Lets build a CHEAP(!!!!!!!) bracket motor!

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You will likely spend $500 for a bare 340 block that needs $2500 of machine work and parts if you're set on a 340.

Around here you can get a running and maybe driving truck or van with 5.9 for under $1000 if you look long enough.

The stock 5.9 is good for 300 gross HP.
 
If your redoing the magnum heads why not drill them out for the LA intake bolt pattern? You could then get a good used LA intake cheaper than you can get a good used intake for a magnum.
 
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Get a junkyard 360 4bbl with trans on Face book market place $200.

Cut the heads and clean up valves $100.

Thin steel gaskets $100

Keep the EX manifolds on. $00

a blow through used carb $100 .

make the piping for a used turbo from of a Cummins. $200 for all with the turbo at EZ pull.

turbo cam kit $200

That comes out to $900

Part number on those "thin steel head gaskets" if you could. Been looking for them for ever. You talking Cometics?
 
Mopar tax is a killer, nothing is cheap. Getting stuff for free from a friend doesn't count as far as i go too.

400 horse is a stretch for 1000 bucks in the mopar world. A warmed over 340 would struggle to make 400 horse, and it would be way more than 1000 dollars
400 hp with a 5.9 is easy and cheap even with brand new off the shelf parts. Let’s run this down, ready, set, go!

I got my 80K, 5.9 out of my daughters wrecked ‘00 Durango that I swapped for with a ‘99 Ford Taurus and a cranky transmission, leaking head gasket, etc... you know the Taurus drill here....

Prices below are not today’s prices so hunt these costs down at your favorite speed shop and add them up.

14 inch Open air cleaner
New Edelbrock 750 ($300 at the time)
Edelbrock RPM ($300-ish, I forget)
Hooker Super Comp headers @ 1-3/4 (B&E body) ($330 at the time)
Sub out for cheaper 1-5/8!
$30 JY distributor
$25 wires
$2 - plugs x 8 = $16
$50 - 2 X 4ft. Straight exhaust pipe
2 Hooker Aero Chambers
2 exhaust hangers, 6 clamps
New roller cam floats between $300 & $350 ish.
(Comp cams has a nice roller with similar specs to the 360/380 which has always dyno’d over 400 hp.

BAMMMMMMM BABY! 400+ hp right there!

Im sure it is more expensive than the 1G idea put forth by Greg, but as I said, those are “Brand New Prices” & bargin hunting, trade, swap from your own stash or given a part is all good game to me.

Would you turn down a xxxx part you need for free just to stay under this Theoretical $1000 build?
If you say yes, your a lier!!!!!!
 
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400 hp with a 5.9 is easy and cheap even with brand new off the shelf parts. Let’s run this down, ready, set, go!

I got my 80K, 5.9 out of my daughters wrecked ‘00 Durango that I swapped for with a ‘99 Ford Taurus and a cranky transmission, leaking head gasket, etc... you know the Taurus drill here....

Prices below are not today’s prices so hunt these costs down at your favorite speed shop and add them up.

14 inch Open air cleaner
New Edelbrock 750 ($300 at the time)
Edelbrock RPM ($300-ish, I forget)
Hooker Super Comp headers @ 1-3/4 (B&E body) ($330 at the time)
Sub out for cheaper 1-5/8!
$30 JY distributor
$25 wires
$2 - plugs x 8 = $16
$50 - 2 X 4ft. Straight exhaust pipe
2 Hooker Aero Chambers
2 exhaust hangers, 6 clamps
New roller cam floats between $300 & $350 ish.
(Comp cams has a nice roller with similar specs to the 360/380 which has always dyno’d over 400 hp.

BAMMMMMMM BABY! 400+ hp right there!

And a warmed up 340 struggles to make 400 hp?!?!?!

AND WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM AGAIN?
You have got to be joking!!!

A stock 340 is 275 hp....kinda far from 400, no?
 
Mopar tax is a killer, nothing is cheap. Getting stuff for free from a friend doesn't count as far as i go too.

400 horse is a stretch for 1000 bucks in the mopar world. A warmed over 340 would struggle to make 400 horse, and it would be way more than 1000 dollars

Any part for free is gladly accepted and for damn sure counts.
Hunt the classifieds for cheaper parts is all the better.
IDK if the cost of shipping a cam to and fro + retro ding fees is actually a worthy cost savings.
Slice and dice penny pinching time!
Your saving may vary!
:lol:
 
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Purchase a used 360, never removed the heads, installed new springs, cam bearings and a howards cam, 273 rockers, cheap headers, with glass paks, $80 remand conv with 904 trans, ran 13.20s all day long.
 
