MegaSquirt (MS3) or Holley HP EFI

[408scamp]

Looking for opinions. Doing a Turbo magnum swap into a Scamp. Want to stay EFI and have the tunability. Will be mainly street driven but want the ability to turn up the boost and go play on or off track. Anyone with experience with either system? From what i understand, the Holley is SIGNIFICANTLY more expensive. I guess the question is, Is it really worth the extra money when budget is a concern?

 

[DionR]

Lot's of comments on the MS3 stuff if you search. Here are a couple of threads, might search on their screen names and see what else they have said.

MS3 Pro Sequential Injection + Coil near plug conversion thread

Anyone else using MegaSquirt on a LA motor?

LA sequential fuel and spark EFI conversion

 

[DNasty777]

I have a Terminator X and I'm starting to sour on the whole Holley ecosystem. I would definitely encourage you to really drill down on what and how you want to set up your car before coming to a final decision. If you think you are going to want to run other brand modules over CAN communication, forget about Holley altogether. Also Holley does not support an 8x crank trigger, so you'll need to modify the flexplate or run another trigger wheel that they support somewhere else.

 

[DionR]

I have a Terminator X and I'm starting to sour on the whole Holley ecosystem. I would definitely encourage you to really drill down on what and how you want to set up your car before coming to a final decision. If you think you are going to want to run other brand modules over CAN communication, forget about Holley altogether.

Great info. What other modules were you hoping to run?

Also Holley does not support an 8x crank trigger, so you'll need to modify the flexplate or run another trigger wheel that they support somewhere else.

Looks like the Holley dual sync distributor is another option, too.

This guy has a pretty good video on setting up a Terminator X system on a Magnum.

 

[TT5.9mag]

You’ll have to define the build a little more to get better input but for a magnum with factory EFI and a 46re trans it’s hard to beat the jtec ecu with HP Tuners, prior to hp tuners support I ran an MS3 piggy backed on top of the jtec and that was a nightmare. I have experience with Holley dominator on a few different race cars and it’s awesome but I would not use it with the factory efi, it’s overkill. I absolutely love my AEM infinity ecu but support for that platform is gone since Holley bought AEM for the technology and adapted it to the dominator ecus (which may be why I like them). @DNasty777 what don’t you like about the terminator x?

 

[408scamp]

You’ll have to define the build a little more to get better input but for a magnum with factory EFI and a 46re trans it’s hard to beat the jtec ecu with HP Tuners, prior to hp tuners support I ran an MS3 piggy backed on top of the jtec and that was a nightmare. I have experience with Holley dominator on a few different race cars and it’s awesome but I would not use it with the factory efi, it’s overkill. I absolutely love my AEM infinity ecu but support for that platform is gone since Holley bought AEM for the technology and adapted it to the dominator ecus (which may be why I like them). @DNasty777 what don’t you like about the terminator x?

I honestly never thought about using the factory or the 46re. I have been thinking custom the whole time but may be over complicating. I guess part of my issue is that I don't have a distinct end goal in mind, which makes he whole thing complicated. Probably watch too many Sick Week videos LOL. Always wanted mid to low 9 second street car that was still comfortable to cruise around in. Wanting to have the framework in place to upgrade along the way.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I honestly never thought about using the factory or the 46re. I have been thinking custom the whole time but may be over complicating. I guess part of my issue is that I don't have a distinct end goal in mind, which makes he whole thing complicated. Probably watch too many Sick Week videos LOL. Always wanted mid to low 9 second street car that was still comfortable to cruise around in. Wanting to have the framework in place to upgrade along the way.

I’m in the planning stages of a drag and drive car for myself currently as well, and I’ll be using a turbo magnum 5.9 with a tremec T56 magnum. But mine will be blow through carbureted. I’d suggest narrowing down the hard parts of the build plan (engine, trans, diff) then decide on electronics (efi, carb, aftermarket or factory equipment) and then ask the same questions.

 

[DNasty777]

@DNasty777 what don’t you like about the terminator x?

First one was DOA (which I hear is quite common), if I had installed it a week later Holley would have charged me for a replacement. Their CAN protocol is proprietary, they really want to lock you into their ecosystem. That’s fine for a lot of people, for most probably, but I like to do weird stuff. Their documentation is really good, especially if you are doing a run of the mill Chevy setup. Once you stray though, it’s not much help. Their documentation on their site is also now at least one revision behind.

