Ok so lets really talk K-members here Folks

-
HemiDenny said:
Why do you think RMS (or me as far as that goes) uses Mustang II (FRONT STEER) spindles...do you think its because we want the price high??...no..its because the stock steering is REAR steer and the stock spindles are engineered for REAR steer....and just because a bracket(I don't care how many shear it is) is made to bolt eveything up it doesn't change that fact.....oh yea..$700.00 extra for better tubing???...whats with that!!
Click to expand...


I can't speak for bill at RMS but I do believe he uses the mustang II for geometry reasons plus the fact that there are so many aftermarket brake set UPS on the market for them.
 
I want a strong one, so which ever is stronger is the way to go for me.
 
OOOOKKKKK.....glad you cleared that up....please.... just don't tell my fabricator/welder...he'll want a big raise
 
So Denny just because I'm curious here what design changes do the spindles go through to make them front steer? Is the ball joint location different? Is the steering inclination different? You admitted that Bill cuts and rewelds his spindles does that mean that he disreguarded the FORD designed akerman and designed his own? I have a hard time believing that with a properly thought out and designed system you can't possibly use a factory designed spindle with a reversed steering arm.
 
HemiDenny said:
OOOOKKKKK.....glad you cleared that up....please.... just don't tell my fabricator/welder...he'll want a big raise
Click to expand...
So your telling me that Mig welding and Tig welding can be done in the same amount of time? Guess everyone that has actually welded with both can back me up when I say I can mig weld something in half the time a guy can properly tig something.
 
abodyjoe said:
I can't speak for bill at RMS but I do believe he uses the mustang II for geometry reasons plus the fact that there are so many aftermarket brake set UPS on the market for them.
Click to expand...
And Joe I believe you are correct with the common brake kits being a big factor and I'd bet he didn't want to design his own and pay for casting them up so he went with something he knew worked. I don't blame him at all for using the mustang 2 spindle it's very available and an affordable spindle.
 
And I didn't design this kit I am just relaying information for Tory because I like what I see and plan to use one in my car. I am helping him get the word out Just like I would have for anyone else that had a solid product that I was going to use.
 
Joe..the mustang II spindles are engieered for front steer ...the fact that they also afford the ability to use a number of aftermarket..cost competitive(where have I heard that before)brake packages is an added plus
 
john..I realize it costs more...$700 extra????...just seems a little pricey to me,
 
Correct me if i am wrong, but DOM will "flex" a bit more than chrome moly? Anotherwords, chrome moly, while it is stronger, will shatter where dom will flex.
 
John...sorry I overlooked your post regarding design....look at the locaton of the lower ball joint/outer tie rod mount of Tshells then look at a mustang II (or any other front steer spindle....look at the last few pages of my A bodiies..big motor post(welcome wagon)...there is a good picture of the mustang spindle...see where the inner tie rod mount is in relation to the lower balljoint...and Mustang spindles probably have closer to a "neutral" ackerman....what you are trying to accomplish is admirable...But spending $1900 or $2600 on something that doesn't work properly....well ..lets just say I tried to warn you....i'll be more than happy to discuss this with you in depth..e-mail me and i'll give you my # if you don't already have it
 
It really doesn't matter what you price something at, demand and supply will always dictate the selling price. At the end of the day the manufacturer needs to make a large enough profit to stay in business and to want to continue.
There are much fewer Mopars than other brands being rodded,hence less demands, greater price.
If I can sell something at a much greater profit you better believe I will
The market will dictate the price always
By the way I own both an alterktion front and rear lynx suspension, could I build and design my own probably do....... I want to or have the time to do so, no
Good luck on your k member in a few years when many people are driving, racing them will revisite this post, until then its all talk and bs
Dodge29
 






A couple quick video's Tory did today He says he is sorry for the quality but he just threw these together.
 
So Denny you are saying that using a Mustang 2 spindle would address this or just changing the relationship to the ball joint
 
inkjunkie said:
Correct me if i am wrong, but DOM will "flex" a bit more than chrome moly? Anotherwords, chrome moly, while it is stronger, will shatter where dom will flex.
Click to expand...

Actually Moly tubing has more "flex" which is why it resists cracking A drag car will more then likely be built of moly because of that.
 
johnparts said:
Derek I just got off the phone with Tory and we talked price a bit. I'm going to throw a number out there and I want to here if you all think this is heading in the right direction or not.
ok this is just speculation but it is a good guestimate of what the full system will run. There are 2 options here one is for 1 5/8 .083 mainsection with everything needed minus your spindles and brakes. Around $2600.00

The other option is 1 5/8 .120 DOM tubing again with all the bells and whistles for around $1900.00

Both include coils overs, upper and lower moly control arms, steering arms, manual rack with tie rod ends, and the k-member.

