yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
That’s why I spend for the GD.
ProComp/Speedmaster aluminum heads
- Thread starter j par
- Start date
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That’s why I spend for the GD.
j par
Well-hung Member
Lord help me I have to agree LOL...
It seems to me all the trouble of degreeing a cam is lost with a stretched timing chain??..
stixx
Well-Known Member
You can think of it as Variable Cam Timing... LOL.
But no, I don't think a bit of slop on the chain will throw off your cam timing. I am too stupid when it
comes to computing that... maybe NM9 can do it.
j par
Well-hung Member
I talk to Ted about that when the motor was built and he seemed to have no use for it...
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
It does. Put your degree wheel on and zero it. Then move the crank a bit both ways and read how many degrees the crank will rotate before the cam starts to move.
With slack in the chain like that the cam runs retarded from where you degreed it in at.
I’d buy a tensioner and use it. All chains and gears like that wear very quickly. Look at a motorcycle chain. It will gain length every time it’s new for the first few rides. Same thing here. The chain and gear set up was a “cost effective” way to hook the cam and crank together. But it’s not very accurate.
BTW, I always drill a .040ish hole in the passenger side of the camplate where it covers the oil gallery. I don’t use those dumb soft plugs in there either.
That way you aren’t relying on drip oiling to lube the timing set. You get pressurized oil hitting the gear and if the cam gear has holes in it, the back side of the timing cover. That’s getting oil all over and not relying on the crank slinger (which I don’t use either).
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Doesn’t surprise me. Most guys want to run the 100 dollar floating idler junk. The 3 gear fixed idler gear drive is dead accurate, stupid reliable and hard to screw up.
If anyone tells you gear drives cause harmonics, break parts and cost HP, tell them to show you where any ASScar team, any PS team, any F1 team has published that data. It doesn’t exist. The only things I’ve found has been testing done with the floating idler gear system. It’s junk.
All my drag stuff had a GD. With all the crap I broke, never once was there any sign of crank or cam distress from harmonics. Junk lifters did more damage than anything, and a timing chain or belt wouldn’t fix that.
j par
Well-hung Member
no likelihood and I'll probably just go back out to Ted and grab a new timing chain slap it on and be happy for another five years. with all the work I have to do to clean this engine up and get everything else done all I need is another Fiasco.
My bigger concerns are with the cometic head gaskets sealing or not sealing or if I'm going to end up just tossing that stupid 8553 fel pro gasket on there and bich at Summit that they sold them to me for 15 bucks too much because Edelbrock slap their name on them...
I bought the cometic cuz I wanted quality and now they're just becoming a pain in the butt...
My bigger concerns are with the cometic head gaskets sealing or not sealing or if I'm going to end up just tossing that stupid 8553 fel pro gasket on there and bich at Summit that they sold them to me for 15 bucks too much because Edelbrock slap their name on them...
I bought the cometic cuz I wanted quality and now they're just becoming a pain in the butt...
It’s kinda funny my junk ran 6.0’s when fresh and after 4 years of racing it still runs 6.0’s. Lol. Timing chains rule.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
LOL that’s why I said just use what you have and use a tensioner. I less than a hundred miles the new one will be just like the old one. They always are.
Timing chains are the least accurate way to time a camshaft. But all the “fast” guys use the so they must be good. Those same “fast” guys don’t use a Dyno becuause they don’t race them.
I’m just trying to save you a bit of coin because the tensioner is like 40 bucks at summit. At least the cam timing won’t change as much.
I’ll see if I can post a link to a less than 100 mile timing set. It wasn’t a cheap set either. Let me see if I can do it.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Found it. That’s junk. They ALL are junk like that.
way too much overthinking on the simplest things... LOL
Your right, some will spend hours getting it to the degree, only to lose a couple? LOL. Forget the degree wheel. Put number 1 cylinder on TDC, and then put a straight edge on the exhaust/intake lifters. They should be bevel, no gap. If there is, then move the cam in the correct direction. Use a decent chain set (edelbrock is decent to me - 75 bucks) and never look back.
The tensioner post and the post on junk Fram oil filters will drag on for six months on Moparts. Maybe longer. Lol
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Did you look at the video I posted? Why even degree the cam? When you never test anything you’ll run anything. What I posted was straight junk. If we could have found a gear drive local the guy that owns it would have gladly bought it. Junk IS junk at any price.
LOL.... I said how I'd check the cam. The old method used by racers at the track when they tore down engines. get the lifters even and your ready.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Right...I got what you said. What I said is that where you put it to start? That would be straight up and almost no one does a cam straight up any more (I do most of the time).
Plus, look at your ignition timing with a load on the engine. That mark will move all around. I’ve seen them move 20 degrees. Yeah, that’s great for performance.
Well, I'm obviously not in support of a loose chain. Neither am I opposed to gear drives. lol. But, a decent chain will survive for years - and proven consistency are in those that bracket race every weekend and the ET doesn't change. Many bracket racers I know run chains, some don't tear their engines down in 3-6 years, and they can dial and run to the hundredth, maybe even thousands of dial in time. Also, the car over the course of that time usually won't slow up - if anything, it will run a couple tenths faster after a 100 runs. Oh, the only way your method of "bouncing 20* under load" works to show chain flop is if the distributor is locked. I'm not trying to educate the educated, but as you say, somebody else might be reading through this thread and I'm just trying to get a perspective out there.....
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Well, I'm obviously not in support of a loose chain. Neither am I opposed to gear drives. lol. But, a decent chain will survive for years - and proven consistency are in those that bracket race every weekend and the ET doesn't change. Many bracket racers I know run chains, some don't tear their engines down in 3-6 years, and they can dial and run to the hundredth, maybe even thousands of dial in time. Also, the car over the course of that time usually won't slow up - if anything, it will run a couple tenths faster after a 100 runs. Oh, the only way your method of "bouncing 20* under load" works to show chain flop is if the distributor is locked. I'm not trying to educate the educated, but as you say, somebody else might be reading through this thread and I'm just trying to get a perspective out there.....
No, they flop with an advance curve in the distributor too.
So if the chain gets loose and the car goes faster, that tells me the the ICL wasn’t correct for the application. If it’s correct and the cam timing retards they will lose power and slow down.
You also need to run more P/V to make up for the exhaust valve clearance getting eaten up by cam retard.
FWIW most any decent bracket car is running a timing belt any more. Just the stubborn cheap skates run chains. That’s just the truth of it.
j par
Well-hung Member
Well just leaving the shop now and I wanted to know if anybody had any complaints because I do believe the complaint department is up in the air...
PRH
Well-Known Member
When you build an engine that the valves kiss the piston every stroke, accuracy is a must .LOL
I found out in the 1970’s they will self clearance when needed. Everything was built with close clearances back then because compression was the only thing we had going for us.
j par
Well-hung Member
So I asked about surface at the machine shop and the answer came back very quick from Ted and Ron that my block definitely has a smooth finish with the high-end machine that they use for such... Also the aluminum heads seem glass like smooth.... He said give the cometic gaskets a light spray of copper seal and let it rip..
j par
Well-hung Member
since I got these issues solved now one of the things that bounces back and forth in my head is putting my electric water pump back on?..
Also I'm going to be curious how this intake manifold lines up with the heads which I'm going to try and get the heads on today so I can clean that lower part of the tunnel ram and see how it drops on there....
Also I'm going to be curious how this intake manifold lines up with the heads which I'm going to try and get the heads on today so I can clean that lower part of the tunnel ram and see how it drops on there....
j par
Well-hung Member
Working on it...
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