Rebuilding the front suspension

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straightlinespeed

straightlinespeed

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
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Have a couple questions. I need to rebuild the front suspension/steering on my Scamp and will be doing it all. The one thing I decided at last minute to do is the torsion bars, I think..

I still have the stock bars in the car.. Does anyone know what a 71 Scamp came with, size wise? Right now I have the front lower than factory ride height. I like the look of the wheels tucked up a bit. I have about 1/2-3/4" before the bump stops (its been awhile since I've looked). I just know its not sitting on the bump stops. I want to stiffen up the car in turns so I was thinking of buying the PST 1.03 bars but would like to retain the slightly lowered look in the front. Will I be able to do that with those bars??
 
straightlinespeed said:
Have a couple questions. I need to rebuild the front suspension/steering on my Scamp and will be doing it all. The one thing I decided at last minute to do is the torsion bars, I think..

I still have the stock bars in the car.. Does anyone know what a 71 Scamp came with, size wise???
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Depends on engine and whether or not the car has air conditioning. For instance a 318 car with A/C uses the same bars as a 340 car. A 318 w/o A/C uses the same bar as a 225 w/ A/C.
straightlinespeed said:
Right now I have the front lower than factory ride height. I like the look of the wheels tucked up a bit. I have about 1/2-3/4" before the bump stops (its been awhile since I've looked). I just know its not sitting on the bump stops. I want to stiffen up the car in turns so I was thinking of buying the PST 1.03 bars but would like to retain the slightly lowered look in the front. Will I be able to do that with those bars??
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Yes. If the bars are properly "clocked", there will be enough adjustment to drop the front end where it is now.
 
Oh sorry, the car was originally a 318 car with A/C. So with that being said.. Do you happen to know the size of those bars?

Thank you for your help
 
abodyjoe said:
Something like a .830 bar I think.
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Thats what I was thinking... Thank you sir!

So Im guessing upgrading to a 1.03 bar will make the car feel and drive totally different. Is there anything I should know or watch for when I swap everything out.. Maybe hints to make the job easier.
 
318 w A/C generally had .870 bars. Should have part number 892/893 stamped in the ends.

1.03 bars will definitely firm the car up, and a front sway bar is probably the best bang for the buck front end improvement out there. There are lower profile bump stops available too which should get you a little more travel, just watch ground clearance.
 
C130 Chief said:
318 w A/C generally had .870 bars. Should have part number 892/893 stamped in the ends.

1.03 bars will definitely firm the car up, and a front sway bar is probably the best bang for the buck front end improvement out there. There are lower profile bump stops available too which should get you a little more travel, just watch ground clearance.
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Thanks Chief, I'll have to look for those numbers, I havent crawled under the car for a long time. Yep, that is the plan as well to add the sway bar, its a factory sway bar, but still a sway bar. I already have a set of LCA's with the tabs, that I plan on rebuilding so that I can add the bar.
 
C130 Chief said:
1.03 bars will definitely firm the car up, and a front sway bar is probably the best bang for the buck front end improvement out there.
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This is your answer. Replace the 40 year old worn out bars with some new 1.03 bars and a decent sway bar and it'll be like driving a new machine.
 
So I know the factory sway bar is not as good as a aftermarket bar, but I still should see a significant improvement correct?
 
Sorry, I didn't realize that you already had a factory bar. I would check the bushings on it and run it. Your money is better spent elsewhere like decent shocks and tires.
 
Yep, I'll be installing all new bushings and end links for the bar as well. I just have cheap Monroe's on the car now but would like to upgrade to at least kyb shocks.
 
One size of new T-bar is much cheaper since most people use it. I recalled 1.00"D, but could be 1.03"D. I would use that. It doesn't jar most people's teeth too bad, and gives a ride more like modern cars.

After bolting everything back, adjust for as much caster as possible (rear UCA inward fully), and front UCA to give desired camber. Most people prefer the tops of the tires leaning in slightly (negative camber), unlike the factory spec. Adjust ride height to preference. Finally, adjust toe-in (steering link adjusters). Use a tape measure front to back to get 1/16" less width across the fronts. Sight along the front tires w/ straight edge at the rears to insure "about right". You can then take to an alignment shop if you like. I find the tape measure is very accurate.
 
As many people as there are that hate the Monroes, I've had them on my Dart for a couple of thousand miles now and have no complaints. I don't autocross with them, but they ride nice and the price was right.
 
BrianT said:
As many people as there are that hate the Monroes, I've had them on my Dart for a couple of thousand miles now and have no complaints. I don't autocross with them, but they ride nice and the price was right.
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I'm with you there....Monroe's with MP .990 bars in a 75 Duster 360 make for a great ride...
 
BillGrissom said:
After bolting everything back, adjust for as much caster as possible (rear UCA inward fully), and front UCA to give desired camber. Most people prefer the tops of the tires leaning in slightly (negative camber), unlike the factory spec. Adjust ride height to preference. Finally, adjust toe-in (steering link adjusters). Use a tape measure front to back to get 1/16" less width across the fronts. Sight along the front tires w/ straight edge at the rears to insure "about right". You can then take to an alignment shop if you like. I find the tape measure is very accurate.
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I have to revive this post since Im at this stage finally and have some questions.

I did as you said with the rear UCA bushing all the way in. I was not sure where to put the front UCA so I put it all the way to the outside. Which tilted my tire inward at the top like you said, Im not sure if that was to much and I should readjust or just let the alignment shop deal with it.

