My doomed 408 build

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BlooDSMeaR said:
PRH, you have been very helpful I appreciate your knowledge.

After re-reading everything, I would like to state the car is 20% street, 80% strip. I originally bought the car so I could use my father in laws wrecked one to rebuild his car. Then My father in law said he wouldn't drive a purple car. I got stuck with it. Since it was started being built in to a drag car, I went that route. The car is for doing the summer Cruz and drag strip as I'd like to start bracket racing


If the Cam flattens again, I will be replacing the block. And get a new cam from Hughes.
Yes, I have crane gold 1.5 roller rockers.

Since my heads were new out of box and they were unmolested at this point, I am sure that the locks have not been upgraded. I just ordered a set locks from summit along with an oil pump primer tool. Thanks for the heads up!!
I also had ordered a kit for building push rods from Hughes.

As for doing the dyno, I wanted to get the car set up and baselined before I went to the track and wranged it out. I wanted to make sure there were no build problems and that the cam install went correctly. I also wanted to find where the power band was so I knew when to shift. To me that was worth the extra $400.

You have to remember that the pissed off Owner didn't make a cent off of me, as the defunct shop operator was the person who I paid. My engine was mid way getting rebuilt when pissed off shop owner took over the shop. That money didn't get paid to the shop owner. The shop owner did every thing he could to limit his cost of finishing my rebuild. Not changing the springs as required was one of his cost cutting methods.
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:popcorn:
 
Got the motor pulled last night. Ill tear down tomorrow morning. OH what fun it is to run a one horse open ...... POS.....
 
Finished the tear down and rebuild with my dad yesterday. I have a machine shop guy coming over tonight to measure the push rods, and double check our work. It actually was easier then expected. While it was apart I almost sent the heads to Shady Dell.... I still might.
 
Shame all this happened. I would like to know what kind of dyno was used. That print out doesn't look like any I've ever seen. Kind of all over the place?

I have NEVER spent more than 300 bucks for a day on the pump. My guy does all my machine work and I schedule "when you have a slow day". I like the fact that I KNOW exactly what my motor likes and doesn't like. More importantly, after 10 or 12 pulls, you KNOW nothing is eating itself and you have no leaks, weeps, or drips.

IF available.....the dyno is a must. I spend 8 or 9 grand on parts I better know damn well all is ok before I shoehorn it in the car.

Now that my rant is over, I sure hope the OP gets everything straightened out soon!
 
BlooDSMeaR said:
Finished the tear down and rebuild with my dad yesterday. I have a machine shop guy coming over tonight to measure the push rods, and double check our work. It actually was easier then expected. While it was apart I almost sent the heads to Shady Dell.... I still might.
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So you tore it down, diagnosed, and rebuilt it in 4 days? Other than measuring your pushrods-What exactly is your machine shop guy going to check? I'm assuming the engine is together as in oil pan and intake on.

What did you find during your 4 day thrash? J.Rob
 
Ironmike said:
Shame all this happened. I would like to know what kind of dyno was used. That print out doesn't look like any I've ever seen. Kind of all over the place?

I have NEVER spent more than 300 bucks for a day on the pump. My guy does all my machine work and I schedule "when you have a slow day". I like the fact that I KNOW exactly what my motor likes and doesn't like. More importantly, after 10 or 12 pulls, you KNOW nothing is eating itself and you have no leaks, weeps, or drips.

IF available.....the dyno is a must. I spend 8 or 9 grand on parts I better know damn well all is ok before I shoehorn it in the car.

Now that my rant is over, I sure hope the OP gets everything straightened out soon!
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$300 bucks for a DAY on the pump? Better at least pay for his lunch, and hope he doesn't actually figure out what his time and actual cost is worth. J.Rob
 
BlooDSMeaR said:
Finished the tear down and rebuild with my dad yesterday. I have a machine shop guy coming over tonight to measure the push rods, and double check our work. It actually was easier then expected. While it was apart I almost sent the heads to Shady Dell.... I still might.
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You may want to talk to PRH about porting you heads. He's given you a lot of good advice.
 
This is got to be one of the most painful threads I've ever read... When does the money and time spending stop!? Of course I got notice yesterday that the conversation was continuing, but it took me another day to painfully take a look...
it's not that I couldn't push the ignore button it's more like a train wreck that you just can't turn your eyes away from...
:popcorn:
 
My Dad and I worked on it all weekend.
We tore the engine down to the short block, removed the cam, lifter rollers and the cam lobes were damaged. #8 exhaust lifter
roller had locked up and ate the lobe. Obviously the wrong weight of valve spring, and the lifters were bouncing off of the cam.
We then took the short block apart, cleaned out every last inch that I could see with a case and a half of brake cleaner. We then put it all together.
We then followed the directions from HUGHES to the letter on cam and lifter install, while also verifying that the lifters spun in the bores as they should.
The guy from the machine shop spent a little bit of time double checking torque on the bottom end. He measured push-rod lengths, and took my push-rod kit I bought from Hughes, and is building them for me. He said I did a good job and everything looks good to go.The intake timing cover and oil pan were not on the engine when my guy came over. The guy also took the heads back off so he could take them with him to change out the springs. He said he has a way to install the center springs after we do the cam brake in, without pulling the heads. More will follow...
 
