I am afraid. I am very afraid. Engines can go south when they are rebuilt with non exploded parts. This engine will be trouble. Just sayin'
Pieces of steel in cylinder??
- Thread starter Righty Tighty
- Start date
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I agree. Even among all the ****** sizing.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
No. Unless the bearing shell spun inside the connecting rod. If the little tabs on the bearing shell are still there, you're good to go.
The X heads might have too much flow for a stock 318 rebuild. I'm sure others on this site have personal knowledge about this. 340 springs have higher pressures than 318 springs and are only necessary when you use a bigger cam. X heads would not have hardened seats. There are better heads out there for your engine with hardened seats.
"off topic" ? ----hell no -----
I'm hearing a lot of hate and discontent about the engine machinist and his decision making vs
personal opinions of keyboard typists. Should he ask the customer if he wants to spend $25 to clean the rods? Or $50 too check for straightness? Or $50 to set up a dial bore gauge and check the rod bearing diameter? Time is money when you're in business. And the fixed costs per hour are the same whether you're working for money or doing favors.
personal opinions of keyboard typists. Should he ask the customer if he wants to spend $25 to clean the rods? Or $50 too check for straightness? Or $50 to set up a dial bore gauge and check the rod bearing diameter? Time is money when you're in business. And the fixed costs per hour are the same whether you're working for money or doing favors.
AJ/FormS
68 Formua-S fastback clone 367/A833/GVod/3.55s
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the two times I put X-heads on a smogger-teen, with a 340 cam, that low-compression 318 turned into a sleepy marshmallow, and didn't wake up until waaay up in the rpm band. I never tried just the heads. But I don't think the heads were the issue, cuz as far as I could tell, the chambers looked very similar.
Somewhere around 4500, this combo began to wake up, but with 2.94s this was too far up the mph scale to be useful to me. This combo was hungry for more stall and much more gear.
A 2800TC helped get her off the line, as did the 3.23s I installed (because I had them), but it wasn't near enough.Honestly the cylinder pressure was just too low.
I still have that engine, now with it's 318 cam/top end back on, and the 2800, and an A999, and 4.30s really woke her up, but she normally runs 3.55s.
We did put some better springs on her tho, and headers, and a TQ, and she revs sweetly to 5000.
Somewhere around 4500, this combo began to wake up, but with 2.94s this was too far up the mph scale to be useful to me. This combo was hungry for more stall and much more gear.
A 2800TC helped get her off the line, as did the 3.23s I installed (because I had them), but it wasn't near enough.Honestly the cylinder pressure was just too low.
I still have that engine, now with it's 318 cam/top end back on, and the 2800, and an A999, and 4.30s really woke her up, but she normally runs 3.55s.
We did put some better springs on her tho, and headers, and a TQ, and she revs sweetly to 5000.
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I never had my rods checked for geometry, but I did have them checked for trigonometry. The machinist made me cosine the contract and then went off on a tangent.
X heads are fine on a 318...
I ran a 318 with 360 heads and 2.02" intakes for many years with no problems...
I ran a 318 with 360 heads and 10.5 compression pistons and a stock 340 cam with rhoades lifters... The larger chamber in the 360 head brought my compression down to 9.2 which was perfect... that combo with a 2.76 gear ran great and got 17.75 MPG highway... Idled at 22.5" vacuum... No need for higher stall converter or gear....
I would recommend replacing the valve springs... You need to match the springs to the cam that you select so you don't get valve float or too much pressure and wear out the lobes...
Have hardened seats put in for the exhaust valve seats...
Now that combination would work. 10.5 pistons and the big open chambered heads, 340 cam with those Rhoads lifters to tone it down.
You should have them check the diameter of the crank journal bore to see if it's still round... That will also tell if the cap has sprung and spread on the ones that the metal parts were hitting the pistons...
Be careful not to keep torquing the rod bolts... After 5 torques, I would recommend replacing the rod bolts with new ones...
If you have the rod bolts replaced, then have the machine shop recondition the crank bores with them... The new bolts may locate the rod cap differently and cause a mis match in the bores... If they recondition the rods after installing the new bolts, then the crank bore will be true and the bolts will be fresh... Keep in mind that it will take a minimum of two clamp cycles to plastic gauge and then install the piston and rod assembly to the engine... You will have 3 clamp cycles on them right off the bat - one for re-machining the rod and cap, one for plastic gauging, then one for final assembly...
If you torque the rod bolts too many times, they can get over stretched and weaken them where they will eventually fatigue and break... When the rod bolt breaks, the rod usually ends up putting a large hole in the block and then it's garbage...
If the engine was already rebuilt before you got it and they plastic gauged the bearings, the bolts in the rods that you have will already have a minimum of 5 clamp cycles on them and should be replaced...
I needed the larger combustion chambers of the 340/360 heads with those pistons as with the stock 318 heads the compression was too high and was causing a pre-ignition flame front over 80° F and the engine would over heat within 20 minutes with that much compression... It idled at 24" vacuum with the 318 heads and dropped to 22.5" vacuum with the 360 heads...
With the larger heads that combo ran 400,000 miles on my daily driver on that engine... I used 1.88" intakes for the first build, then went to 2.02" valves after the second refresh... No problem with either valve combo...