As for getting the tires straight. When I put the new tie rod ends and adjusters on the car., I set them up with equal turns and did this on both sides. My drivers side tire is pretty much straight forward and the passengers is turned to the left slightly. Do I equally adjust the tie rods, turning the drivers side to the left a little and the passengers side to the right so that they each come into alignment with each other? Or does it not matter and just adjust one side?
 
straightlinespeed said:
I have to revive this post since Im at this stage finally and have some questions.

I did as you said with the rear UCA bushing all the way in. I was not sure where to put the front UCA so I put it all the way to the outside. Which tilted my tire inward at the top like you said, Im not sure if that was to much and I should readjust or just let the alignment shop deal with it.

As for getting the tires straight. When I put the new tie rod ends and adjusters on the car., I set them up with equal turns and did this on both sides. My drivers side tire is pretty much straight forward and the passengers is turned to the left slightly. Do I equally adjust the tie rods, turning the drivers side to the left a little and the passengers side to the right so that they each come into alignment with each other? Or does it not matter and just adjust one side?
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I hope I'm not messing with Bills question, but if you want your steering wheel centered (meaning your steering wheel isn' cocked off to one side when the wheels face straight ahead) then you have to do what it takes to get it that way.
Most people don't think about the wheel being centered until they are all done, then notice and go "Screw it, I'm not redoing all that"

The BEST way to do it is to center your steering wheel first and then do whater is needed with your tie rod adjustments to bring both wheels where they need to be.
Same amount of turns on each side does not matter all. (approximate is fine) as long as one side isn't bottomed on the adjustment and the other barely holding by a couple of threads. :D just fairly equal.

OH, and you can bungie the steering wheel nice and tight or whatever works for you to hold it straight while you adjust.
 
TrailBeast said:
I hope I'm not messing with Bills question, but if you want your steering wheel centered (meaning your steering wheel isn' cocked off to one side when the wheels face straight ahead) then you have to do what it takes to get it that way.
Most people don't think about the wheel being centered until they are all done, then notice and go "Screw it, I'm not redoing all that"

The BEST way to do it is to center your steering wheel first and then do whater is needed with your tie rod adjustments to bring both wheels where they need to be.
Same amount of turns on each side does not matter all. (approximate is fine) as long as one side isn't bottomed on the adjustment and the other barely holding by a couple of threads. :D just fairly equal.

OH, and you can bungie the steering wheel nice and tight or whatever works for you to hold it straight while you adjust.
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I dont think I will have that problem with my car. I have a after market Grant wheel on it and Im pretty sure I can center my wheel after words. Although I will make sure that the steering box is centered before beginning. Using the bungies is a dang good idea. Thanks for all your help Greg.
 
I hope you're talking about putting the front end together well enough to get the car to a professional alignment. I recommend the Hi Perf Street settings from the chart below. I don't recommend using the factory settings unless you're using bias ply tires.
 

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2 Darts said:
I hope you're talking about putting the front end together well enough to get the car to a professional alignment. I recommend the Hi Perf Street settings from the chart below. I don't recommend using the factory settings unless you're using bias ply tires.
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Yes, I just rebuilt the entire front end with all new parts. Now I'm trying to get it close enough to get it to the shop for alignment this spring. I was going to use the typical street performance specs off of that chart. Although I'll give them that chart and see what they can do.
 
When I rebuilt the front end on my 73 Dart /6, the most caster I could get was + 2º. I went with -1º camber and 1/16 toe-in. IMO, all of the work I put into the car made it handle a lot better. Initial turn-in was considerably sharper.
 
2 Darts said:
When I rebuilt the front end on my 73 Dart /6, the most caster I could get was + 2º. I went with -1º camber and 1/16 toe-in. IMO, all of the work I put into the car made it handle a lot better. Initial turn-in was considerably sharper.
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Thanks I appreciate the input.
 
straightlinespeed,

As TrailBeast said, don't focus too much on whether the adjuster turns are the same between L & R. Ideally, they would end up close, but that depends on how consistent the factory manufactured all the parts (K-frame, steering linkage, ball joints, ...). You want the front tires parallel when driving and the steering wheel centered. That is 2 requirements and you have 2 knobs to adjust (tie rods), so algebra says you can get there.

Start w/ steering wheel centered. Best if the tires can rotate freely (drive up on smooth floor tiles or at least smooth concrete floor). Sight along each front tire at the rear tires, and adjust each tie rod so you sight ~1" out from rear tire (if they have same track width as fronts). That gets you real close. You will see that a little adjuster turn makes a big difference. Use a tape measure across fwd and aft track of front tires (easiest if straight grooves). Should be ~1/16" more across aft, if new parts, to give slight toe in. The wheels rotate back slightly when driving, from play in the parts, so that makes them perfectly parallel when driving. The steering wheel might end up slightly cocked when driving, due to the crown of the road and such, so might need to fine-tune. I find above method sufficient and skip alignment shops with their expensive laser machines. Toe-in changes over time as ride height sags, etc, so should check & adjust every 5 yrs or so. Gets expensive if you go to shops for that.
 
Bill, thank you for the detailed explanation. I ended up centering the wheel. My drivers side tire was pretty straight but the passengers side was turned to the left a lot. So I adjusted the link and at least got that tire pointing forward. I have not gotten any further on it since I am now back to work. I plan on playing with it more this weekend and trying what you suggested.

Thank you again!
 
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