Rookie numbers matching question

[Duggie]

I read on and off about "matching numbers" between engine and chassis. Was this going on back in 1964 \6 times? Are the numbers referencing the model year or more specific to productions runs or?

Enquiring minds.

 

[missing linc]

Numbers matching typically means that the vin on the engine is the same a the vin of the car/truck, whatever. I can't say definitively how far back this goes, but I expect it has been commonplace for most manufacturers for decades. It's a well established method of tracking/preventing auto theft and chop shop operations.

 

[MoparMike1974]

Numbers matching means the serial number matches on the vin, engine and transmission. I dont know what year it started but on older vehicles I dont think the engines were stamped. Im sure someone here will chime in.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I think 68 was the first year for numbers on the engine matching the VIN. For Mopar at least.

 

[Dana67Dart]

I believe 68 was earliest vin on engj e and trans,

67 for sure does not have it. Best you can do is be sure your engine block is cast and assembled a little before the build date of the car. That goes for ALL the other parts. Some might be months ahead, some might be days to weeks.

 

[halfafish]

For Mopars, numbers started about 68 or 69, they weren't a thing before that.

 

[Murray]

Before 1968, "matching numbers" would mean that casting numbers and dates (engine and trans) would correspond to the build date of the car. 1968 and later had the body VIN number stamped on the engine and tranny (three places on the body). Matching numbers would increase the value of the car in the eyes of some.

 

[Duggie]

Thank you all for your skooling!

The people on here are a university of knowledge.

 

[moparmat2000]

1969 as the first year for it. The last 8 of the vin were stamped in the body in at least 2 locations typically the upper radiator support, then covered with a mopar antifreeze decal. And at the rear under the trunk weatherstrip on the left side drip rail, as well as stamped in the engine block by the oil pan rail, and on the transmission case on a machined pad on the side of a 3 or 4 speed, and near the pan rail on automatics.

 

[Duggie]

Where would the MFG date be stamped on the block of a 64 Dart?

 

[YY1]

Halfway through 1968.

The first ones were stamped on the top of the rough casting adjacent to the trans.
Not very easy to read.

For '69 they started stamping a smoothly machined area of the pan rail.

 

[Duggie]

I'm easily confused. So no engine stamp on 64s?

 

[toolmanmike]

I'm easily confused. So no engine stamp on 64s?

I would imagine there is a casting date on the side of the block along with a casting number. (both will be cast into the side of the block and not stamped) But, it's a casting number (when the block was cast) and not a production number (when the block was machined, assembled, or installed)

 

[Duggie]

Got it. Thanks!!

 

[Dana67Dart]

Don't know about 64, but look on front of block just under the drivers side head for some stampings as well, engine assy date and other info at least on 67 up

 

[66fyssh]

Engines were not "matched" to the body until sometime in 1968.

Here's a great "How-to" Karl did on identifying a small block. Maybe some info you can use.

How to ID a Small Block Engine Block:

 

[Duggie]

Excellent tutorial. I saved the page for future reference.

This is great stuff!

 

[cudamark]

Halfway through 1968.

The first ones were stamped on the top of the rough casting adjacent to the trans.
Not very easy to read.

For '69 they started stamping a smoothly machined area of the pan rail.

I agree. The only '68 engines that I've seen stamped were performance models however. Has anyone seen a 1968 slant 6, 318, or 383 2bbl with the block stamped with the VIN? like YY1 mentioned, it stamped in the rough block casting in top of the block next to the block/trans seam. I don't remember ever seeing the same thing on the auto transmission, just the part number and date code stamped into the pan rail.

 

[67Dart273]

Up through 68 the "body" numbers were not VIN, they were "order" numbers. The only VIN was the VIN tag on the doorpost throug 67, and the dash in 68. You could tie the order no. to the VIN through the order sheet if you had it. We had a guy on here, bought a 68 A with NO DASH. 68 was first year of VIN on the dash. So now there's no VIN PERIOD. I don't remember what he did to solve it.

I "love" these people on fakebook/ CL who spew "numbers matching." It means they are either lying or stupid. One is bad as the other because it means they make stuff up

 

[cudamark]

That's true for the body. The VIN isn't on the fender tag or anywhere else on the body....only the shipping order number. I have seen performance engines in '68 that had the VIN stamped into the engine block where I mentioned earlier.

 

[YY1]

SO stamped body cars can potentially complicate things in state's that specify two body VIN locations for an out of state title transfer of lost title application/search.

If you can't explain the SO vs VIN issue thoroughly yet concisely enough for the notary, DMV, or LEO, you are screwed.

 

[cudamark]

Other than the VIN tag and broadcast sheet, there is one other place where you can find the VIN, and that is the Certicard. The shipping order number isn't on the card too, so, it can't be match that way, but, there are a few codes on the Certicard that match codes on the fender tag. Mainly the trim and paint code, transmission code, standard or sure grip rear axle, and the build date. Also on the card would be the owner's name and address, and the delivery date stamped into a plastic strip that's glued to the Certicard. How much that would help in getting a VIN certified for a title transfer is anyone's guess. Personally, I haven't had much trouble here in Ca, but, I've heard from others that some of the younger DMV workers don't know what to do with the early VIN's since they're not as long as the ones on modern cars. Until they got someone who knew what to do, some of these DMV workers would tell the prospective owner that they had to go the California Highway Patrol to get a new VIN assigned to the car! I've also seen titles with the shipping order number used as the VIN. Just amazing the ignorance of government agencies who are supposed to be experts in their field.