Because the valve seat got in the cylinder and beat the crap out of the piston... Then the main bearings got wiped out and the oil holes to the cam and lifters got plugged with bearing material and starved the top end for oil...
You have to identify the root cause of the failure and the subsequent damage to get it fixed properly...
I would never run a straightened rod... They are more prone to fatigue and break after you bend them...
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I could have said check the big ends for out of round, taper and bell mouth. It takes more words.
Again, IMHO, it's the machine shops fiduciary responsibility to protect the customer from what he doesn't know. Part of the process of this hobby or profession as I view it is to provide continual education to the customer. If you ain't doing that, you are failing the customer.
Check everything. Always.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
I get that kk. My point is even Ray Charles, who is not only blind but dead, could see the engine ATE something. If all that was brought to me was the rods and Pistons it wouldn't matter to me if a seat fell out, a bolt got swallowed, or some MORON was setting his 1/2 wrench on his flying toilet and 20 minutes later, jumps in the car and pushes the throttle. Said wrench then went through the engine, beat up two cylinders on both banks, and caused said MORON to pull the heads, weld them up, replace a bunch of seats, guides and valves and then swallow his pride.
If you brought in the rods and Pistons AND the heads...that's a different discussion.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
About 75% of all remand sbc's of most any machine shop had the rods untwisted or straightened...the rest bought better rods.
It's all slight... but they are still.
Trust me when I say that I wish you knew what you were talking about just as much you wish you knew what you were talking about. Mopars dont really have that issue... maybe why you dont know =limited experience.
I dont know half the **** a lifelong machinist knows, but I'm honest in my experience.
I have done rods, i have run a line hone, ran a mill, did seats, ck-10 honing cylinders,guides and few other things. I have not only worked on mopars, I have worked on all other makes. My knowledge isn't limited to one.
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I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and not think you were directly calling me a sad asswipe. Anyway, I'm still shopping around for a good shop that I feel like I can be loyal to, but that will take time. This first shop I found, let's just say there was a little bit of a language barrier. Really nice guy and I'm happy with the work he did, but for someone with lots of questions like me, I think I need to find a machinist who can converse with me a little more fluently in order to better understand my situation.
I read that initially, but I also don't have a completely stock build. I've got headers, and with this rebuild, I'll be adding a 4bbl 600 cfm carb, larger intake, and higher flow air cleaner. I'll be sticking with a mild cam when I replace the current one. I was thinking with those components, the X heads would be okay. That being said, I would really love some nice new aluminum heads, but gosh DANG they ain't cheap....!! I'm eager to figure out what my CR is once all is said and done.
I know what I'm talking about... I worked in an engine factory that made 8 million engines under my watch there...
How many engines have you made???
You need to stop insulting people and calling them names...
nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
This is what is bothering me.....loss of oil pressure would not seem to be the cause of the troughs. As said, look at everything up through the oil into the rockers. I am suspicious of something coming down from the rockers, or the valvetrain being jammed. We don't know if a PO had some retainer to guide clearance issues, messed up the cam bearings, threw in some straight pushrods and/or another cam, and sold it.
Yes 'evenly' is a word! LOL
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
The same brand engines, that's the point.
Btw under your watch, foreman. You watched. I have machined and assembled a lot of motor, ported the heads... how many have you personally machined and assembled? Every engineer I have met always comes off holier than thou, you dont disappoint.
A machine shop see's a ton more than an assembly line of one motor company. Repairs ,modifications...so many variables unique to the designs from the manufacturer. How you don't accept any truth is amazing. You ignore all fact. You dont know ****...so
do me a favor and dont even address me anymore. Tired of your lame ****. waste of my time.
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nm9stheham
Well-Known Member
OP, can you remind us what pistons you have now? Did I see where you have had them pressed on the rods already? The 318's have the problem of low CR to start, and you are making that lower with 360 heads. Refer to the 1st paragraph of where you are heading in post #333. Not a good grocery-getter CR..... it is going to be low if this is the combination it sounds like. Get some piston info out here so we can compute that CR.
BTW, take your cam and oil the cam bearings in the block and the cam journals, and carefully slip the cam in place. See if it goes in easily, and rotates easily. Just looking for cam bearings being mis-aligned, or anything warped in the block. Check all the cam bearing holes being aligned with the holes in the block, including the ones on the #2 and #4 cam bearing going upwards.
No not a foreman, an engineer....
I had to make sure that all parts were made to spec and all machines ran to the specs... I certified the machines and parts that they made before they were installed and allowed to run to make sure that they were within spec and capable of maintaining production... Then certifying that all gauges to check the machining were accurate and repeatable for every operation down the line... Two block machining lines, three head machining lines, one head assembly line, and a complete engine assembly line...
I was called when there were problems and had to root cause and determine what caused the problem and get it fixed ASAP... I had the authority to make the call with the quality manager to shut the production down after verifying with design engineering...
It's easy to build only one engine at a time... Try running them down a line with each operator having only 23 seconds to do their job and keep enough engines coming off the assembly line to support two assembly plants and not shut them down... Now that's a challenge...
Finger f*cking one engine at a time in a shop or garage is easy...
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