Now thats just wrong

[moparmat2000]

OK Guys, this is easy.

Ever heard of NMVTIS?

There's a difference between "salvage" and "junk".

Salvage=rebuilder in most states.
Junk=Junk, never to be on the road again, in most states. This is a one-way street unless your state lets you build "customs", in which case they're going to want to know why that E-body should be a custom, and not an E-body with a suspiciously missing VIN.

Think you'll haul it across a state line or send the title to a buddy across the country for a title-washin'? (This is illegal, btw.)

Noooooooooo no no no no no not if your state is one of the participating National Motor Vehicle Title Information System states.

View attachment 1715047280

This is an old map (2012). Green state, you're screwed. Try getting a lawyer. Yellow state, you might get away with it. Grey state, get while the get'n is good.

And that's IF your state has lax title laws to begin with. Most the grey and yellow took their time enrolling in NMVTIS because their title laws were bitches already.

My Ram is in this boat. Junked due to flood in Colorado (All flood damaged cars are junked, no flipping). Brought it home to Missouri and slept on the title. Now Missouri can see it's junk in CO, so it's junk in MO too.

I got on the NMVTIS website and asked the question. I also perused their database on the website. It seems its aimed at curbing late model auto theft by swapping vins off wrecks, and then stealing identical cars and swapping paperwork and vins to launder them, or to prevent flood damaged vehicles from being cleaned up and sold to unsuspecting people, stuff like that. When i get my response i will reply,

however what little info i did find relevant to our hobby was this. That a junk marked vehicle can resold according to this, however it will still have that black mark on it that it was previously junked. Not sure if it can be retitled after that, but it does state that a NMVTIS reporting entity must distinguish between what it will sell to rebuild, and what it will concider as scrap. I specifically asked questions in my letter geared towards classic and antique autos, that could theoretically be removed from salvage facilities and rebuilt into safe and compliant motor vehicles by car enthusiasts.

I would imagine most people buying these old vehicles if the title shows prev junked would prob understand this as they are now hitting 50 years old or older in some cases. So you buy the vehicle, take pix of its condition and pix of the work done to the vehicle, so the next owner can see what has been done to repair or restore the car. See below excerpt from NMVTIS website.

 

[barbee6043]

too much govn't intervention, too many tree huggers, too many stupid people waiting to get took! ha

 

[Moparman1806]

I got on the NMVTIS website and asked the question. I also perused their database on the website. It seems its aimed at curbing late model auto theft by swapping vins off wrecks, and then stealing identical cars and swapping paperwork and vins to launder them, or to prevent flood damaged vehicles from being cleaned up and sold to unsuspecting people, stuff like that. When i get my response i will reply,

however what little info i did find relevant to our hobby was this. That a junk marked vehicle can resold according to this, however it will still have that black mark on it that it was previously junked. Not sure if it can be retitled after that, but it does state that a NMVTIS reporting entity must distinguish between what it will sell to rebuild, and what it will concider as scrap. I specifically asked questions in my letter geared towards classic and antique autos, that could theoretically be removed from salvage facilities and rebuilt into safe and compliant motor vehicles by car enthusiasts.

I would imagine most people buying these old vehicles if the title shows prev junked would prob understand this as they are now hitting 50 years old or older in some cases. So you buy the vehicle, take pix of its condition and pix of the work done to the vehicle, so the next owner can see what has been done to repair or restore the car. See below excerpt from NMVTIS website.

View attachment 1715047380

If the title is still held by the person in possession of the vehicle, and is listed as a salvage title- not certificate of destruction, it can be retitled as a reconstructed car with a branded title. I worked for one of the largest dealers/ rebuilders of such vehicles. There is much paperwork involved along with proof of receipts of parts, vin numbers of cars parts came from,pictures, notary work, etc to get it done. If it is listed as certificate of destruction or parts only, you are out of luck. Florida is is of the worst with these. You can have a title search done if you go through DMV or if you are friends with a state police officer that can run one.
In PA one of the biggest reasons for this was there were people clipping cars with pop rivets, screws, all sorts of structural stuff missing. There are some good and bad points of the legislation, but we have to live with it.