Get a junkyard 360 4bbl with trans on Face book market place $200.
Cut the heads and clean up valves $100.
Thin steel gaskets $100
Keep the EX manifolds on. $00
a blow through used carb $100 .
make the piping for a used turbo from of a Cummins. $200 for all with the turbo at EZ pull.
turbo cam kit $200
That comes out to $900

View attachment 1715468703
Well after I looked at the picture a little better I saw it was a police 318. I went and bought it for the 4bbl throttle pressure. Torque converter and power steering cooler. Also the 4bbl left side valve cover. and the locked distributor plate. I can't believe I didn't see this when (I found it on face book market place. The carb was what caught my eye. These transmissions and linkage are hard to find. When I blew the picture up I saw the 4bbl rod laying on the motor with the tab on it. That says f-body Police car only. Some good parts there.

81728584_2800373396677734_4050499522743238656_o.jpg
 
A stock 340 is 275 hp....kinda far from 400, no?
ChuckDock, sorry, I’m in posting hell. I’m having a hell of getting things working over here. Weather, dead spots on the train ride home, this F’in **** sucks and that’s just being F’in nice about it.

To answer your question.....
Yes and no. It would easily exceed the dollar amount due to cylinder deficiencies IMO. The LA head doesn’t really flow though it isn’t horrendous. Once it has a good head on top, EZ PZ. Otherwise with a stock head, it may require more cam than one might be happy with, at least in the street.

Regardless, this is a theoretical bracket engine build up and probably some real deal set ups as well.

Being the thread starter went with a 5.9 Magnum, I’ll stick with that engine as to me, it is more on topic and a 340 isn’t cheap.
And cheap is the theme.
 
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I am installing a 360 magnum into a 67 B body that cannot run faster than 13.5 for a class for my son. Got the magnum for $100.00. Has been drilled for the LA intake pattern. You can get good used stuff if you are patient.
 
ChuckDock, sorry, I’m in posting hell. I’m having a hell of getting things working over here. Weather, dead spots on the train ride home, this F’in **** sucks and that’s just being F’in nice about it.

To answer your question.....
Yes and no. It would easily exceed the dollar amount due to cylinder deficiencies IMO. The LA head doesn’t really flow though it isn’t horrendous. Once it has a good head on top, EZ PZ. Otherwise with a stock head, it may require more cam than one might be happy with, at least in the street.

Regardless, this is a theoretical bracket engine build up and probably some real deal set ups as well.

Being the thread starter went with a 5.9 Magnum, I’ll stick with that engine as to me, it is more on topic and a 340 isn’t cheap.
And cheap is the theme.
Yep. Cheap is the theme. I only asked that a mopar v8 be the base motor . being a bracket build, motor only, the cam could be as radical as the parts used in the build could handle. If a guy could get a deal on a 400 4bbl motor and get some .030 over pistons cheap it might be an interesting direction to go.
 
Probably the cheapest build would be 318 or 360 with a stocker cam, home ported heads, and 4bbl. Back it up with a 8" converter and 4.88's.
 
Ha ha ha ha... I like this thinking....
Probably the cheapest build would be 318 or 360 with a stocker cam, home ported heads, and 4bbl. Back it up with a 8" converter and 4.88's.

I have a 5.9 going this very route. Hope to do it sooner than later. Always a delay.....

Id like to take the 5.9, tube the lifter galley, ad a roller and letter rip. I have the 4.88’s in the car now. Cam and lifters are in house waiting to be installed.
 
I think you could do the stock 5.9 swap for under $1500 if you were patient and quick on the trigger.
 
Core 5.9 magnum $100-$500
Reground cam with shipping from oregon cams will run you around $180
1121g .028 head gaskets on ebay $50 a pair
Valve job and home porting $150
you can use the blue ls6 valve springs if you cut the spring pockets and will get you .550 lift capable. (also requires stock ls retainers with some grinding) $70
Ebay billet distributor $60
I dont know of any china single planes for the sbm, but used M1 or the like figure ~ $200
Cheap 1-5/8 headers ~ $100
750DP with a kit ~$200
timing set $35

then what ever you need to get it into your chassis. oil pan, pickup, timing cover, accessories, plugs, wires, water pump, fluids, filter, intake-exhaust gaskets

I have built a few this way, with enough cam they run pretty good.

I already have the spring cutter and a jig to redrill the mag heads for la pattern so that helps to keep my costs down. I also scrounge up all the stock ls retainers i can from buddies when they upgrade their valve train.
 