The price point is weird, for like $200 more you can get an EcuMaxx Race or Haltech Rebel LS.

It’s probably just buyers remorse, but now the EcuMaxx natively supports the 8HP, and that’s the direction I’m going.

 

[TT5.9mag]

First one was DOA (which I hear is quite common), if I had installed it a week later Holley would have charged me for a replacement. Their CAN protocol is proprietary, they really want to lock you into their ecosystem. That’s fine for a lot of people, for most probably, but I like to do weird stuff. Their documentation is really good, especially if you are doing a run of the mill Chevy setup. Once you stray though, it’s not much help. Their documentation on their site is also now at least one revision behind.

The price point is weird, for like $200 more you can get an EcuMaxx Race or Haltech Rebel LS.

It’s probably just buyers remorse, but now the EcuMaxx natively supports the 8HP, and that’s the direction I’m going.

Haven’t heard of EcuMaxx race. Is this it?
MaxxECU - The modern ECU

 

[DNasty777]

Haven’t heard of EcuMaxx race. Is this it?
MaxxECU - The modern ECU

Yes that’s the one.

 

[TT5.9mag]

Yes that’s the one.

Researching now

 

[408scamp]

I’m in the planning stages of a drag and drive car for myself currently as well, and I’ll be using a turbo magnum 5.9 with a tremec T56 magnum. But mine will be blow through carbureted. I’d suggest narrowing down the hard parts of the build plan (engine, trans, diff) then decide on electronics (efi, carb, aftermarket or factory equipment) and then ask the same questions.

I have the 5.9 Magnum and Dana 60. I do have the 47RE out of the donor truck but it was a 4x4 truck and transfer case is in place of tail shaft and housing so was going to go another route. Just unsure of which transmission. There is a 904 in the car now, so to at least get it up and running will use that, but ultimately want to end up with overdrive automatic.

 

[DNasty777]

I have the 5.9 Magnum and Dana 60. I do have the 47RE out of the donor truck but it was a 4x4 truck and transfer case is in place of tail shaft and housing so was going to go another route. Just unsure of which transmission. There is a 904 in the car now, so to at least get it up and running will use that, but ultimately want to end up with overdrive automatic.

8HP70 out of a charger! Built in transbrake and manual valve body.

 

[DionR]

Personal opinion, hard to beat an 8HP70 or similar for a drag and drive event. As mentioned, built in transbrake, plus wicked fast shifts and more steps from first to 1:1 (6th) to keep the motor in the power band. Plus, after all is said and done, throw it in drive and cruise at 1500 rpm or something low like that. Might even be able to program a "sport mode" button for drag race snap your neck shifts and then tone it down when cruising to the next venue. Additionally, because first is 4.70ish, the rear gear can be something much milder and maybe cheaper because most people with a 2.94 throw/give it away.

 

[subcom]

I run the MS3PRO Evo on my turbo’d 5.9 Magnum. I love all of the features that are included ootb and use many of them. I will say that when I go to the track most folks run the Holley and there are plenty of tuners that know it. That said, Megasquirt has a very active and helpful community.

 

[408scamp]

TT5.9 Mag - Did you come to any conclusions with the MaxxEcu?

I've been reading up on it and thinking 2 birds 1 stone with engine management plus 8hp control. But, most info I am finding is guys running 4cyl/6cyl imports with this ECU. Anyone have any experience with this thing with V8 turbo and 8hp control? Don't know that I'm smart enough to be the guinea pig project, but seems interesting.

 

[TT5.9mag]

TT5.9 Mag - Did you come to any conclusions with the MaxxEcu?

No, but I wasn’t trying to come to any conclusions. I was just curious how it stacked up compared to Holley, AEM, MS3 type stuff. It has a lot of nice features and a few nice plug and play options but that’s as far as I’ve researched it.

