Rhs 360x

[bigdemo1]

Bare heads from summit,are these a good starting point?Street 360 commando bottom end xe 268 cam eddy rpm intake currently 9.2 comp.

 

[moper]

They are a decent starting point, but I think I'd go with the LAx versions and they will be limited in the cam size a little. Least that's what I've seen so far. They looked beautiful when I saw/held them.

 

[bigdemo1]

Sorry which ones are limited?

 

[rmchrgr]

There is an issue with the spring seats - there is not enough material to allow spring seat cutting to be able to run valve springs that have more than 1.725" installed height. This means that you can't run springs that will handle too much over .500" + lift which usually require around 1.8" of installed height. Therefore not enough cam for the air flow they have.

From the Hughes 'tech article' page:

"...On the heads we checked the tallest spring installed height we could get was 1.627". Note: That was achieved using this tall retainer in which the stem barely clears the retainer, about .040". INDY tells us that the spring pockets (bases) can be cut up to .100" which would result in 1.725" installed height. What this boils down to is that for most applications you will need to have the spring pockets cut. Let us know what you need and we can do it."

 

[bigdemo1]

Excellant info,I wasn't aware of any of that thanks,Sid.

 

[Steve68]

Look at this thread about these heads. It is very interesting: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=73132&highlight=Indy+LAX+Head

 

[bigdemo1]

Man oh man oh man it's hard to make a decision on heads!!!
Oh and thanks for more info.

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

So are people saying that a J head has more meat in the spring pad?

So are people saying that you can't stick a .020 longer .100+chevy valve in them with pop up retainers and or pop keepers and run .600 lift?

I think a more accurate statement would be -if you wanna run the magnum pedestal rockers expect the geometry to 'get worse' when going over .550lift


The geometry on any rocker stand head is based on stock specs=stock .450ish lift, after that you're on your own- hence brodix,race w2, etc all take adjustable rocker stands.
OH AND the fact that indy uses big block arms on their small block heads for as stated=better geometry.

 

[moper]

There are wasy to get more lift. But int he end you end up spending... which is what you're trying to avoid by using them. Least that's my line of thinking. I've only held one set and taht wasn't anything more thana show an tell. So I cant comment other than to say what has been reported seems to be true. IE MadDart's issues that he's posetd about. Although following that, Hughes may have a rocker set to help with that. But again, its a $550 setup...lol.

 

[rmchrgr]

Exactly, anything can be done, but why go through the expense? Once you go through all the machining and valve set up, might as well just buy a set of Eddys. Seems like a pretty bad design flaw to work around. I think I'd give up some port flow to be able to use the proper valve gear and let someone port them, probably be more straightforward than trying to re-engineer their valve layout. As illustrated in the Mad Dart/BJR thread, $400 (or whatever it came out to be) for valves when they already come with makes no sense.

I probably won't buy them until they figure out a good solution and I do in fact want a set of these - they would be perfect for what I want to do with my own project.

To me, this flaw make the EQ's look like a better deal since they don't require out-of-the-box thinking. Too bad!

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

Yeah but eddy's need work too, pushrod holes are outta wack and the valve job leaves much to be desired, just for starters.....

EQ's perfect??? Do it yourself or find someone here that has as big a cam as MAD DART with their EQ's and then lets see what is really happening.

Most people don't even check geometry let alone how much ACTUAL lift they are getting at the valve.


The 'IDEA' behind using them is that they 'flow well', bolt up stock with no mod's to brackets for accessory's and you can make more power with iron given the same comp ratio compared to aluminum.

I think his only regret is going with magum rocker set up and having work done on the other side of the country by someone who didn't have all the parts to mock up before stem heights amongst other things were cut. JMO
Who's fault if anyones is that....

 

[rmchrgr]

Yeah but eddy's need work too, pushrod holes are outta wack and the valve job leaves much to be desired, just for starters.....

Hmmmm... most people that run them seem to do so with a great deal of success. I don't really recall ever having spoken to anyone or read much on the boards that say the Eddy's are not a bolt-on deal. I guess if you're trying to go 9 seconds with them maybe but for most guys, OOTB Eddys are the best bang for the buck.

EQ's perfect??? Do it yourself or find someone here that has as big a cam as MAD DART with their EQ's and then lets see what is really happening.

No one is saying EQ's are perfect, just a better deal at the moment because they do not require all sorts of machining to be able to utilize them to their fullest potential. Porting heads without re-engineering the valves is decidedly more straightforward than re-engineering the valve layout, then porting.

Most people don't even check geometry let alone how much ACTUAL lift they are getting at the valve.

So then for 'most people' the EQ's would be a better deal since they don't require re-engineering the valve.

The 'IDEA' behind using them is that they 'flow well', bolt up stock with no mod's to brackets for accessory's and you can make more power with iron given the same comp ratio compared to aluminum.