ChuckDock, sorry, I’m in posting hell. I’m having a hell of getting things working over here. Weather, dead spots on the train ride home, this F’in **** sucks and that’s just being F’in nice about it.

To answer your question.....
Yes and no. It would easily exceed the dollar amount due to cylinder deficiencies IMO. The LA head doesn’t really flow though it isn’t horrendous. Once it has a good head on top, EZ PZ. Otherwise with a stock head, it may require more cam than one might be happy with, at least in the street.

Regardless, this is a theoretical bracket engine build up and probably some real deal set ups as well.

Being the thread starter went with a 5.9 Magnum, I’ll stick with that engine as to me, it is more on topic and a 340 isn’t cheap.
And cheap is the theme.
All good Rumble. Dang, I wish I investigated more into the magnums before spending so much on a 340. This one happens to be quite done up and does have stage 1 edelbrock heads which was a surprise to me because I thought the big valved 340 heads were really good but you mentioned the flow issue, and that's probably why the guy who built this replaced those heads.
 
All good Rumble. Dang, I wish I investigated more into the magnums before spending so much on a 340. This one happens to be quite done up and does have stage 1 edelbrock heads which was a surprise to me because I thought the big valved 340 heads were really good but you mentioned the flow issue, and that's probably why the guy who built this replaced those heads.
IMO, for the OE equipment, the MoPar cylinder head isn’t horrible. It is just a stock passenger head on a performance mill. (AKA 340) And there is the limitation, as delivered. Some of the 340 heads flow quite well for there intended purpose of the day. The better heads will clock in around the 220 cfm area. Anyone reading this feel free to correct me if they have actual flow numbers or there 340 head. It’s all good there!

Before the Edelbrock head was introduced, you ether ported your iron or went to Ma’MoPar and grabbed better iron. (W2’s) This was nearly the only route for a better head for a while.

Member @yellow rose often said/says (and ever so correctly!) that making HP (and winning the race) is a function of rpm in the form of as many (rpm) as you can get in quicker. The shorter stroke can produce more cycles of power making explosions than a longer stroke engine can. It is a matter of distance the piston travels. This has been known for a very long time. This method is what the Europeans have employed in there race cars since nearly the dawn of automotive racing.

Now combine the 340’s shorter stroke with a higher flowing cylinder head and, well, LOL, your half way there. The rest is a two part duet dance between a fast acting high valve rising cam correctly cut & timed for the intended purpose with free breathing in and out.

On a race track, this is a good and normal way to do it. The flip side is huge torque and a low gear ratio to have the engine pull the car through. This is the (Well, IMO) best way to do it on the street. Torque is major fun here. And your friend on your street, street strip car.

The 340 is the top OE SB HP maker dog.
The 360/Magnum is the next best bet. And from where I stand, it is really the best bang for the buck for the street based car on that most people will desire more torque for an easier time moving there car down the street because a street car is heavier. More than likely with all the goodies we love to have. PS, PB, AC, stereo, best & defrost, spare tires and tools for a trip, etc.... the list goes on & on for the things a strip or a seriously heavy duty street strip car will not have. And when you think about it, that is a whole lot of weight. The enemy of a quick low ET/high MPH car.

I like that CL 5.9. Just like what I pirated from my daughters wrecked 80K Durango, same year.

Now how heavy is your future 340 car?
(Answer really not required)
 
Core 5.9 magnum $100-$500
Reground cam with shipping from oregon cams will run you around $180
1121g .028 head gaskets on ebay $50 a pair
Valve job and home porting $150
you can use the blue ls6 valve springs if you cut the spring pockets and will get you .550 lift capable. (also requires stock ls retainers with some grinding) $70
Ebay billet distributor $60
I dont know of any china single planes for the sbm, but used M1 or the like figure ~ $200
Cheap 1-5/8 headers ~ $100
750DP with a kit ~$200
timing set $35

then what ever you need to get it into your chassis. oil pan, pickup, timing cover, accessories, plugs, wires, water pump, fluids, filter, intake-exhaust gaskets

I have built a few this way, with enough cam they run pretty good.

I already have the spring cutter and a jig to redrill the mag heads for la pattern so that helps to keep my costs down. I also scrounge up all the stock ls retainers i can from buddies when they upgrade their valve train.

Oh hey! Thanks for the price list and even more so on the cam regrind cost.