 

[Map63Vette]

I've really liked my Megasquirt system over the years (on a 5.7 Hemi, not Magnum). I started with an MS2/Extra that I bought as a takeoff from a 340 and have since upgraded it to a full MS3X setup. I think what I like the most is the open source nature of it and the ability to work your way up in features. When I first installed it I just had it running fuel with an MSD box doing the spark, but with the upgrade to the MS3X I wired the ignition in as well so all the tuning was in one spot. Over the years I've worked on getting a lot of the features functioning on my car like closed loop idle, traction control (via a front wheel speed sensor I added), check engine lights, launch control, flat shift, etc. I'm guessing you could probably do the same with any ECU, but it's nice to have the flexibility. I have started playing more with the CAN stuff as well with my Raspberry Pi and an Arduino gauge pod I built, so that's been kind of fun. I've had it on the car for probably close to a decade now, but am starting to dig into my tune more now that the car has gone back to daily driving service. It's pretty crazy to see how different my tune is today from where it was before, yet the car doesn't necessarily feel all that different. Mostly just trying to really clean up my tables and get good fuel mileage.

All that said, I haven't played with any of the boost features as my setup is NA, so hard to say how they compare. From the spec sheets there are plenty of fun things you can do, but that's above my head for now.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I've really like my Megasquirt system over the years (on a 5.7 Hemi, not Magnum). I started with an MS2/Extra that I bought as a takeoff from a 340 and have since upgraded it to a full MS3X setup. I think what I like the most is the open source nature of it and the ability to work your way up in features. When I first installed it I just had it running fuel with an MSD box doing the spark, but with the upgrade to the MS3X I wire the ignition in as well so all the tuning was in one spot. Over the years I've worked on getting a lot of the features functioning on my car like closed loop idle, traction control (via a front wheel speed sensor I added), check engine lights, launch control, flat shift, etc. I'm guessing you could probably do the same with any ECU, but it's nice to have the flexibility. I have started playing more with the CAN stuff as well with my Raspberry Pi and an Arduino gauge pod I built, so that's been kind of fun. I've had it on the car for probably close to a decade now, but am starting to dig into my tune more now that the car has gone back to daily driving service. It's pretty crazy to see how different my tune is today from where it was before, yet the car doesn't necessarily feel all that different. Mostly just trying to really clean up my tables and get good fuel mileage.

All that said, I haven't played with any of the boost features as my setup is NA, so hard to say how they compare. From the spec sheets there are plenty of fun things you can do, but that's above my head for now.

Sounds like you’ve got the NA stuff handled pretty well. Time to add BOOST!

 

[Map63Vette]

Sounds like you’ve got the NA stuff handled pretty well. Time to add BOOST!

Lol, I have toyed with the idea many times, but if I did go boost I'd probably end up with a supercharger, so not too much change on the tuning side. The reality is that my chassis is probably not up for the task anyway. I'm picking up some metal for frame connectors this week, but based on all the other rust and thin spots I see, I think a nice comfy ~400 hp cruiser sounds about right.

 

[TT5.9mag]

a supercharger, so not too much change on the tuning side.

Not exactly sure what you mean by that. Any positive manifold pressure and you’re going to have to tune for it. Doesn’t really matter what implement of boost you choose.

 

[Map63Vette]

Not exactly sure what you mean by that. Any positive manifold pressure and you’re going to have to tune for it. Doesn’t really matter what implement of boost you choose.

I mean more that I wouldn't have to worry about waste gates or boost control or a lot of the other fun toys you get with turbos. Stuff like boost by gear or pressure control for various faults and whatnot. Certainly nice things to have and a lot of novel things you can do with them, but kind of less useful on a supercharger setup. For sure you'd still have to tune the main fueling and spark tables regardless, but in some senses it wouldn't be much different than tuning NA when tuning supercharged, you just have a larger range of manifold pressures to deal with.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I mean more that I wouldn't have to worry about waste gates or boost control or a lot of the other fun toys you get with turbos. Stuff like boost by gear or pressure control for various faults and whatnot. Certainly nice things to have and a lot of novel things you can do with them, but kind of less useful on a supercharger setup. For sure you'd still have to tune the main fueling and spark tables regardless, but in some senses it wouldn't be much different than tuning NA when tuning supercharged, you just have a larger range of manifold pressures to deal with.

Ok I’m with ya now. Makes sense.

 

[bjkadron]

Has anyone used the Haltech Elite? It looks to be slightly cheaper than the terminator and is more open like the Megasquirt.

 

[DNasty777]

Which version of the elite are you looking at because most of them only have output for 4 or 6 injectors, only the 2500 has 8. That would limit you to batch fire. The elites, while good, are their older models. The most comparable to a terminator x would be the rebel LS. Haltech seems like they make a good ECU and I wouldn’t hesitate to run one.