 

[moparmat2000]

Still, i posed the question to NMVTIS about classic or antique cars that people may want to haul back out of a salvage yard as a project. Can it be done? Is there a provision for this? If so, how can a hobbiest go about doing this? Might as well go right to the source and ask them rather than speculate. I read reams and reams of information in legalese jargon off their website. It was making me want to fall asleep. Now of course with that much information a hobbiest loophole may be missed, and of course i am sure most people dont want to read into it. Too much to read. So they get a few pages in, and close the gate on it, saying its a done deal. So i'm gonna sit and wait for my answer from the NMVTIS about weather or not this is a done deal.

 

[moparmat2000]

NMVTIS response. Basically they do not deal with title issues or reissuing titles. They are just a database that "marks" the vin number status. So if your project car was at one time flood, stolen, junk, or salvage, it will state flood, stolen, junk, or salvage flagged w that vin.

According to what the NMVTIS sent me, its up to the individual states laws regarding how to legally handle putting a vehicle from junk/salvage back on the road, or even if you can even legally do it in your state. This is where state laws apply to junk/salvage titles.

Personally if i was buying a restored 50 year old car that was flagged junk/salvage on the title, and i looked over the vehicle with a fine toothed comb and it was restored well, i wouldent give a rats *** about the junk/salvage flag on the title. At 50 years old, theres enough years under its wheels, it may possibly at one time been in a salvage yard.

This all being said i am going to contact my state motor vehicle agency and pose the question to them as well. This will give an answer for my state. Contact your own state agency for a more concrete answer.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

Several states were non titled states before certain years. most were around 1985. The man that owns that salvage yard in AL. is Ted Stephens, the guy is a real tool (to put it nicely). The reason he won't sell complete cars is the simple reason that he can rape the buying public for a piece of the car at a time and in the end make a fortune. I promise you what ever you need, he has it. I also promise you that no where else in the world will you pay more money for that part than from him. About 15 years ago he wanted to charge me $3500.00 for a 1966 Polara body rear clip!!! He runs up to every vendor as they pull through the gates, and will buy a 1968 Dart 340/727 driveshaft from (me in this case) and put it in his inventory at $500.00! He will hang out at your trailer, with his girl friend, now wife, eat all your food, drink all you cokes, beer or whatever, pretend to be your friend, then turn around and break it off in your ***. He sold a pair of 70 Cuda fenders to someone I know that were rusted out junk for $900.00! Ea.! He holds that mystique over people. But I really can't understand it.

 

[moparmat2000]

I know of a couple guys like that. Their stuff is worth gold but anybody elses stuff aint worth spit. Yeah theres some stuff on those cars not repopped but most of it now is, making those cars now mostly project cars. Again i say, why would somebody want a rusty A/B/E rear quarter or floor pan when AMD makes that stuff new. From what i understand the AMD stuff fits really good out of the box too.

$500 for a dart 340 driveshaft!!! And he prob bought it from you cheap too. I can see making money, but practically stealing it from you on the cheap, then asking $500 for it!!! Come on!!! For that price id have my driveline shop build me one with a brand new tube, and still come out cheaper.

I guess i wont be buying anything from there. It sounds like he is into it for the money, and not the love of the vehicles, otherwise he would concider selling some as project cars. He could make money that way too supplying the parts needed to the person who buys a project car from him. SGBARRACUDA thanks for the heads up. He sounds like a "tool" to me.

So what exactly is alabamas law on the books in regards to retitling junk cars anyways now that we know NMVTIS has no jurisdiction over individual state title laws? NMVTIS in their reply also stated that you can "purchase" the information on a vehicles title. This means its flagged in their database but may not be flagged on the actual paper title depending on the state that issues the title. You might only know if you buy their report on that vehicle. Just like carfax, but gubmint run.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

I sold it for 100.00. Oh and also, he is one of the largest AMD dealers in the south east! So he will get ya there too!

