My requirements... what to build?

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j par said:
Simply following all the instructions closely nothing more...
Meaning the band adjustments and pressure adjustments...
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if I just pull the VB and install the kit, I have to adjust the bands and pressures ?
 
318willrun said:
if I just pull the VB and install the kit, I have to adjust the bands and pressures ?
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Yup, easy... 3 screws for the filter and 10 screws for the valve body after you take out the shifter. The rear band is easily reached after the valve body is out and easily adjustable and the front band is adjustable from the outside of the transmission that's easy as well. The pressure adjustment is on the side of the valve body and it's an easy adjustment like flush or something like that... It's read twice adjust once lol...
 
j par said:
Yup, easy... 3 screws for the filter and 10 screws for the valve body after you take out the shifter. The rear band is easily reached after the valve body is out and easily adjustable and the front band is adjustable from the outside of the transmission that's easy as well. The pressure adjustment is on the side of the valve body and it's an easy adjustment like flush or something like that... It's read twice adjust once lol...
Click to expand...
and all what they want a person to adjust is in the directions of the kit ?
 

aj wrote
Now the advantages; With a solid, you can run the next bigger .050 cam, for similar advertised specs, so if you are compression limited, this is a big deal. But for you, flip that statement around; you can run the next smaller cam, have the same .050 specs, but it will run less advertised durations. This can be exploited in the EFFECTIVE compression ratio. aj wrote above
comparing solid and hyd seat durations is tricky
mike jones is one of the few (except the white box grinders who use the SAE method) grinders who gives seat duration as .006 + lash which enables a direct comparison between his solids and hyd (which unfortunatly is singular for Mopars)
For those that do not know SAE measures at .006 AT THE VALVE
Which is the same as .004 at the lifter with a 1.5 rocker-
Like Crane and Summit, Cam Dynamics and a few others
 
GREAT SUGGESTION RUSTY
I'll use my Dakota as an example
When I was towing hevier stuff after I gave Krooser my Ford crew cab duley (first year for EFI 460)
I had a 3.91
I then switched to a 3.54
but I should have gone to a 3.23
as I ended putting taller tires with the 3.54s
I do 300 mile trips and the difference is fealable
Most know that oem's went to gears in the low 2s with 3 speed trans
so my nswer is 3.23 with the OD or 2.73-2.91 with a 3 speed
the Magnum has plenty of poswer with either rear end
and AMEN to the "goes around quick" admonishment
Dakota will swap end with ease, off the road backward one time
did a 360 snap making a left turn across 4 lane highway
that was in the rain but still...
 
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Did you guys all read this?
Mgarrett88 said:
Right now plan is to leave the 904 in the car as well. Pull it, get it rebuild with some new and stronger innards but use it. Currently I do not want to cut the floor up for OD trans. The interior of my car is MINT and I really dont want to take it out. Also I dont do much driving long distance over 60MPH.
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OP doesn't need an overdrive.
But he doesn't want to be screaming down the hiway either.
He has a line on an 8.75 with 2.94s already in it.
As you all know, a 318, working within OP's guidelines will never be lively with those 2.94s.
The 318, I don't care how you build it within OP's guidlines, with 2.94s is not gonna be any fun at all. That makes more cubes the only choice.Those gears, made the "which engine displacement" decision for him.
Now;340s are out, cuz OP said so.
And OP said smallblock.
That leaves the mighty 360/5.9 as the only choice.
A 360/5.9 can easily pull those 2.94s, and only needs a mild TC to be peppy off the line.After that, the ball just rolls downhill;
Pick your rpm of peak power.
Pick your powerband.
Pick your heads.
Set your Dcr. And
slam it together.
If you can figure out how to make your iron-headed engine survive in hi-pressure configuration, then go iron. But I didn't, still don't, and aluminum is just waaay too easy-peasy.

And when my 11/1 aluminum-headed 360 ended up happy with 87E10 at WOT, that was the clincher for me.I was/am sold.
That engine of mine has about 130,000 miles on it now, and has always burned 87E10. I cannot imagine how much money that has saved me. A lil math says maybe up to $8000 since spring of 2000.

Yeah I know; for a couple of hundred, OP can put 3.23s in the back, to run the 318. But you all know how much throttle it takes to spin a pair of 27" tires back there at 32mph, WOT is what it takes, and that is not impressive.
3.55s are out, cuz 65=2870 at zero-slip, but OP doesn't currently have a loc-up, so figure another 5 to 8% and you come up with 65=~3000. And what was OP's opinion on that?
Mgarrett88 said:
I would like to have some fun when I am on the street in town and still be able to take the car at 65mph with out having screaming RPMs.
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So screaming 3.55s are out
Almost screaming 3.23s, I also forsook because 65=~2730@5%slip
2.94s are the logical choice, cuz 65=2374 in loc-up with 27s. And ~5% more without the loc-up, so 2490, and OP gets to leave the A904 in there.
And that's just hi-way cruising!

