Setting ride height/alignment with no motor

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snowmobiler7c

snowmobiler7c

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I have a 70 swinger i just installed all new moog suspension parts, 1in torsion bars, and installed the sbp kelsey hayes disc brakes. Hopefully sometime tomorrow i want to go through and torque all the items to the correct spec and set the ride height/alignment. I know it cant be done correctly without the engine, interior, and a full tank of gas. But would anyone have any suggestion on a measurement for setting the ride height currently? I just want to get it close and adjust the rest of the alignment so its not horrible when im moving it around. Then when i do have everything else installed it should be easier to make it driveable to get it to an alignment shop. Thanks for any input.
Mark
 
set the bars so that the LCA bumpers are 1" off the frame, bonuce the car a couple of times and reset

then go all the way in on the rear/ upper control arm adjuster, all the way out in the front...

then for toe go lock to lock, then center the wheel, tie or have some one hold the wheel... adjust till it starts getting close, then roll the car back and forth about 6 ft... re set toe and roll again and re inspect...

for toe measure the inner most tread groove on both fronts and both rears, the front should be about an 1/8" less than the rear... (toe in) / \
 
Don't even bother setting ride height or messing with the alignment until you have the car put back together.

Other than getting the front tires pointing straight It's a total waste of time
 
If anything,have the front end cranked up,to compensate for the weight of the motor.
Other than that,anything else would be a waste of time.
 
have a big friend stand on the k member! lol

yha pretty much pointless except jacking the t bars and making the wheels point straight so you can roll it.
 
I beg to differ with the general consensus here. If you set the front and rear ride height to where it will sit with everything installed your alignment will be exactly the same as if you had the actual weight in it. The springs and torsion bars know when there is a load on them, but the rest of the suspension does not.
 
Suspension motion is not linear, its a waste of time without the weight AND position of the engine/trans. Think about it, all of the components would be straight as an arrow if it was. Look at ball joint angles, control arm angles even unibody angles nothing is really straight. Engineers have computer simulations to "move" objects in 3 dimensions to calculate these relationships and how they will react.. sorry for the long winded answer :-k
 
i dont know about any one else, but EVERY /6 to 440 i have pulled out and installed has resulted in the front end of the car changing ride height at least 2-4 inches. i find it pointless to set the ride height before dropping in a 700 pound engine plus a transmission
 
Skeeter said:
Suspension motion is not linear, its a waste of time without the weight AND position of the engine/trans. Think about it, all of the components would be straight as an arrow if it was. Look at ball joint angles, control arm angles even unibody angles nothing is really straight. Engineers have computer simulations to "move" objects in 3 dimensions to calculate these relationships and how they will react.. sorry for the long winded answer :-k
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Alignment is not set in motion, it is set statically. If there is no engine, it's not going to be driven.
 
73AbodEE said:
i dont know about any one else, but EVERY /6 to 440 i have pulled out and installed has resulted in the front end of the car changing ride height at least 2-4 inches. i find it pointless to set the ride height before dropping in a 700 pound engine plus a transmission
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Sure, that's why you'd need to crank down the bars and set the ride height without the weight in the car.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
But then you will be re-adjusting everything after you put the weight in the car. This is why it's a waste of time.
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No, you would only readjust the ride height via the torsion bar adjustment. There is nothing else to adjust or change.
 

fzmax said:
Sure, that's why you'd need to crank down the bars and set the ride height without the weight in the car.
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??? if you cranked them down (thus lowering the car) without the weight, then put 700 + pounds on it, the LCAs would bottom out in the frame rails. at any rate, i always just leave it where it is until i get the engine back in the car, and then set it where i want it.
 
I'm with fzmax on this one. You set it at the ride height you want, get the alignment close (or right on depending on your tools). Then when you get all the weight installed raise the ride height back to where you had it. Theoretically the alignment would not change. I'd still check it, though.
 
Align it,set the ride height...Install motor...And then do it all again.
Yah, that makes sense. :-k
 
Complete waste of time. The tires won't wear rolling the car around without the engine in it, and the caster, camber and toe all change with the height of the front end. The only thing worth doing is cranking the torsion bar adjusters about half way in so your car doesn't sit down on the bumpstops when you put the engine in it.

Don't believe me? Have your car aligned, then adjust the torsion bars to lower the front end 1/2 an inch, and take it back to the alignment shop. They'll be more than happy to tell you that your caster, camber, and even the toe has changed. All of these items change as the suspension moves through its travel, which is why people talk about camber gain, toe change, bump steer etc. Without the engine, the car will sit several inches higher, making any adjustments pretty much useless unless you already know how to set the alignment at that height so it will be right when it sits back down.

See this article on changes the spindles to the later FMJ units. Nice little analysis on camber gain and toe change.

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/suspension/mopp_0503_swapping_a_and_b_disc_brake_spindles/roll_center.html
 
Sorry guys, maybe I'm not explaining this correct.

You measure from the LCA pivot to the ground to set the ride height, this number is in the service manual. You do this before you touch your UCA adjustments. After the ride height, then you align the car. Do this with the motor in, out, big block, slant six it doesn't matter. When you add or remove weight, you set the ride height back to that same number (LCA pivot to the ground) and your caster, camber and toe will be exactly the same.

Now if you align the car then add or remove weight and do not set the ride height, your numbers will be skewed and your car will ride and handle very differently.
 
fzmax said:
Sorry guys, maybe I'm not explaining this correct.

You measure from the LCA pivot to the ground to set the ride height, this number is in the service manual. You do this before you touch your UCA adjustments. After the ride height, then you align the car. Do this with the motor in, out, big block, slant six it doesn't matter. When you add or remove weight, you set the ride height back to that same number (LCA pivot to the ground) and your caster, camber and toe will be exactly the same.

Now if you align the car then add or remove weight and do not set the ride height, your numbers will be skewed and your car will ride and handle very differently.
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exactly... thats why i said set if up about 1" off bump stop and set... drop weight and re set at 1"...
 
I will tell you the only reason that I am not even considering doing my Barracuda this way is because the 440 will be going in from the bottom....
 
Jim Lusk said:
I will tell you the only reason that I am not even considering doing my Barracuda this way is because the 440 will be going in from the bottom....
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thats how we do the hemi's... better than having to just install the short block...
 
im an alignment tech at my job and would like to say it will be a complete waste of time to make any adjustments without the motor and tranny in the car. every single angle changes once ride height changes. you move camber, your caster is going with it, you move toe ( most of the time) camber is going with it. i would wait til car is running and then set ride height to what ever is desired, than take to alignment shop to and get it all squared away my .02
 
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