If this sounds fair let me know.
Click to expand...


wow you go out for dinner and some drinks and you miss a page or so of comments.... johnsparts: You wanted my opinion so here it is. $2600 and you have to use your stock spindles and brakes???

Guessing at a cost break down of the $2600
K-frame - $1100
manual rack with tie rod ends $ 300 (Pulled from Summit racing website)
uppers arms - $ 300 (used same estimates I posted for RMS breakdown)
lower arms - $300 (used same estimates I posted for RMS breakdown)
steering arms - $200 (guessing at price) I'm guessing these bolt to your stock spindles to make them from steer
Coil overs - $400 (Pulled from Summit racing website)

IMO - Still a far cry away from the $400 - $500 mustang costs of the original post, buts overall cost is still lower than the industry leader with RMS.

so Johnsparts: My thought is this: Is the overall package cheaper, YES -- But is the bare k-frame anywhere close to the $400 - $500 that your original post was all about, NO ---- So yes its more in the direction of your original post, but still fails to meet the criteria in which your original post was started with.
 
love to see debates like this. They are so beneficial with all the knowledge, ideas, and opinions coming out of everyones heads. Keep this going
 
Again I never said it was going to be 400 Bucks someone else had posted this somewhere along the way. I stated that this can be done for cheaper. And it's not a matter of having to use your stock spindles it's the ability to that I like.
 
And actually along the way from when I posted this originally I became a firm believer in Tory's parts. You can ask Hemidenny I had been talking to several people about making my k-member including him. So when I first posted this I had no intentions of turning this into a Tory's k-member thread. Just kind of went that why after talking to him several times.
 
johnparts said:
Again I never said it was going to be 400 Bucks someone else had posted this somewhere along the way. I stated that this can be done for cheaper. And it's not a matter of having to use your stock spindles it's the ability to that I like.
Click to expand...

john sorry to make it sound like you said it would $400 your correct you didn't -- I meant to reference your posts of I think it was (3) mustang options that ranged in the $400 - $600 range.

I agree with you that I like the idea of a aftermarket k - frame that allows the use of the stock parts, but one of the advantages of going to the aftermarket is to run a rack. With the rack you need front steer. By moving the steering to the front this is what opens up the room for a bigger oil pan and better headers, this biggest reason for an aftermarket K.

So $1100 of this k-frame (bare) isn't much of a difference than a Magnumforce, CAP, or RMS bare K-frame. $200-$400 bucks on a bare k-frame is only the difference between low to no overhead cost versus larger overhead cost. Its not a large enough percentage to say we are being gouged.

But YES this is a step in the direction of a cheaper system and is getting the social group of buyers talking.
 
john,...here is the challange.....in order to get street driveable ackerman...the lower ball joint needs to be inside the outer tie rod attachment...I did it in '95 when I built my first r/p in a stock K frame using stock spindles ect...I modified the steering arm to be outside the LBJ placing it between the inner rim and the brake drum...then I incorporated a drag link to place the inner tie rod end to eliminte bump steer...long story short.... it's cheaper to buy spindles designed for the application than all the modifying required to make it work RIGHT
 
HemiDenny said:
john,...here is the challange.....in order to get street driveable ackerman...the lower ball joint needs to be inside the outer tie rod attachment...I did it in '95 when I built my first r/p in a stock K frame using stock spindles ect...I modified the steering arm to be outside the LBJ placing it between the inner rim and the brake drum...then I incorporated a drag link to place the inner tie rod end to eliminte bump steer...long story short.... it's cheaper to buy spindles designed for the application than all the modifying required to make it work RIGHT
Click to expand...
I'll take that. So your saying the Akerman causes the inner tire and out tires to basically turn different amounts when cornering and moving the outboard steering point outside the plane of the ball joint this reduces that tendency?
 
FYI...in '70-'71 (40 years ago)..when the Motown Missle was constructed the boys at Chrysler placed a r/p in the K-frame where the stabalizer bar would be..used stock spindles,a-rms ect...they simply used a small disc brake and heated/bent the longest LBJ/steering arm they could find...Sox,Hill,Mopar Missle Duster,ect..all did the same thing..worked OK for drag racing...they didn't have to turn much and they kept the suspension so limited in travel that bumpsteer wasn't a big issue.....this isn't exactly new...maybe just forgotten
 
Bingo!!!...next grasshopper, I will teach you to grab pebble from hand....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top