Power from Taillight is wired to fuel sending unit... Check!

-
sazzlefrats

sazzlefrats

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
239
Reaction score
4
Location
Pleasanton, CA
I have a 65 Dart, its got a 74 power wagon steering wheel (and the same wiring harness).

I'm going to begin splicing this stuff together. My first thought was to see what does and what does not work.

So right now I have:

Wiper motor works great
Fan works great
Headlights, just headlights, no taillights.

My meter tells me that my fuses all have continuity. By the drivers kick panel I have a plug that has 5 wires going in, and 5 wires going out. This is the harness to the back of the car.

Black Wire - Ground?
Purple Wire - Brakes?
Green Wire - Turn Signal?
Brown Wire - Turn Signal?

Dull Blue/Grey Wire - This wire goes to the fuel sending unit, but it gets power when I turn on the headlights, I'm assuming the issue is in the dash wireing harness or maybe in the engine bay. Anyone have ideas on where someone likely would have miswired this?

Also... does anyone have wiring diagrams for a 65 dart? or a 74 dodge pickup truck for that matter?

I just got started on this project.
 
All I have electronically is 1964. My 65 diagrams are in the manual. I know the dash cluster pinout is different, having gone thru that recently. Otherwise should be fairly similar, especially the body wiring. The 65 bulkhead connector is unique, in that the big wires go thru special buss-bars, which keeps the terminals from melting like in other years (exc. 1963). The wiper terminals vary, but true even in the same year.
 

Attachments

  • 64 Plymouth wiring.jpg
    101.1 KB · Views: 261
  • 64 Valiant Body Wiring.jpg
    148.7 KB · Views: 273
  • 64 Valiant dash wiring.jpg
    129.2 KB · Views: 270
  • 64Dart Engine Wiring 1.jpg
    67.4 KB · Views: 267
  • 64Dart Engine Wiring 2.jpg
    134.9 KB · Views: 250
  • 64 wiper switch wiring.jpg
    47.4 KB · Views: 268
There is no ground wire in the kick panel connector!!!!

Here's the thing............you say you have a 74 "wheel" and "the same" wiring harness. I doubt that you WANT to use a 64/5 wiring diagram!!!

Moreover, whoever hacked that thing together may have (probably did) make some mistakes, so you likely need to "dig in" and see what they spliced together in the under dash harness

The fuel sender wire should be easy as it only goes ONE place.............from the fuel sender, up through the kick panel connector, and to the sender terminal of the fuel gauge

"MyMopar" has wiring for a late "truck" and some of the "truck" forums may have info. The thing is, Ma kept the same color codes for years, but there WERE changes here and there

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=24

In the 79 diagram, the sender is Light Blue / BlacK

68-71 is Light Blue (pickups)

I'm not intimately familiar with the early clusters, but make certain the thing is grounded. This is a problem, at least on the later ones.
 
Thank you both for the electrical diagram. That helped a ton. And now I know why I failed electronics 101.

The the headlights aren't wired to the fuel sending unit... The fuel sending unit is grounded at some point and completed the circuit. I have 3 out of 4 taillights working now, I'm missing the passenger side taillight receptacle that plugs into the taillight wiring harness. I'll be crafting something there.

To get brakes and turn signals working I've have to hook up the steering wheel from the 74 to the 65 darts dash wiring harness.

The 74 power wagon steering wheel has two sets of wires coming out of it. One with 9 wires and one with 6 wires (larger diameter than the other set of wires). I don't know which does what, but all I see from the car is a block of 8 wires with 5 plugs. I think I need to find me a schematic for the 74.

I'm out of time this weekend, so next weekend I'll have to play with it some more. First thing I'll do is trace the fuel sending unit wire up to the dash.
 
Simple. Post a photo, a GOOD photo of the pickup wiring coming out of the column

One group is for the ignition, the other group is for the turn signal

The turn signals, other than wiring color changes, and the changes in the hazard switch, work the same between the pickup and your older car

That is, all locking columns use an "in column" hazard switch which is actually mechanically and electrically part of the turn signal switch. So you won't need your original hazard toggle on the dash if it had one

Here's what goes into ALL Mopar TS switches, in your case the later style

IN.........switched power from brake light switch

IN.........output from TS flasher

IN.........output from hazard flasher

OUT.......left front TS which also branches off to feed cluster indicator

OUT......right front as above

OUT.....Left rear turn lamp (also brake)

OUT....Right rear turn lamp (also brake)

So it's simply a matter of confirming what you have "on the car end" and what you have "on the column end" and interfacing them

The ignition switch would be same deal, depending on which one you want to use. There may be color changes, but, essentially, there are the same wires, plus might be a couple--three more......like "key in buzzer" switch, illuminated key power, shift quadrant lamp, etc.

This is why I suggested you paw around the truck forums and try and find a diagram for that pickup. If not, refer to the one I posted earlier. If that one does not "jive" go to MyMopar and use the same year wiring for a Mopar pass. car, as the colors are likely the same.

Then we can do something.

Something that is INTIRELY useful is an old stop / tail lamp, here's why..............

This gives you a "heavy" lamp with TWO filaments that you can "rig" several ways. You can do testing with this lamp without burning stuff up, because it will limit current flow.

You can "rig" it these ways, to provide more and more current:

Least. use the two "hot wires" so that power goes in series through both filaments, do not connect the ground shell of the lamp

Next.....Use the lamp shell and the tail lamp lead

One more step up.....Use the lamp shell and the stop lamp lead

Heaviest....Use the lamp shell, and twist the two lamp wires together so you have both filaments in parallel.