True, no one is disputing that. What is being discussed is that they have such good potential in raw form that it's really unfortunate that they can't be utilized to their fullest potential without a complicated work-around to a terrible design flaw.

I think his only regret is going with magum rocker set up and having work done on the other side of the country by someone who didn't have all the parts to mock up before stem heights amongst other things were cut. JMO
Who's fault if anyones is that....

Well, exactly. If BJR didn't have to do all the complicated stuff to the valves then it would have been just straight-up porting and bolt them on. Not sure what your point is. I don't know exactly what Mad Dart is doing with these but they seem like an odd choice for a serious effort exactly because of the silly design flaw.

Not sure what rocker choice he made but the FBO/racer brown stuff looks killer to me. I'd run that stuff without worry.

But anyway, why go into something knowing that they will have to be completely re-worked to get them to work like you want them to? Why not just start at a better point? There's other alternatives that would end up costing about the same with porting one all said and done. Seems like wasted effort and money to me but whatever, I'm sure they work great!

It's annoying that this product appears to have so much potential but someone somewhere dropped the ball on the valve layout. Why pay for that?

 

[mshred]

im interested in these heads myself, but what rmchrgr says makes perfect sense...i dont see the use in buying them as a cheap good alternative when they are going to need more work and thus more money and end up costing as much as eddy's or something...I am interested to hear how maddarts setup turns out though

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

Hmmmm... most people that run them seem to do so with a great deal of success. I don't really recall ever having spoken to anyone or read much on the boards that say the Eddy's are not a bolt-on deal. I guess if you're trying to go 9 seconds with them maybe but for most guys, OOTB Eddys are the best bang for the buck.



No one is saying EQ's are perfect, just a better deal at the moment because they do not require all sorts of machining to be able to utilize them to their fullest potential. Porting heads without re-engineering the valves is decidedly more straightforward than re-engineering the valve layout, then porting.



So then for 'most people' the EQ's would be a better deal since they don't require re-engineering the valve.



True, no one is disputing that. What is being discussed is that they have such good potential in raw form that it's really unfortunate that they can't be utilized to their fullest potential without a complicated work-around to a terrible design flaw.



Well, exactly. If BJR didn't have to do all the complicated stuff to the valves then it would have been just straight-up porting and bolt them on. Not sure what your point is. I don't know exactly what Mad Dart is doing with these but they seem like an odd choice for a serious effort exactly because of the silly design flaw.

Not sure what rocker choice he made but the FBO/racer brown stuff looks killer to me. I'd run that stuff without worry.

But anyway, why go into something knowing that they will have to be completely re-worked to get them to work like you want them to? Why not just start at a better point? There's other alternatives that would end up costing about the same with porting one all said and done. Seems like wasted effort and money to me but whatever, I'm sure they work great!

It's annoying that this product appears to have so much potential but someone somewhere dropped the ball on the valve layout. Why pay for that?

WOW you missed the whole point.

Eddy's, econo-w2, rhs,eq are all based on stock geometry, ok?

We aren't talikng about a guy running a tiny voodoo cam on rhs heads, we are talking .620 lift...

And there are plenty of guy's here on this site that because they are running a stroker, now need a big [.550] cam, so thats why.

So when you take something that already costs more than rhs, fix it, then up the ante by placing more demand on it =bigger cam/cid/different rockers etc.... and have to now re engineer the geometry, How is that cheaper????

!!!!!!!Anyone here running eddy's at .620 lift that have un worked perfect geometry?

Having something look 'killer' to you and and actually working 'killer' are 2 different things.

What complicated valve work? He opened the guides 11/32 and did a bowl blend and a valve job for 2.02 on the intakes, the rest was by choice/preference.

I'll admit, I can can get it done probably cheaper where I'm at going by the east coast pricing moper always talks about at his shop, it's no wonder you guy's don't go broke....

!!!!!!Who's running EQ's here with .620 lift and perfect geometry that required no work?

you're losing me with this.

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

im interested in these heads myself, but what rmchrgr says makes perfect sense...i dont see the use in buying them as a cheap good alternative when they are going to need more work and thus more money and end up costing as much as eddy's or something...I am interested to hear how maddarts setup turns out though

Hey are you gonna run .620? or .580 lift? how about .550 lift?

They flowed great with the valves that came with them, MAD DART is doing WAY MORE than you are, so don't confuse this.
Besides... A set of .100+ 2.020/1.60 chev valves cost a whole $120 and opening the guides and VJ on int's would only cost another $245 and heck you could breath on these RHS's with a grinder and have bitchin #'s.


Read all of the thread/s 1st.