So; the 360 is the only normally-aspirated,non-stroker,smallblock, that has the potential to solve all the problems, ........ er .... I mean achieve all OP's goals and targets.

With a lil forethought, so could a 340; it doesn't have to be a screamer in this application.
 
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yes but I forgot
hard to rebuid the 904 if you leave it in the car:)
rebuild with some new and stronger inards
Well a a999 ain't new but is a much better base for a rebuild-then swapwith the lock up you get a looser converter with no slip locked up
 
The Op said a lot of stuff but mostly he said he's in the planning stages I'm looking for ideas. The great part about the Forum everybody has their own idea and you can grab them all and formulate your own..
 
One thing I noticed, you recently said you plan to do a disc brake upgrade... if you decide to do that you will basically have no option but to upgrade the car to BBP unless you find a factory Kelsey-Hayes SBP setup which isn't that great tbh.

I put an 8 3/4" in my Duster but only because I found a complete one from a 1967 Coronet for cheap and early B-body rears fit perfectly in Dusters/Demons/Dart Sports. That rear end gave me BBP in the back and I upgraded the front brakes to the '73-up units which gave me BBP in the front. Every A-body SBP 8 3/4" I've seen listed for sale is usually around $1000 or more. Just for a stock 8 3/4"... really not worth it IMO unless you're restoring an original 340 car.
 
aj's cam from post 42
HE2430AL, INT .504" EXH .515", w/1.5 & INT .538" EXH .549" w/1.6, 223 230, 270 276, 110,
4.5 BTC 48 BBC, 38.5 ABC 2 ATC. HE3038AL, INT .515"
270-276 Advertised Duration (at .008" lift) Same as MP & Engle & Racer Brown


lift lobe adv .050 .200
.504" .336" 268° 224° 140° K-56HYD Engle @.008 intake lobe
.520 lift/, ...276 230 @ 0.050, K58HYD, exhaust lobe

desktop dyno 408,single plane intake. 10:1 edelbrocks (IE.249 cfm @ 0.500", 28".) small tubes
Hughes HE2430AL cam:
HP = 401 @ 5,500 RPM
TQ = 427 @ 4,000 RPM
It looks like the HE2430AL would be the Torque cam, and when simulated with the Dual Plane intake, Peak Power and Torque did not change very much, but the torque curve was increased and flatter from idle to max torque.
 
j par said:
The Op said a lot of stuff but mostly he said he's in the planning stages I'm looking for ideas. The great part about the Forum everybody has their own idea and you can grab them all and formulate your own..
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Correct
still in the planning stage that is for sure.
I have at least a year before I make up my mind. All great suggestions and that is why i really love this forum.
I will not be building this on my own so I will soon the on the hunt for a shop or work the a guy i know who build a lot of engines for many applications.
What this is forum is giving me is a lot of the ideas to take and start to discuss my build in the future.
As far as rear end go I dont think i will be going bigger than 3.55 or smaller than 2.94. Gotta be a good driver and have the limited slip diff. I know i can buy a aftermarket diff that works on all of the cases and gears so that is always and option.

AJ you have a ton of knowledge that absolutely amazes me! Great information.
The recipe you laid out may be a winner. I need to figure out if I am going to keep the car numbers. That would solve a lot of my decision issues.

Thank you all for the input. I may have more questions as i get into things thats for sure. This learning and research stage can be exhausting and not to mention my better half is getting upset that i am paying more attention to working on my car than anything else. She said she would just rather have it built so it could be over with and we can have fun!!
 
RustyRatRod said:
You could stroke the 318 and go with a GM 200R4 auto. Nice over drive and you don't have to cut the car to pieces or buy expensive transmission control. That would leave you with the "numbers matching" engine......you did mention that as if it might be a little important.
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Do you need a mounting bracket for this?
i thought i read where you mentioned this in another thread and there was something else that needed to be fabricated.

OD is not out of the realm yet. Just making the hard choice on the 318 or the 360.

I really need to talk to a builder LOL
 
Mgarrett88 said:
Do you need a mounting bracket for this?
i thought i read where you mentioned this in another thread and there was something else that needed to be fabricated.

OD is not out of the realm yet. Just making the hard choice on the 318 or the 360.

I really need to talk to a builder LOL
Click to expand...

There are adapters available of course to mount the transmission to the engine and I believe someone does make a cross member. US Car Tool maybe?
 
u do not need an engine builder to stick a take out 360 magnum with it's efi in
mabey an wireing guy :)
 
Wyrmrider said:
u do not need an engine builder to stick a take out 360 magnum with it's efi in
mabey an wireing guy :)
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Very true. Novice at that too. new computers, EFI additional wiring would all be something very new to me.

However knowing how sometimes i get picky about things, even if i found a 5.9 magnum, i think i would have it tore apart. Not knowing the history on the motor i would want it inspected and possibly a few additional goodies added. I obviously have a lot to think about and a lot to learn.

i dont know if i am any further off than when i posted the original question but the feedback is great.

