KH SBP with Wheel Spacers

[matthon]

Looking at spacers for the front of my 67 Barracuda with KH disc brakes.

4.5 bolt pattern and up spacers are easy to find, but I did find these for 5x4, although listed for a VW:
5x4.00 Flat Wheel Spacers

Stupid question:
How do spacers work, do they require longer wheel studs and the same lug nuts?
Or does the lug nut go through the spacer and you need longer lug nuts?

I'm guessing longer wheel studs.

I know the correct KH stud is 610-130.

I need 3/8 to make this work, my brain hurts trying to find the correct parts.

Anyone ever do this with the KH brakes?

And the reason, I want to run the old school sbp Cragar Sparklers I have on the front.
They are 14x6 with a 4.125 bs and hit the UCA when turning.

My regular 14x6 Cragars with a 3.75 bs fit fine, and I have another set of hubs/rotors I can use for this.

 

[Dana67Dart]

I would avoid spacers and get wheels with the correct back spacing.

That being said.

3/8" is not that thick and you should have plenty of lug stud especially with mag type lugs.

The mag lugs should not need to go through the spacer, they should not go all the way through the wheel, close to it but not all the way.
If they went all the way through there would be no room left for the clamping force needed to tighten the wheel on.

 

[matthon]

Thank you, my biggest concern was having enough lugnut engagement.

I have new old Cragar lug nuts that fit the wheels perfectly, and aren't garbage, like the new Cragar lug nuts, imo.

I'm not a fan of spacers but they're not making the Sparklers anymore, barely made them when they were.

 

[michiganpat]

yeah, for the same nut engagement, you'd want longer wheel studs. you could probably get by with about 1/8"-3/16" thickness with stock wheel studs, but anything thicker you would want longer studs.

 

[Dana67Dart]

I heard a mention once about 10 thread engagement. in a nut shell if you can turn the lug stud 10 times before it is tight you have enough engagement

 

[matthon]

I bought McGard nuts/washers for another set of Cragars awhile back and posted the instructions in another thread.

According to the instructions, minimum thread engagement is the width of the stud.

Sounds off to me.

I typed it from the instructions and I don't have them anymore, but I'm also an idiot.

 

[Dana67Dart]

7/16 stud and 20 tpi is 8.75 threads engagement.

In line with my memory of 10 rule of thumb

 

[Dana67Dart]

@matthon for the win.

 

[matthon]

I surprise myself sometimes.

Fyi, at least lately, Cragar lug nuts are garbage, McGard are superior.

 

[72bluNblu]

So 5x100mm is pretty darn close to 5x4". Not close enough that you should use 5x100 wheels on a 5x4" hub, but, close enough that a spacer that doesn't have 7/16" holes will likely fit over your 5x4" pattern hubs and studs. And 5x100mm spacers are everywhere. But I don't know why you wouldn't just order the spacers linked already, it's not like spacers have a make/model. Bolt pattern, hub bore and thickness are the only real considerations.

You will definitely need to chance your factory wheel studs to add a 3/8" spacer, and finding longer 7/16" studs to fit those KH hubs might definitely be an issue.

 

[matthon]

5x100mm is pretty darn close to 5x4". Not close enough that you should use 5x100 wheels

I have a set of 5x100mm wheels, and they do not fit 5x4 at all. Based on that I wouldn't bother with a 5x100mm spacer at all.

I don't know why you wouldn't just order the spacers linked already

The linked spacers are listed as 5x4 for a Volkswagon, and according to the internet VW never had a 5x4, had a 5x100mm though.
I meant to call them today, yesterday, but work and stuff, closed on weekends.

You will definitely need to chance your factory wheel studs to add a 3/8" spacer, and finding longer 7/16" studs to fit those KH hubs might definitely be an issue.

I would prefer that, and agreed. That's why I was looking to see if anyone else had been here before.

A cheap set of spacers and my brain could see for itself.
Sometimes I do things, or at least explore it, to see if it's possible.

 

[72bluNblu]

I have a set of 5x100mm wheels, and they do not fit 5x4 at all. Based on that I wouldn't bother with a 5x100mm spacer at all.

The linked spacers are listed as 5x4 for a Volkswagon, and according to the internet VW never had a 5x4, had a 5x100mm though.
I meant to call them today, yesterday, but work and stuff, closed on weekends.

I would prefer that, and agreed. That's why I was looking to see if anyone else had been here before.

A cheap set of spacers and my brain could see for itself.
Sometimes I do things, or at least explore it, to see if it's possible.

Spacers don't fit as tightly as wheels do. And while I have called people morons for running 5x100 wheels on 5x4" bolt pattern hubs, people have done that. Spacers aren't the same deal though. A set of 5x100 spacers with a slightly larger bolt hole to cover the difference in spread wouldn't cause you any grief.

Hell, the 13" Viper brake kit from DoctorDiff that I run uses rotors that have a 5x112 pattern on a 5x114.3 hub. It's a floating rotor, so it basically acts the same as a spacer would.

 

[Dana67Dart]

A cheap set of spacers and my brain could see for itself.
Sometimes I do things, or at least explore it, to see if it's possible

I do 3D printing and I can make you a plastic spacer that you can try ,( not to drive on but for fit)

Pm me if you want to give it a try

 

[matthon]

After searching for spacers and lug studs that would be longer to ensure the proper thread engagement, I had a thought.

What if I had 5x4" spacers that could accept longer lug nuts?

First I found old school Cragar kits on ebay, then new kits.

Of course none where 5x4" but I like the concept.

Cragars aren't hub centric anyway.
If the longer nuts fit into the spacer with the same tolerance as the wheel, could even bond the spacer to the wheel for the heck of it to keep it positioned while putting on wheel.

Can anyone here machine spacers?

 

[matthon]

Found a few 5x4 spacers.

Classic Industries sells 1/8 thick spacers for $50. I need 3/8 and I don't want to stack.
https://www.classicindustries.com/p...asYCc63uH3sloOdgWRUVM48m2hFUYd1hoCJj0QAvD_BwE

US Wheel Adapters, can order 5x4 spacers, multiple options on thickness, can keep or remove hub centric lip.
Can also order custom made 5x4 spacers and change the hub diameter, more importantly the stud size.

In theory, I could order 3/8 spacers with a larger stud size that matches the Cragar lug nuts. Then buy longer or open end 7/16 Cragar lug nuts.

Lug nuts would go through wheels and spacers, retaining the required thread engagement.
Also, it appears you can get the spacers with the hub centric lip to match the Cragar wheel center bore, making them hub centric wheels.

5x Custom USWA Slip-on Wheel Spacers Build to Specs

 

[33IMP]

I haven't read this whole thread, or even much of it.
Bottom line in my opinion, stud length depends on lug style the wheels require.
New style conical lugnut wheels will almost ALWAYS require longer studs, especially if using spacers.
If your wheels use mag style nuts, all you need is the proper shank length.
Personally, all my hotrods got 3"studs and open end lugs many, many years ago. (Starting shortly after I sheared all the rear studs on a 55 chevy with a big block and too-hard shifting t-400.)

 

[33IMP]

I just read your post#15.
If you can get billet custom spacers in the thickness you need, and with a hub centric shoulder, I would go that route 100%
I would entirely avoid those cast spacers! I'm using spacers on three cars. One has billet I bought, two have billet I made, one set steel, one set 7075.

 

[33IMP]

Those pictured in #14 are GARBAGE!
I wish I was still working, and my company was still in business. I could have made you some billet 7075, to order. Oh well, sorry..