 

[moper]

I would never run an RPM out of teh box. I have yet to NOT find something wrong with them. The pushrod issues are there in big blocks too, and as a part of the correction that gets addressed. I can say, I also have yet to have a geometry issue with RPMs. But as the engine guys know, with a shaft mounted, cast in pedestal rocker system that just means the valve job is getting done right during the correction process. And again.. IT AINT MY SHOP. It's a business I use...lol. And his rates are comparable with Hughes, Muscle Motors, Shady Dell, Indy, Barton, Performance Only Racing, Mopar Engines West... etc etc etc. If you have the good work, and you have the good equipment, you have the bigger bill. If you have smaller local shops, with stone seat grinders or horizontal milling tables or a boring bar... You could have the best machinist int eh world, and you still wont get the best results because old euipment simply cannot do as precise a job. Sorry, I know this is of topic, but I'm getting tired of hearing how out of reality pricing can get. You get what you pay for... every time. No exceptions.

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

And hey guy's I don't wanna get into argument, were all knowledgable people here.
It should be seen for what it is='in this case' not all....

 

[crackedback]

Try running a SB with a hyd roller set up and 1.6 cranes on an eddy head... you'll wish they were perfect... Eddy's are a nice head OOTB and after getting checked are a fine runner. Big power, over 575 or so, it's the wrong head. To get 575hp they need some pretty substantial porting.

Every set up has it's quirks. If you aren't ready to deal with them, then run stock stuff and be done with it.

The RHS head is a pretty good piece to start with. To run a large camshaft they need machining, without a doubt. Could they have been designed better, ABSOLUTELY. I have multiple sets of Eddies and have been thinking about possibly running a set of the RHS style LA heads on a future build after Brian at Indio Motor looks over the set he has. I like the fact that the RHS head can look sort of stock in appearance.

 

[Steve68]

I used the LAX heads straight from Indy assembled with the 1.92 intakes on 318/390 stroker with an XE274 camshaft. Loved the fact that all of the accessories bolted right up. For $100 more could get with 2.02 intakes if you want them. They are limited by stock valve choice for 8mm stems but by going to 11/32" there is a whole bunch of valves available and these heads were designed as replacements for the W2 heads as they become harder to get. Whole lot of flow with LA style valve gear for $1,140.

 

[rmchrgr]

WOW you missed the whole point.
we are talking .620 lift...

Not sure who you think the RHS heads are aimed at but to me, they are marketed as a street machine head for guys who want 450hp or so. Even that level might be a stretch with the valve spring issue. This is what makes the other heads look like a better deal until they figure out the problem.

That being said, if it were me and I was planning on using a cam with .620" lift, (which assumes you're looking for at least 525 + hp with a small block) there's NO WAY I'd even consider using these heads with their inherent flaws, you'd be swimming upstream. At a minimum I'd be looking at W2s. Indy aluminum would be a good choice too, basically anything with an ALREADY offset rocker, 2.05" valves and on and on.

Right tool for the job is all I'm saying. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a guy on the internet.

 

[w2360Duster]

Not sure who you think the RHS heads are aimed at but to me, they are marketed as a street machine head for guys who want 450hp or so. Even that level might be a stretch with the valve spring issue. This is what makes the other heads look like a better deal until they figure out the problem.

That being said, if it were me and I was planning on using a cam with .620" lift, (which assumes you're looking for at least 525 + hp with a small block) there's NO WAY I'd even consider using these heads with their inherent flaws, you'd be swimming upstream. At a minimum I'd be looking at W2s. Indy aluminum would be a good choice too, basically anything with an ALREADY offset rocker, 2.05" valves and on and on.

Right tool for the job is all I'm saying. But hey, what do I know, I'm just a guy on the internet.

Uhh hey rmchrgr those RhS heads are capable of supporting 625hp without going all out porting. you have your opininion others have theirs, not everyone wants to run bellybutton Edelbrock heads.

 

[rmchrgr]

Uhh hey rmchrgr those RhS heads are capable of supporting 625hp without going all out porting.

I'd love to see that combo!

Like I said before, and this is really all I'm saying here, is that I doubt anyone trying to make more than 525 hp from a small block Mopar would be using these heads until the valve spring issue is sorted out.

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

I'd love to see that combo!

Like I said before, and this is really all I'm saying here, is that I doubt anyone trying to make more than 525 hp from a small block Mopar would be using these heads until the valve spring issue is sorted out.

..Yeah cause you'll be running stock valve lengths with that power......

 

[Petzschler]

I can't see those RHS heads making anywhere remotely close to 600 NA horsepower. 550 is a long stretch. its just not gonna happen.
or any production cast iron head for that matter... for those kinda horsepower levels you need W5's/Indy's(360-1)/etc.

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

Indy cylinder head had entered the engine masters challenge and made how much with crappy magnum heads?

Who knows till you do it or try.
I just think
If a 340 w/210cc heads can make 537 NA then I think 190cc head can get you to or closer to 600hp with the help of 70 more cubic inches.