I kind of wish that @gregsdart would have thought of this earlier! :poke:
 
IMO, for the OE equipment, the MoPar cylinder head isn’t horrible. It is just a stock passenger head on a performance mill. (AKA 340) And there is the limitation, as delivered. Some of the 340 heads flow quite well for there intended purpose of the day. The better heads will clock in around the 220 cfm area. Anyone reading this feel free to correct me if they have actual flow numbers or there 340 head. It’s all good there!

Before the Edelbrock head was introduced, you ether ported your iron or went to Ma’MoPar and grabbed better iron. (W2’s) This was nearly the only route for a better head for a while.

Member @yellow rose often said/says (and ever so correctly!) that making HP (and winning the race) is a function of rpm in the form of as many (rpm) as you can get in quicker. The shorter stroke can produce more cycles of power making explosions than a longer stroke engine can. It is a matter of distance the piston travels. This has been known for a very long time. This method is what the Europeans have employed in there race cars since nearly the dawn of automotive racing.

Now combine the 340’s shorter stroke with a higher flowing cylinder head and, well, LOL, your half way there. The rest is a two part duet dance between a fast acting high valve rising cam correctly cut & timed for the intended purpose with free breathing in and out.

On a race track, this is a good and normal way to do it. The flip side is huge torque and a low gear ratio to have the engine pull the car through. This is the (Well, IMO) best way to do it on the street. Torque is major fun here. And your friend on your street, street strip car.

The 340 is the top OE SB HP maker dog.
The 360/Magnum is the next best bet. And from where I stand, it is really the best bang for the buck for the street based car on that most people will desire more torque for an easier time moving there car down the street because a street car is heavier. More than likely with all the goodies we love to have. PS, PB, AC, stereo, best & defrost, spare tires and tools for a trip, etc.... the list goes on & on for the things a strip or a seriously heavy duty street strip car will not have. And when you think about it, that is a whole lot of weight. The enemy of a quick low ET/high MPH car.

I like that CL 5.9. Just like what I pirated from my daughters wrecked 80K Durango, same year.

Now how heavy is your future 340 car?
(Answer really not required)
Good stuff for sure.
The 67 cuda I have, on the title is says 27xx pounds! Which seems really light considering its a 273 v8 car originally.
I just got done putting a 3:55 in it, 8 3/4. It had a 2.92 7.25 OEM. I have a done up 904, manual reverse valve body, shift kit, and deep pan, 9 inch 4k stall, plus a roller 340, with everything done up on it. The only thing I don't know is the compression but I'm sure the ratio is way up there. An airplane mechanic put this together.
Though, I am real happy with the street-ability of the 273 with the crap gears, it was good on the highway. I drove 500 miles to Carlisle last summer, and now with this setup, that won't be possible. Thats why I like the idea of a warmed over 5.9. The 273 is just to much of a dog. It runs good, and has been rebuilt and seems dependable but just no real guts as is. I could de-tune the 340 though, and then add an overdrive but at some point I have to quit jamming so much money into this car, lol! I'm 58 and would like to retire at 62!
But, burnouts should be amazing once I slap this setup in the car!
I have a Garage setup on fabo, check it out!

motor.jpg
 
So all those guys that say in other threads (some may be on this thread as well)

"no substitute for displacement"

...might be wrong?
 
So all those guys that say in other threads (some may be on this thread as well)

"no substitute for displacement"

...might be wrong?
Not necessarily. Here’s the thing. A 360 vs a 340 build with the same exact equipment, the 360 will make peak HP at an earlier rpm. Conversely, the 340 will make more top end HP at a higher rpm and hold on to that power longer where as the longer stroke engine starts to fall off.

As I stated above, you can ether rev the heck out of it in a short stroke engine to provide more working cycles per second or use a longer stroke engine to provide more torque to have the engine pull the car harder with more torque.

In order for the longer stroke engine to be more competitive, you have to start playing with gearing (trans and rear end) converter and tire size to maximize the power plants output for the 1/4 mile. This will show differently between the two cars when the engines are done the same way other than there actual displacement.

Bigger is better but it has to be utilized differently when bigger is in the stroke.
 
So all those guys that say in other threads (some may be on this thread as well)

"no substitute for displacement"

...might be wrong?
I think its "there is no replacement for displacement", lol.
That could be a giant thread all on its own.
Logic agrees though IMO. Take a giant motor, and do the same stuff to it as a small motor and then just it just makes more horses I would think.
 
The fallacy in the general assumption that bigger is always better (in this case, anyway) is that no other factors are considered, in this case head flow, or bore size- bore/stroke ratio.

I've never liked that statement and I stand by my dislike.
 
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