my first engine rebuild (318) advises

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My son's 360 came with some KB pistons. While installing the pistons, one of the skirts cracked a small piece off (we didn't ever bang it hard at all - it just fell the f*ck off). I don't like how thin the KB piston skirts are. I went with a set of sealed power pistons from summit. The skirt on them was almost twice as thick.
 
Make sure that when you take the engine apart, you keep all the rod caps back on the same rod that they were originally on. Same with the main bearing caps.
 
Hi, when I rebuilt my cousins 318, the biggest problem was the variation on the deck height.
We had to remove a fair bit to square up the decks.

Also, I didn't see mention what grade of fuel you will be using.
If you're after fuel economy very hard to beat a Q-jet.
 
I have 1 year old carb, summit brand 600cfm, not going to change it for now, it works well and gets decent mpg on current comp. i will be using o2 sensor to tune it after rebuild.

fuel here is 95 or 98 oct, it says that it is... 95 has 10% alcohol and 98 has 5%.
i will be using 98 its not so much more expensive than 95
98 is 1.71€/L
95 is 1.65€/L

i will be getting my ''new'' a500 trans soon. So thats my first thing to check and see if it needs rebuilding.
guy hwo is selling it has receipt from 2002 when he rebuilded trans in local shop and bought new torque converter.

Last month of driving this summer till i put duster in garage and start rebuild
 
I would be using 98 at those prices as well. Also, (I'm sure you all know) 98 in euro is same as 93 in usa.

I would aim for 9.5-10:1 comps on iron heads using that fuel. If you're going to put money into a set of iron heads I would also suggest getting the edelbrock heads. They are not that much dearer than reconditioning and porting your iron heads.
But you will need to strip down the edelbrock heads to check everything is right, this you can do yourself.
By using the alloy heads you can up the comp ratio to say 10.5:1 on 98 (and save 30lb over the front axle).
But check the deck height, the 318 I did varied greatly from side to side and front to back.
Also, what shape is your distributor in? I had mopar electronic on my 273 that was fairly old, I replaced it with one of those big cap chinese hei distributors from ebay and it was a major improvement.
 
i will put most of my money this year to shortblock, pistons, rods? new bearings, pumps ect.

IF my stock heads are good shape i will be using them next summer, after that, rebuild but most likely swap.

compression goal is about 9.5-10:1

Last page frosty the punk suggested these newer 318 piston, those dont work whit stock rods BUT could i use eagle sir rods, or scat rods with those pistons.
Total cost would be about same, and i would get new pistons and rods about same prize as KB.?

i have just get engine opened and calculate actual compression ratio before buying parts.

i have tools to measure decks, cranksaft bores, most of things exept pistons bores and i need balance whole thing.

i have that book and factory manual to guide me on basics.
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Small-Block-Mopar-Design/dp/1932494545"]How to Rebuild the Small-Block Mopar (S-A Design): Bill Burt: 9781932494549: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

I will brobably check everything about 10 times before puting it back together. :)
 
My suggestions are that the stock rods are plenty strong for driver car w your compression and hp needs. If you are going to have the crank balanced then you could polish the sides of the rods to remove any burrs or nicks. The 1.88 valves should be good for you also as better low & midrange torque. You only need 2.02 intake for higher rpm hp. As for piston pins, most new pistons come with pins. Good luck with your rebuild.
 
Just an FYI on the rods. I purchased a set of scat I beams ($270) for a 408 that I'm building and about 3 of the rods had to be resized.
So buying new doesn't always guarantee they'll be perfect.
If you go ARP bolts on your old rods they will have to be resized.
 
I would use stock rods,fine .Krazykuda's posts,real world. Instead of spending big bucks,on a Lunati cam kit.,Check out ,Summit Racing's k6901 cam kit.(basically,a stock 69 340 cam,and lifters. ).Unless,10 to 1, mildly ported heads,a waste of cash(in my opinion,only).
 
Well. some good news.
went to see local machine shop (just under 100miles away) and they had really
decent prices, honing for example was 20€ hole, i think thats ok.
Only thing that they cant do is balance crankshaft, but they can send it so south Finland
for balancing.

And no I cant find here machine shop that is specialized on mopars :)
but guys at shop seem wery knowledgeable.


So i will most likely to reuse old rods, dont know about rod bolts yet.
I am not decided what cam i am going to use.
one reason i am thinking bit more costly parts for engine is reliability, dont want wipe lobe etc, but those are brobably caused by bad rebuild or break in, like most of engine broblems after rebuild... So i have to be really careful when rebuilding engine, parts back to correct spots, not to miss stuff.

Other thing i builded engine mount from scrap metal, did brobably bit overkill on strength, thats really thick steel. i will add wheels on that later.
 

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For what you are doing I suggest the following.
Use your stock crank, rods, do a clean cut on the crank, normally .010/.010, recondition stock rods, re-use the stock rod bolts.
Up the compression with KB pistons, balance the entire bottom end.
Fresh valve job on the heads, with new valve springs.
Pick a cam according to how the short block mic's out for compression.
The intake you have does not really match the ports, but will work.
Summy carb is hit or miss but look really hard at the new 625 street demon carbs, I have one on my stock 318 and it gives good mpg.
 
well it has been a while. but i finaly got duster on garage and started teardown.
going to remove engine from the down, taking trans and k member away at same time.

Soon as i see how the engine looks inside i can finish my plans.

