So...you say you want to buy an electric car?

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ocdart

Inland Mopars Car Club
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The following article was forwarded to me today by a car club friend. Interesting reading.
Additional things regarding electric cars that most proponents of them don't mention are:
* The cost to generate the electricity used to recharge the batteries whether it's from coal, hydroelectric, etc.
* The carbon footprint of the source of the electricity used to recharge the batteries
* The cost to replace the battery when necessary
* The environmental impact of disposing of the old batteries



Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it This is the first article I’ve ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.

Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they’re being shoved down our throats… glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.

At a neighborhood bbq I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious. If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than 3 houses with a single Tesla. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly overloaded.

This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far
down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS!' and a shrug.

If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It’s enlightening.

Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors … and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine.” Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is
approximately 270 miles.

It will take you 4-1/2 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.

According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned so I looked up what I pay for electricity. I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.

The gasoline powered car costs about $20,000 while the Volt costs $46,000+… so the American Government wants loyal Americans not to do the math, but simply pay three times as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country."
 
That's American sheeple for ya! I like this kind of "green" car!!

Green Vehicles Only.jpg
 
I think I see a flaw in the math:

'I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.'
Didn't I read that to recharge the electric, you need 10 hours? Not 16 ? That makes the charge cost $ 11.16, not $18.56.
They still suck.
 
I can't stand electric cars but I must admit....my duster is a hybrid

It burns both gas AND tires
 
Thanks for taking the time to print this incredible info. I understand every time you charge the batteries it holds less charge. And who is going to buy a used one with a battery replacement looming? I'll stick with internal combustion!!!!!!!!!!!
 
-- No thanks.

Pretty much, X2. "Up here" you not only need heat lots of the year, and headlights, but AC in the summer much of the time. All that stuff takes "more power." So does wading through the snow. LOTS of extra power. I don't relish the thought of driving somewhere and being low on battery, heat, lights, whatever else the thing is low on
 
If you charge an electric vehicle with your home's own solar system maybe it would make more economical sense. But then how do you take a road trip?
 
If you charge an electric vehicle with your home's own solar system maybe it would make more economical sense. But then how do you take a road trip?

Staycation...

While the battery charges....

Then you're ready to go back to work...
 
I think I see a flaw in the math:

'I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 mpg = $0.10 per mile.'
Didn't I read that to recharge the electric, you need 10 hours? Not 16 ? That makes the charge cost $ 11.16, not $18.56.
They still suck.

I agree. Not to mention who the hell pays $1.16/kwh for electricity? That can't be true. Just a quick google search revealed a national average of $0.12/kwh. Different than the stated $1.16 by a whole order of magnitude.
 
Don't tell California...they can use their '8th largest economy' to pay to upgrade their infrastructure after they secede :)
 
There are a couple of flaws in this conversation .

People usually recharge at home after every local trip so the battery is only down about 1/3 and it takes only a few hours to recharge. A good percentage also have solar on the house roof.

Most people also have more then one vehicle.

At this point in time leasing an electric vehicle makes more sense because the technology is developing very fast and the cost is coming down also.

Case in point the Tesla model 3 just delivered the first 30 off the line last Friday . They start at $26,000 for a 70's Dart sized car. Sometime by late 2018 all the preordered Model 3's should be in owners hands.

Going electric is a longterm solution to diminishing fossil fuel in the future.

BTW the the Tesla does not require 75 amp service to charge unless one wants fast charge at home. It can be charged using a 15 amp outlet it just takes longer.

As for taking a cross country trip in an all electric vehicle at this time it can be done with a Tesla by using the Tesla supercharger stations and be back on the road in 30 min.
One can even tow an Airstream with Tesla Model X .
Towing with Electricity and a Model X - Airstream Forums

I have a Kia Soul EV leased for the next 3 years at less then $ 185 / mo. I also have 5k net of solar on my roof. Since last November the solar has made more then I need and the Kia has not impacted my electric bill . The other plus is I haven't had to go to the gas station to fill up every week. That means no standing around while the tank fills in the wind ,rain ,snow or summer heat.

The beauty of this lease is I get to drive a new car and new tech for less then if I bought a gas Kia Soul. BTW it's a lot of fun to smoke most everyone off the line in complete silence save for the tires chirping .

My Kia Soul EV does everything I leased it to do, Running around the valley daily. Oh and the only time I ever put gas in it was in a can for my Dart :)





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Dart Left.jpg
 
There are a couple of flaws in this conversation .

Are you out of your freekin mind???

"People usually recharge at home after every local trip so the battery is only down about 1/3 and it takes only a few hours to recharge. A good percentage also have solar on the house roof."

Say what? How does this make electric green, depending on the source of your power. "A good percentage?" Of what? I doubt 1/10 % of Americans have ANY solar power on any part of their property, other than small panels IE RV etc. Once source claims 1 million Americans had solar "something" in 2016

"Most people also have more then one vehicle.