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Hope it turns out better this time, but hope you finished your block washing with soap and water? I would personally NEVER use brake clean in this situation....
 
replicaracer43 said:
Hope it turns out better this time, but hope you finished your block washing with soap and water? I would personally NEVER use brake clean in this situation....
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We did not wash the block with soap and water. I also did not remove any freeze plugs. My Dad and I felt that with brake cleaner and compressed air we would get any debris loose, and then a light film of WD-40 to keep it from flash rusting. We used engine assembly lube on all bearing faces, motor oil when installing the pistons, Guy from machine shop said that was OK, and what he would do.
 
WD-40 is not a lubricant! It is a cleaner and will dry up. Personally I use something like BP blaster that is a lubricant and a penetrate. Just four S's and G's I looked up Hughes push rod kits and I just couldn't believe my eyes!$195? I assume that's plus shipping? You do know Smith Brothers in Redmond Oregon has heat-treated 4130 custom pushrods likely sent to your door for under $100 correct? Maybe as long as a two-day turnaround but mostly a one-day... It's what they do...
I think for free they will send you an adjustable pushrod to make a template for the rest.. I think...
 
I feel like I have to reiterate every time that my comments come from utter frustration. Because I don't want to be seeming like I'm blasting on your intelligence or something like that which I'm not trying to do.
 
BlooDSMeaR said:
We did not wash the block with soap and water. I also did not remove any freeze plugs. My Dad and I felt that with brake cleaner and compressed air we would get any debris loose, and then a light film of WD-40 to keep it from flash rusting. We used engine assembly lube on all bearing faces, motor oil when installing the pistons, Guy from machine shop said that was OK, and what he would do.
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Is having a guy from a machine shop checkoff stuff that Hughes sent you apart of their warranty?
 
j par said:
WD-40 is not a lubricant! It is a cleaner and will dry up.
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Uuumm, huh?

From the WD40 website:
WD-40's lubricating ingredients are widely dispersed and hold firmly to all moving parts.
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And:
WD-40® protects metal surfaces with corrosion-resistant ingredients to shield against moisture and other corrosive elements.
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PRH said:
Uuumm, huh?

From the WD40 website:
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And look at Hughes website and they're all self proclaiming propaganda! The next time you have a small spill on your garage floor use a little WD-40 to clean up the oil mess and tell me and if in half hour it's not all dried up and looks like nothing happened...
this whole thread is a big mess of propaganda that was fed to the OP and we don't need to feed them anymore. This is Real World experience that I'm talking about...
 
j par said:
Is having a guy from a machine shop checkoff stuff that Hughes sent you apart of their warranty?
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No, having the guy come from the machine shop has nothing to do with the warranty from Hughes, but to me it was worth the $300.00 bucks for him to change out the springs on the heads, measure and build the push-rods, and the piece of mind that some one with more experience working on engines has looked it over. Also for him to be there on start up for the first time, for the cam brake in, and then install the center valve springs. I call it as cheap as I can get insurance.
 
I’ve been using WD40 to keep freshly machined blocks and heads from flash rusting since 1989....... I have plenty of real world experience with it.

I think you need to just sign off and go out and get some fresh air.
You’re getting yourself even more worked up about this build than the owner.

It appears he’s got it taken care of.
 
BlooDSMeaR said:
No, having the guy come from the machine shop has nothing to do with the warranty from Hughes, but to me it was worth the $300.00 bucks for him to change out the springs on the heads, measure and build the push-rods, and the piece of mind that some one with more experience working on engines has looked over it.
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the reason I ask this is because I just had a customer that had a crate motor and had a big check list of stuff that he had to have a Certified mechanic check off on so the warranty was valid. what really got me was the motor was already Dyno tested and the stuff on the checklist was stuff you needed the oil pan off for? It was quite ridiculous and looked like a big loophole for the manufacturer. Today's modern mechanic is a far cry from yesterday's. And to give that a little validity my son is a full Certified mechanic and does not have a timing light and cannot tune a carburetor. These things had stopped being used before he was born ! LOL..
 
PRH said:
I’ve been using WD40 to keep freshly machined blocks and heads from flash rusting since 1989....... I have plenty of real world experience with it.
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I would really like this WD-40 discussion to be on its own thread so it can be clear to everyone. Honestly you've had a freshly machine Block in the open-air with one coat of WD-40 on it since 1989?
 
PRH said:
I’ve been using WD40 to keep freshly machined blocks and heads from flash rusting since 1989....... I have plenty of real world experience with it.

I think you need to just sign off and go out and get some fresh air.
You’re getting yourself even more worked up about this build than the owner.

It appears he’s got it taken care of.
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No he paid another $300 to have someone else take care of it. you think I need to sign off and get some fresh air! LOL that's a hoot, what else do you tell people to do LOL
 
j par said:
No he paid another $300 to have someone else take care of it. you think I need to sign off and get some fresh air! LOL that's a hoot, what else do you tell people to do LOL
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To me the money was worth it. I have helped other people assemble engines, but I have not done a complete job by myself. for how many thousands of dollars I have spent on this engine, $300 more bucks is not going to make a dent in the total cost. To me its insurance so I don't over look any thing, and cost me another $2k...
 
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