BTW that start of house, least logs were on that garage before so thats the delay:)
 

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If you have to replace pistons wouldn't you get the most bang for your buck if you used stock "69 318 pistons. I own a "69 'cuda it came with 9.2 to 1 compression (factory). When I tore it down to replace the heads the pistons were only .035 down in the hole. These are original stockers. They must be the tallest pistons they put in the 318s. I had read about some pistons being .100 down in the hole and when I bought a '74 318 I found it to be true. Anyway since you are on a budget stock pistons would be cheap and I run low the lowest grade gas with no problem. Why spend a lot of money when you can get long life and good performance with stock pistons. You wouldn't have to shave the heads very much to get to 9.5 to 1 or more. And if you can get a set of 302s you could easily get 9.5 to 1 or higher (closed chamber 69CC and some quench, that's what I am running now). Just my opinion.

Treblig
 
Well. opened engine up some more today.

Looks very clean, no sludge, or metal pieces anywhere. piston bores looks good i can clearly see honing pattern.

But looks like engine has been rebuilded some time in past. rods have stamped numbers on them and one had some surface rust.

Pistons have four valve reliefs and 0.020 markings on top, pistons almost look like speed pro pistons:
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/slp-285ap30/overview/make/dodge

Heads look good too, some had carbon buildup, but valves look like they seal good, put some gas on heads when they were upside down, and none leaked.

I have continue teardown to see cam and rest of engine but good so far

I have to still measure everything.

cam is brobably stock and those pistons are down in hole, way down so last rebuild was just basic rebuild, not performance.

car did had stock 2bbr carb and intake, 7 1/4 rear points ing, so not performance rebuild.
 

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Sometimes a discolored rod (brownish) can mean that the rod overheated sometime in the past. May not be rust at all.

treblig
 
ok. good to know. its just one rod that is brown rest are normal color.
 
Looks like a replacement rod.

Also, just so you know, frosty is right, the a500 requires modifying the torsion bar/ trans brace area to get it to clear, but it's about the same length as a 727, within 1/2" or so.

If you do go with the a500, you would benefit from getting a higher gear ratio in the rear axle, without hurting your cruising RPM. Shooting for around 2000-2300 is a comfortable range with these engines. Any lower and it starts messing around on you, especially if you live in or near the hills.
 
a500 is just an idea, but I like to get od someday. Modifying trans support and drivesaft is not a broblem, I have way more experience welding than rebuilding engine.

as for the engine, looks like rodbolts have been opened least once in engines past, so I should brobably get new ones? Or new rods, depending cost.

also bores look good, feel smoooth and I can see honing pattern, no edge on top where highest ring stops, still have to measure them but if they check ok would re honing be good, no need to re bore them?
 
peelo57 said:
I know new rods are overkill for my build but, if those rod would work with those pistons it would be about same money as just kb pistons.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h814cp/overview/

and if i need new rod bolts, it would be cheaper to just buy new rods than machine old.
and new rods are lighter than old ones.
Click to expand...


If you replace the rod bolts, which you should do, you would have to have the rods reconditioned. This will cost about $20 more than new rods, however, the new rods do not have the oil squirt hole for the bores like the original rods do. they claim that you don't need them anymore, but I'm not convinced.

It's your call.


You may want to consider buying a "refresh" kit from Mancini racing. Here's a link and description of what comes in it for $420:


http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/sealpowkitc.html


Product Description

C-KIT Includes:

-Sealed Power Rod bearings

-Sealed Power Main bearings

-Sealed Power Cam Bearings

-Freeze Plugs

-Melling Oil Pump

-Felpro Gasket Set

-Sealed Power Rings (Moly)

-Sterling Pistons (Cast)

PLEASE INCLUDE RING, ROD AND MAIN SIZES IN COMMENT BOX.



This kit includes all crank, rod, cam bearings, oil pump, freeze plugs, complete fel-pro gasket kit, cast pistons and rings. Everything for the short block except rods. A pretty good deal.


Good luck.


Ps. If you use 10.5:1 pistons with 340/360 heads on a 318, your final compression will be 9.2:1 which will work well on pump gas.
 
Got and measured couple of pistons.

Both were down at 0.04'' =1mm
head gasget was 0.04''
valve reliefs are couple cc and stock head is about 68cc, haven't measured that yet.

So my old compression was about 8.4:1

So i am starting to think these pistons are from 69 318 or some aftermarket cheap, bit more compression than stock 1972 318.
i have to measure them soon as i get one out.

If they have compression distance of about 1.74 with kb 1.81 i sould get compression of about 9.5-9.8:1 depends on head gasget.
 
You have some good info on your engine it should help with your build.

Treblig
 
The KB167s that I have, running with '302 heads on 62cc with .039 quench between .011" down from 0 and .028" gaskets, I'm pushing 9.65-9.68:1
 
peelo57 said:
as for the engine, looks like rodbolts have been opened least once in engines past, so I should brobably get new ones? Or new rods, depending cost.
Click to expand...

If the pistons have already been loosened, I would at least change the rod bolts because the originals are getting too close to "maximum stretch". You will then have to have the rods reconditioned after replacing the rod bolts or get new rods. An overstretched bolt will eventually break.

However, the new rods do not have oil squirt holes for the cylinder bores like the original ones did. I like the squirt holes in my rods if I have a choice.

As for the rods/pistons. You can use what ever rods you have, you just have to order the correct pistons for the type of rod you are going to use, press fit or floating. If you are going to get new rods and pistons, pick out which pistons you like best and find out if they are floating or press fit pins, then get rods to match. If you recondition your old rods, get pistons made for that type of rod.
 
So i am 99% sure rods have been opened least once in engines past.
So brobably getting new rods, bit more costly but least i sould be at safe side, and get some weight savings.

if old pistons have compression distance 1.745 or lower KB167 would actually pop bit over deck, like -0.01''
i suspect that block has been milled bit.

Hopefully i get pistons out today or tomorrow so i can confirm pistons compression distance.
 
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