At this point in time leasing an electric vehicle makes more sense because the technology is developing very fast and the cost is coming down also."


Again, how does having more than one vehicle help anything else "to be green?" Leasing? so what? Leasing vs buying has nothing to do with electric, the same logic applies to vehicles powered by LP, diesel, or pressed banana skins
 
But this right here is the kicker:

"Going electric is a longterm solution to diminishing fossil fuel in the future."

No it is NOT, until and IF absolute sources of "green" electricity come to exist, meaning, solar, wind, etc. So far any green SOURCE of power is way way WAY behind these so called electric vehicles. It's as if Henry Ford invented the car before there was a practical fuel to operate the thing
 
As for taking a cross country trip in an all electric vehicle at this time it can be done with a Tesla by using the Tesla supercharger stations and be back on the road in 30 min.

Just where are these? There sure as hell arent any in this town, wonder if there are ANY in say, South Dakota? I'd bet you money there are few if any actual physical road routes now in places for these "supercharger" outfits, which brings up a completely different point...................Are these stations, these connectors, are they "going to be" standardized, or are we going to have to have a different sized "fuel nozzle" for every make model and whim?
 
A good percentage of EV owners also have solar on their houses that they also charge their EV with.
As the years go by and gas prices rise ( remember just a few years ago when gas hit $5 /gal.) you will see the EV's become more attractive.

BTW I put 5k net solar on my roof 5 years ago and haven't had an electric bill during the fall, winter and spring since and reduced my summer bills . Now that I have an EV it raised my use ever so slightly.

Here in California we produce more Solar power then the utilities will buy so we are giving it to Arizona.

At this time the sun belt states are the leaders in solar and EV's.
As time goes by the rest will follow. It may take until 2040 but it will happen.

How electric is produced and how it will be stored in the future will no doubt change to yet to be invented systems.

But right now it's solar , wind and hydro that are the green sources . Lithium batteries are the prime storage at this time and that will change over time.

As for the used batteries coming out of EV's they are being used as back up power for business and soon for your home as more become available. When they are finally depleted they will be recycled.

The Future is here compared to the 1990's .
 
The Tesla superchargers are for Tesla's only and are along the Interstates about 140 miles apart . They are put in by Tesla and if you have a Model S or X you get free charging from them . If you buy a Model 3 you don't, but you can buy time.

Unfortunately at this time there are several different types of connections making it a bit of trick for other vehicles to charge.

But worse come to worse you can charge at any 120volt 15amp outlet, but that's not practical for a long trip. If you have a 240v 30a or 40a charger with a 50a cord you can use an RV Park or Motel to charge but it will take quite a few hours to charge.

There are several private companies that have chargers located restaurants , motels, business, shopping centers around the country.
 
I came across this Tesla Supercharger Station in Bandon , Oregon on Highway 101.
Talk about Elon Musk putting his money where his mouth is, He is putting in a network of SuperChargers across the country to support the Tesla's .

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Before Henry The automobile was only a rich mans toy.
You do know he worked for Cadillac before he came up with his own brass era rich mans toys.
Henry made the Model T so the masses could afford to own an automobile .
Did you know that the model T would run on any combustible liquid .

Gee Elon made the current rich mans toy with his sports car then the Model S and X.
Now the Model 3 for the masses.
Did you know that you can plug in any electric vehicle into a standard 120 volt 15 amp outlet.

BTW I never said anything about being green it just kind of worked out that way.
I bought solar to reduce my electric bill over the long haul and its worked out well.
 
If you bought a Tesla sports car , a Model S or Model X you get free charging at the Tesla Supercharger network.
If you buy a Model 3 you don't get free charging , however you can purchase time for the Supercharger network when you buy the Model 3.
Here's the rub unless you work next to a supercharger or take a road trip you will mostly charge your Tesla at home .

Again if you have an EV you will do most of your charging at home.
If you take a road trip you'll most likely charge at a Charge Point or Plug Share location and pay for the time or kw used , How much varies but $10 or less.
At this point in time one would have to carefully plan one's road trip .

Take a look at this link about ohmman's experience towing his 22' Airstream with his Tesla Model X. Towing with Electricity and a Model X - Airstream Forums
It will open your eyes about what is possible at this point in time.
 
Do they charge for a charge??? How much???

(From post #19) The Tesla superchargers are for Tesla's only and are along the Interstates about 140 miles apart . They are put in by Tesla and if you have a Model S or X you get free charging from them . If you buy a Model 3 you don't, but you can buy time.
 
That's American sheeple for ya! I like this kind of "green" car!!

View attachment 1715078743
I love this.lol

I remember reading an article that accurately and completely explained how the carbon footprint to manufacture a Prius was more than double that of a H2 Hummer over a 300K mile vehicle life. All the greenies forget where electric comes from, and how much dino fuel is burned building factories, shipping batteries on ocean freighters across oceans, disposing of batteries after a life cycle...ETC.
 
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