Rebuild with added goodies on the 318 i currently have
Stoker kit on my 318 i currently have
360/5.9 magnum with the recipe above from AJ

All great ideas that i personally i think i will be happy with for my requirements.

Rear end 8 3/4
Gears up in the air at this point 2.94 to 3.55 nothing more than 3.55
For sure limited slip

Transmision
rebuild my 904 with some heavy duty parts
200R4 to get OD

still have a long way to go .

Glad i have time to think and hone what i want.

its a start
 
I would spend money on gears till u get the rest of the package figured out
just find one clean it up and stick it in
 
Wyrmrider said:
desktop dyno 408,single plane intake. 10:1 edelbrocks (IE.249 cfm @ 0.500", 28".) small tubes
Hughes HE2430AL cam:
HP = 401 @ 5,500 RPM
TQ = 427 @ 4,000 RPM
It looks like the HE2430AL would be the Torque cam, and when simulated with the Dual Plane intake, Peak Power and Torque did not change very much, but the torque curve was increased and flatter from idle to max torque.
Click to expand...
If you have a mind to;
how about that HE2430AL,
in a 367 (4.04x3.58), @ 11/1Scr,
With 1.6 arms(.538/.549 lifts) , in at 108,
Rpm AirGap/750dp/ fresh cold air;
step headers,and 3"pipes all the way.
That's how I ran it, at the end.
 
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Wyrmrider said:
how much would the .008 affect your calcs?
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I think you would know that better than I.
Back in 1999 when I planned this engine out, nobody was talking DCR, and nobody I knew could help me... except the Trigonometry and Algebra I had learned in High-school.
I figured out all about ICA, etc with the little tiny pea-brain God gave me,lol.
What I couldn't figure out was how much actual cylinder pressure, pump gas could take without detonation.
So What I did was back-engineer a few race-winning combos, to see what Dcr/pressure they were running.
Then, I knew they were running best pumpgas, but again, there was no way for me to know if my combo would, so I arbitrarily reduced my pressure target.
but I had figured out that no matter what cam I picked, the unspecified degrees from advertised to actually closed and not leaking, was gonna be a factor. So I arbitrarily increased it up a tad.
Another thing I knew was that the 9.0/9.5 Scr that the machine shops were suggesting I not exceed, was pure BS.
So picked a bigger cam than I really wanted to run and slammed it together at 11.3. And it was a success right from the get-go.
So now I had a psi number that I knew would work.
I sold the 292/292/108 cam, got the cam I had wanted the HE2430AL (270/276/110), reduced the Scr to 10.8(IIRC) to maintain the Cylinder Pressure that I knew would work, and had the most funtastic street-engine I could ever have imagined .... and it burned 87E10 with full timing.

According to the many many numbers you have posted, and I thank you for that, I have learned that;
from advertised to on the seat and not leaking can be anywhere from perhaps as low as ~8*, to as high as ~15*
I measured my 292 and about fell over, but those figures are long-gone; I had not yet heard of FABO, and never gave a thought that someday it might be important.
And as you know, those numbers are really only important to understanding the idle-quality.
And then,
you come along,
And give us mid lift durations, and suddenly the veil is lifted! What I would have given to read those numbers in 1998, during the planning stages. Again; many thanks.

But, I just gotta say that the two Hughes cams I have had, never disappointed.
The 292 either, it just wasn't right for me, never was, but I had to start somewhere to get the Dcr/pressure thing sorted.

Here is a free bit of info I learned to anyone just starting out;
With aluminum heads, and a Tight-Q, I have always run 9.0 to 9.1 Dcr With an .008spec Ica, on 87E10.
Cuz I got lucky and found out it works.
9.1 is NOT the ceiling!
Others here on FABO, are running even more, but on better gas.
I am quite happy running 9.1Dcr on 87E10. That 2430combo was a monster.
Here's a Hughes combo similar to my current engine, with it's HE3038AL cam, same as mine; check out that torque curve!
http://www.hughesengines.com/Upload/TechArticles/land_dyno.jpg

land_dyno.jpg
 
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Mgarrett88 said:
Fun, reliable, durable.

So what is everyones thoughts????

View attachment 1715525013
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You don’t mention any budget. That’s a big variable that’s missing.

300hp to the tire is about 350 at the crank. I would find an LA 360, rebuild it with top quality machine work. I’d use the stock heads. Plug the AIR holes if they have them. Go up to 2.02 intakes, done on a modern seat machine that cuts 5angles. Run a moderate hydraulic cam (I like Comp for overall value but anything with 225* at .050 will work. A decent 4bbl intake and a Thunder AVS. It will exceed that number fairly cheaply. Have your transmission rebuilt. Don’t buy a TCI.
Run 3.23 gears.

It’s not a new car. It will rev more than your Honda on the highway at speed. That’s not a problem or “bad”, and as long as the package is matched and tuned right mileage will not suffer.
 
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