This thing is VERY useful for chasing stuff like this, and shorts. You can wire this from the battery NEG to ground, and throw a "dead short" across the hot lead to ground, and all it will do is light your test lamp!!!!
 
Hey 67... I let myself get overwhelmed with seeing two wireing harnesses coming out of the steering wheel. I can figure out which one belongs to the ignition and I can cut that one off. I'm using the dart ignition right now and see no reason to hook up the other one. So now I'm down to one wiring harness off the wheel and one off the car... I'm looking forward to next weekend. If it hooks up, I might even be street legal OMFG.
 
Here's a couple of ideas to start with for the 74 column side.............

From 79 pickup wiring (top), and from 73 B / C body (bottom) you can see these are very similar

(I posted the 73 as it's close to the year of the column, but shows up what you are against......some color changes "maybe"

The hazard flasher feed changed from pink to light blue

I think what is marked "side lamp" should read "stop lamp" both years white

Note the color change on left and right front

This is the kind of thing you will need to work out, and we can help with that, but it would REALLY help if you could find the proper diagram to match your steering column
 

Attachments

  • 73column.jpg
    53.3 KB · Views: 393
  • 79wire.jpg
    57.4 KB · Views: 211
Ok so I found the 74 wiring diagram.
.
White = Stop Lamp
Dark Green = Right Rear (TS?)
Yellow / Black = Left Rear (TS?)
Red = Turn Signal
Dark Blue - NOT DEFINED, its on the harness, but not on the receiving dash harness, so I guess not used by dodge trucks.
Light Green = Right Front(TS?)
Yellow = Left Front (TS?)
Dark Green/White = Horn

What colors are they in a 65 Dart?
 
The way I see it

74 column on left, 65 harness on right

WHITE -------------STOP SWITCH----------WHITE

DARK GREEN---RIGHT REAR-------------BROWN

YELLOW/ BLACK-LEFT REAR--------------DARK GREEN

RED--------------------------------------TS FLASHER-RED

DARK BLUE--------------------------OUTPUT OF 4X flasher

LIGHT GREEN------------------------RIGHT FRONT--TAN

YELLOW---------------------------------LEFT FRONT---LIGHT GREEN

DARK GREEN------------------------HORN BUTTON--BLACK TRACER

I don't know if you 65? had? a 4x flasher. IF not, wire a fuse from a constant hot, through a flasher, and hook to that DARK BLUE. If you already have a hazard flasher, it should work OK if it is already wired, but you will not use the switch on the column.

You can check the colors to the switch with a continuity tester light

Make a truth chart to show what connects to what

With switch "in center" stop slight switch should hook to both rear lamps. Fronts should not hook to anything

With switch to left, flasher should hook to left front and left rear, and brake switch should still hook to right rear

Opposite for right turn

With column hazard turned on, blue should hook to all four lamps front and rear
 
The brown wire of the 65 harness shows 12 volts when I test it. That's not a good thing right? Shouldn't they all have power?
 
They should not "all have power" but the brown should not, either........it should go to your right rear lamp filament. Not sure what to think, there
 
Maybe related to that, I am missing the final pigtail to the right rear lamp, and the key was not in the ignition. But I would think with the ignition off, there should be no power except to the horn, hazard and light (because those typically work whether the key is in or not).

BTW I'm testing for voltage by touching the tester wire to the wire and the other lead to the body of the car.
 
I haven't spliced it yet. I'm realizing that my brake pedal doesn't contact my brake switch sensor when its at rest. So if I can't turn off my brake lights, connecting them will cause my battery to drain. I want to solve this issue.
 
sazzlefrats said:
Maybe related to that, I am missing the final pigtail to the right rear lamp, and the key was not in the ignition. But I would think with the ignition off, there should be no power except to the horn, hazard and light (because those typically work whether the key is in or not).

BTW I'm testing for voltage by touching the tester wire to the wire and the other lead to the body of the car.
Click to expand...

Should not be power to it "at rest" pigtail or no. You've got something crossed up in there somewhere. I'm not sure I can help you further, as obviously the harness has been "hacked." There's only so far one can go on paper as here's the thing:

First, there's the possibility of just plain mistakes in OEM diagrams

Second the harness could be hacked

Third, the harness could be damaged, IE crossed and shorted.

You simply have to "dig in" and find it.

I'm so used to this sort of thing in old, hacked stuff that I learn to assume nothing and suspect the worst and check everything.. When you do that, it actually makes things easier.
 
There is no power at rest. The brake pedal wire has power, but thats because the brake switch is not making contact with the brake pedal, which would interrupt the circuit. So other than that, its all dead :p

I very much appreciate your help. And this is a very definite hack job that's going to take me a long time to sort out. (I get about 2hrs to myself on the weekend to work on this, so I make really poor progress. On the plus side, I don't see any evidence that the previous owner even attempted to modify any of the wiring harness's under the dash to the back of the car, I see some hacking in the engine compartment, but it seems to be legitimate.

I'll invoke threadnecromancy when I make some progress :p

67Dart273 said:
Should not be power to it "at rest" pigtail or no. You've got something crossed up in there somewhere. I'm not sure I can help you further, as obviously the harness has been "hacked." There's only so far one can go on paper as here's the thing:

First, there's the possibility of just plain mistakes in OEM diagrams

Second the harness could be hacked

Third, the harness could be damaged, IE crossed and shorted.

You simply have to "dig in" and find it.

I'm so used to this sort of thing in old, hacked stuff that I learn to assume nothing and suspect the worst and check everything.. When you do that, it actually makes things easier.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top