 

[moparmat2000]

I sold it for 100.00. Oh and also, he is one of the largest AMD dealers in the south east! So he will get ya there too!

$100 is not a bad price. If he sandblasted it, painted it, pressed in new u joints and asked $200-$250, ready to go that wouldent be unreasonable i think. But $500. I bet it was still rust covered and not rebuilt either.

 

[moparmat2000]

Note t OP: R and R Salvage, Aurora Mo and Ron Slobe used to be the largest Mopar bone yard in the country. Ron passed quite a few years back, and the yard went away, BUT Ron had his salvage yard and always had some project cars sitting up front for sale.
Al. does not keep up with titles on older vehicles. SO you can imagine the bs of car " tourists" going to Stephens and seeing a project they want and Ted having to deal with the sale of said car less title! maybe Al. has a law where a salvage business can not legally sell these bone cars? don't know.
we restore cars now days ( mostly stuff like roadrunners, E bodies, Chargers that not that many years back were NOT even considered pats cars! ha.....

so I guess some people see all these cars on Ted s place, ( didn't know he let the public in there?), see an ie. 69 roadrunner roller that looks pretty solid and straight ( yea!??? Ha), and is totally irritated that Ted did not set it aside to offer as project t for said person for a "good" price, less title???s we hobbiest like to think we can save every old Mopar, but we can not! and there are still TONS of parts not repped or so poorly done ( Shermans?) that you are better off fabing your own stuff!? so I am glad there are a few people like Ted ( Stephens) that have their business, even if I personally can not afford their prices and shipping!

If Alabama doesnt keep up with titles on old cars whats wrong with a bill of sale. I have bought both of my cudas with these. Jumped through the hoops to get legal Texas titles. Yeah sure i had to get bonds on the cars for a 3 year period on each vehicle. So what. Point is when the bond time ran its course, the bonded designation is then removed from the title, and at that point nobody can show up with an old falling apart title from their grandpappy or whoever else the relative was and contest my ownership of the vehicles. My point is, there is always a way. Thats unless the person who has the vehicles will not sell them. At that point when they pass away, you got to be in the right place at the right time, do your best Monty Hall impression, and play lets make a deal.

 

[SGBARRACUDA]

I just went thru this with a 69 Chevy PU I bought out of Georgia which was a non title state before 1985. I had to get proof of ownership from the man that sold it to me which amounted to a Tag registration in his name. That and a Bill of Sale, along with a statement from the Ga. highway patrol that state the officer verified the VIN number. I was then able to get a Fl. title in my name

 

[moparmat2000]

I just went thru this with a 69 Chevy PU I bought out of Georgia which was a non title state before 1985. I had to get proof of ownership from the man that sold it to me which amounted to a Tag registration in his name. That and a Bill of Sale, along with a statement from the Ga. highway patrol that state the officer verified the VIN number. I was then able to get a Fl. title in my name

Sounds easy enough to me.

In texas all they require is a bill of sale, and either a photo of the vin or a pencil tracing of the vin.

After that they run the vin in the database to check for stolen or a leinholder, then send you to get a bond on the vehicle. Then back to motor vehicle to apply for a title.

2 weeks later your new title arrives and upper RH corner it says "bonded" on it.

After 3 years of the date of title issuance, the bond is automatically removed by the state. You can do 1 of 3 things.

1. You may either keep the title you currently have since the state has electronically removed the bond anyways.

2. Order a new title copy for $25 and it comes from Austin with the word "bonded" removed.

3. Ask your local DMV for a title copy for your "lost" title. They will run your information and print you up a new copy right there for $5. Just shred the bonded labeled copy after you get your new unlabeled copy.

My recommendation is store the car in the condition its in as is, and just start rat packing parts for it until the bond expires. Then start working on it after that.

