first time a Hochyman Ricer pulls up next to me.
 
I was only trying to say, "If you measure it, and it is good, you can't make it any better." You may actually make it not as good... Of course it is your car and you can do what you want.
 
moper said:
If you don;t want to improve on the machine work of the factory, and/or you shop does not have equipment that indexes off the crank centerline (so they can't square deck) then you don't have to align hone. Needless to say, all mine get done.
Click to expand...
mine to Dave its a must at my my machine shop
 
If I was building a s/s motor or wanted all the HP I could get YES I would.unless there is a problem with the way the barrings look I wouldn't worry about it.polish the crank and put it in the block it should turn very easy.I have only done one of my Owen.and it didn't run any better then the one I haven't.I have built Meany Meany big blocks and not one has come apart. the way I look at it if mamopar can make them run for hundreds of thousands of miles that's good enough for me.I will spend that money somewhere else..dont get me wrong Im not saying its a bad thing to do if you can aford it.thats my 2cents worth...............Artie
 
You cut the ends of the caps. Small now.You send the bore/hone into, just to take material out of the caps. Centerline not moved.
 
When the engine is align honed, the hone has to take material out of both the caps and the saddles in the block to make it round again.
That would move the crank center line slightly closer to the cam.
It's not very much, just enough to true all of the bores and make them straight.
Maybe envision a cylinder being honed, it takes equal amounts off of the bore on all ''sides'' to make it straight and perfectly round.
 
Dartnut said:
When the engine is align honed, the hone has to take material out of both the caps and the saddles in the block to make it round again.
That would move the crank center line slightly closer to the cam.
It's not very much, just enough to true all of the bores and make them straight.
Maybe envision a cylinder being honed, it takes equal amounts off of the bore on all ''sides'' to make it straight and perfectly round.
Click to expand...

When I get a block back the bock saddles are barely touched. They have marks, but the centerline is NOT moved. If yours is deeply honed in the saddles then yes, your shop more than likely moved your centerline a small amount and it wasn't done well.
66fs - It's my opinion that you cannot square deck without properly locating the crank centerline. I think your belief is the bore can be located anywhere in 3d space and so long as you index off it that means the decks are square. I would agree if that the centerline could be "anywhere" if we were only concerning ourselves with the engine. However the location and direction of that centerline also affects the driveline "downstream". Power to the wheels is lost when things aren't lined up perfectly. Align boring/honing corrects the accuracy, position, and angle of the crank to exactly perpendicular to the bellhousing. Square decking takes that a step further and makes sure the decks are parallel to the crank centerline and perpendicular to the bore centerline. If you don't correct those relationships you didn't "square deck".
If someone thinks factory is "good enough" I'd suggest using the deviation from deck height specification as a gage of accuracy of factory machining. I don't know of a single Mopar block that's not taller than the blue print height. Some are tall by a hundred thou from there. The same worn mass production equipment did the crank bore, the bellhousing holes, positioned the cylinder bores and drilled them.
I strive for a result that is much bettter than production line quality. If you want a 375hp 440 then factory's fine. If you want a 500hp 440 it becomes more important. If you want a 550hp 512 it's even more so.
 
I'm saying that everything is in relation to the crank. I agree with everything you have said. I just lock the crank bores in as the most important feature of the block. Everything is in relation to it. You can square deck the block without align honing. You are still indexing off the crank centerline whether you align hone it or not. I have used offset dowels to center the bellhousing, even cylinder heads. I draw the line at squaring the bellhousing flange with the crank bores. Those bores are within .0005 of an inch total, to give enough crush not to spin the bearing. I doubt you are changing the crank centerline much, especially with a shop as good as yours. All the block saddles are barely touched, right down the line? ...
 
you do not have to line bore or deck it if you watched the last horse power on spike tv they just did a motor were they honed it. both stone and ball. flattened the deck with sand paper anf still did a really good job at makeing power out of what ever they wer buildingso no line honed does not need to be done. with what you are build ing the stock fasteners should be more than enough i mean new stock fasteners
 
moper said:
When I get a block back the bock saddles are barely touched. They have marks, but the centerline is NOT moved. If yours is deeply honed in the saddles then yes, your shop more than likely moved your centerline a small amount and it wasn't done well.
66fs - It's my opinion that you cannot square deck without properly locating the crank centerline. I think your belief is the bore can be located anywhere in 3d space and so long as you index off it that means the decks are square. I would agree if that the centerline could be "anywhere" if we were only concerning ourselves with the engine. However the location and direction of that centerline also affects the driveline "downstream". Power to the wheels is lost when things aren't lined up perfectly. Align boring/honing corrects the accuracy, position, and angle of the crank to exactly perpendicular to the bellhousing. Square decking takes that a step further and makes sure the decks are parallel to the crank centerline and perpendicular to the bore centerline. If you don't correct those relationships you didn't "square deck".
If someone thinks factory is "good enough" I'd suggest using the deviation from deck height specification as a gage of accuracy of factory machining. I don't know of a single Mopar block that's not taller than the blue print height. Some are tall by a hundred thou from there. The same worn mass production equipment did the crank bore, the bellhousing holes, positioned the cylinder bores and drilled them.
I strive for a result that is much bettter than production line quality. If you want a 375hp 440 then factory's fine. If you want a 500hp 440 it becomes more important. If you want a 550hp 512 it's even more so.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if they do it right, it's a minimum of material that is removed, maybe a couple of thousandths.
It's not really enough to worry about as far as timing chain ''looseness'' that is affected by this.
 
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