 

[barbee6043]

moved from Missouri last fall. I now live in Tx..... I have a Tx car that needs a title. easiest way for me is to take bill of sale to Mo. DMV next time there. that is all I need for title. to be safe, make the address of seller Ga. ( my old home state).... get Mo antique tags. if I apply for MO title transferred to a Tx title they charge $90 just for that plus title trans fer feees! Mo is a lot less tedious on titles on these OLD cars now. that's good.
I have gotten titles on many cars out of yards, individuals, etc with bill of sale only, but Missouri has never been that bad on titles.....
deal is, mom and pop yards can sell you a car, maybe the big yards NOW have more paperwork involved or that keeps them from selling whole cars once they tell the state it is a salvage car!? don't know.....

 

[moparmat2000]

Thats good that you got the Missouri title option. I dont have it, but i know how to do Texas bill of sales into titles, and done a few Texas green salvage titles into blue Texas titles too. To some folks a missing title is a deal breaker. And in some states it can be. However "there is always a way".

 

[kowalski440]

Illinois won't sell complete cars or if the yard either. The one my dad works at will Tralee some of the better cars and set them up front of the building and sell them. But those never enter the yard and don't get fully processed. Sucks cause they had (might still have) a Mitsubishi 3000gt and the body still looked good. I was so disappointed when I was told I couldn't buy it. One of my all time favorite cars

What's Tralee?

 

[moparmat2000]

What's Tralee?

I think he meant to say take, but hit multiple keys and didnt spell check.

 

[barbee6043]

NO title most always means cheaper PRICE!!!!!! no problem...

 

[moparmat2000]

Yessir. Lots of folks no title is a TURN OFF!!! Gets the seller to dropping the price. Sure the first time you got to hoop jump with what your state wants, its a bit daunting. But after that, you know the ropes, forms, and where you have to go for it all. After that, it becomes "old hat".

I do however ask the seller if they dont have a title. I ask them what they know of the vehicles past owner history. I tell them i will need a written bill of sale. I ask them if i can give them an in writing refundable deposit if i'm serious. I also ask them if i can run the vin thru the state database to check for theft or a leinholder. If they have nothing to hide they will let you do that because all your trying to do is C.Y.A.

Heres the other thing. If the vehicle has been sitting so long on the owners property that it was registered last when the state held those records in paper, then its probably been purged from the states database when everything upgraded to digital record keeping. So checking the vin on something thats been sitting 30 plus years may not yield anything.

This is why its good to pay an insurance company a couple hundred dollars bond the title. You may have pulled that old car out from behind a barn, checked the numbers, done the bill of sale thing, gotten a title yackity smackity. Then somebody going thru their dead grandpas old things finds a title to a vehicle, and checks with motor vehicle. Now that you have gotten a title, that vehicle number is now loaded back into the system. They may now want the car back. And that is their legal right. At least for the number of years the state requires the bond to be on the title it is.

This is why i say do the leg work. And definitely get a bonded title. Then start collecting up your parts, build up a killer engine for it, etc. but dont do a damn thing to the car, or store anything in it that didnt come with it when you got it. Maybe toss a cover over it to protect it from further deterioration. If you have a place out of the weather to keep it thats fine too. But do not start repairing it or putting ANY parts on it until the bond runs out.

If this happens and "Joe Schmuckatelli" comes looking for gramps old mopar with illusions of grandeur. Since nowadays everybody thinks all old mopars are worth gold. He will find a broken rusty piece of **** typically missing a bunch of parts. Anything you bought for it doesnt legally belong to it if you have not put the parts on it yet.

Usually ole Joe Schmuckatelli will leave you with the "junk car" and take the bond money instead. If they take the bond money then they are surrendering their right to the vehicle. With a bond they effectively can have one or the other. Not both.

 

[barbee6043]

moparmat2000 does have a good point. anything is possible.

 

[moparmat2000]

moparmat2000 does have a good point. anything is possible.

Remember, always cover your ***. It may cost you a little bit more up front. For me it was $200 per car for an insurance bond, and you dont get that money back when the waiting period is over. What you do get is piece of mind, and it will save you a world of grief later if you do.

The bonds have since run out on the barracudas I have. The 3 year statute of limitations are now past for anybody who was connected to them to either claim the vehicles or the bonds tied to them. Now if anybody comes forward with an old title on either vehicle, its too late for them, theyre outta time.