So...you say you want to buy an electric car?

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67Dart273 said:
As for taking a cross country trip in an all electric vehicle at this time it can be done with a Tesla by using the Tesla supercharger stations and be back on the road in 30 min.

Just where are these? There sure as hell arent any in this town, wonder if there are ANY in say, South Dakota? I'd bet you money there are few if any actual physical road routes now in places for these "supercharger" outfits, which brings up a completely different point...................Are these stations, these connectors, are they "going to be" standardized, or are we going to have to have a different sized "fuel nozzle" for every make model and whim?
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I wonder also. I drive truck in the upper 2/3s of New York and all of New England. In that whole area I've seen just one charging station for those cars on the major interstates, and that's on Rt 93 in southern New Hampshire at a major rest area. And I've been on a lot of the secondary roads also without seem them. If they are out there, they must be hiding them and only the owners of those cars know where they are!!
 
The goofballs always call electric cars the answer for a problem that doesn't exist, nor did it ever exist.

First off, they are NOT fossil fuels. Crude is not rotting dinosaurs. First lie.

Second, remember peak oil? Another lie. There are now more known reserves of oil in the world than ever. Oil wells are starting to recover and produce oil again. Maybe some Dino's have died in the lately, but I haven't seen them.

As long as we continue to believe lies, this stupidity will continue. Global cooling, global warming, climate change, peak oil all that in my relatively short lifetime.


Ignorance begets ignorance.

Electric cars are WORTHLESS. Just like they were at the turn of the 20th century. Just like steam engines we not better than IC gas burning engines.

One last thing...how many know that gasoline is a by product of cracking and refining crude and was considered a waste product? They used to bleed it off into rivers to get rid of it.
 
GGs66GT said:
The Tesla superchargers are for Tesla's only and are along the Interstates about 140 miles apart . They are put in by Tesla and if you have a Model S or X you get free charging from them . If you buy a Model 3 you don't, but you can buy time.
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Free? Like the $30,000 worth of government subsidies (read "taxpayer money") that Elon Musk gets for every Tesla sold? If this was taken away, he would actually be losing over $14,000 per vehicle and Tesla would implode almost immediately. SOMEONE is paying for the electricity to recharge these cars, and my guess, is that it is WE, the taxpayers.
 
So, What's your daily driver ? Your wife's daily driver ?
How many miles do you put on in your daily drive ?
How would you like to not have to buy fuel for it every week or two ?
How would you like to NOT have to service it every X miles or
do Tune ups, Trans service, cooling system service, exhaust maintenance or brake jobs over a 10 year period ?

What vehicle do you take on vacation ?

Answer these questions honestly .
 
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GGs66GT said:
So, What's your daily driver ? Your wife's daily driver ?
How many miles do you put on in your daily drive ?
How would you like to not have to buy fuel for it every week or two ?
How would you like to NOT have to service it every X miles or
do Tune ups, Trans service, cooling system service, exhaust maintenance or brake jobs over a 10 year period ?

What vehicle to you take on vacation ?

Answer these questions honestly .
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Ok, let's take them one at a time:


So, What's your daily driver ?
My car...

Your wife's daily driver ?
A broom...

How many miles do you put on in your daily drive ?
None, the odometer is stuck...

How would you like to not have to buy fuel for it every week or two ?
That would be great of you, thanks....

How would you like to NOT have to service it every X miles or do Tune ups, Trans service, cooling system service, exhaust maintenance or brake jobs over a 10 year period ?
Yes...

What vehicle to you take on vacation ?
My other car...

Answer these questions honestly .
Did I win???
 
Ok, now research what it takes to make the lithium batteries, transport the materials 1/2 way around the world, manufacture the batteries, ship them 1/2 way around the world, manufacture the cars and ship them, all using freighters that consume ungodly amounts of fossil fuels, and oh yea, the strip mining process to extract the components to make the batteries, all using heavy equipment that is burning fossil fuels, and you can add that all to your "green" equation!! Then tell me how green these cars are!!
 
My point is answer the questions honestly, NOT like the two above .

This has NOTHING to do with being Green or forcing something on you.
It is for you to ASSESS how you use your current vehicles .

Then we'll discuss what it costs to operate and maintain your daily drivers.

NOT your hot rods, pick up trucks or any other vehicles . JUST your go to everyday driver.
 
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GGs66GT said:
My point is answer the questions honestly, NOT like the two above .

This has NOTHING to do with being Green or forcing something on you.
It is for you to ASSESS how you use your current vehicles .

Then we'll discuss what it costs to operate and maintain your daily drivers.

NOT your hot rods, pick up trucks or any other vehicles . JUST your go to everyday driver.
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My every day driver is my hotrod. 68 fastback. I feel that you are getting rather condescending towards those of us who cannot afford all of the things you seem to value as important. You are talking down towards everyone here who is not as green as you are. Not everyone here can afford more than one car like you can. Not everyone here can put solar up where they live. Not everyone here even owns their home. Your conceit, sir, is astounding.
 
My daily driver is a 2012 Ram pickup, which I use everyday to haul lumber, tools, cars, heavy equipment, etc!!...

My wife's daily driver is an 06 Subaru Forester, although she often drives our 2012 Ford E350 van, handicap accessible for use to haul Nella around to her many appointments!

The fuel I buy every week is the cost of doing business for my truck, and also to get Nella where she needs to go!

I would love to not have to maintain vehicles for a 10 year period, but that is just not realistic no matter what vehicle you drive!

When in vacation, we almost always take the van!

Now, tell me how an electric car fits into my needs??? Are they going to make a full sized van capable of towing a 30' camper, or a truck capable of hauling a couple 1000# worth of materials and equipment? I doubt it! I live in a reality based world, and I don't foresee an electric car as being anything other than another fad that the govt is cramming down our throats!!

Rewind to just a few years ago during the e85 based fuel debacle, how did that turn out!! A lot of mandates and rules without a single thought as to how those rules could not possibly be followed! We simply could not grow enough corn to feed people, animals, and fuel tanks, but gee, nobody thought of that now did they?? Remember of course that the govt spends waaay too much $$$ on themselves, and stupid **** like investigating the Russian involvement in our election, to ever put up the billions of dollars to put solar energy into every single place that a charging station would need to be! And of course, because there's no money in it for big business or the govt, they really don't want to!! Oh, I guess they didn't think of that either!!
 
GGs66GT said:
I came across this Tesla Supercharger Station in Bandon , Oregon on Highway 101.
Talk about Elon Musk putting his money where his mouth is, He is putting in a network of SuperChargers across the country to support the Tesla's .
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As I eluded to previously two things (at least) wrong with this:

1....It is NOT Musk's money.......It is Kook-Aid high investors and GOVERNMENT money. Musk had not done one damn thing to make one cent of profit or pay back investors

2....So, already, we have the Beta/ VHS problem. "We" did not force a US or world standard for electric car chargers..........hell we already have US electrical codes on various amperage 240V connectors for amperages from 20 to ??? and for twist lock, 3-4 terminal, and for RV and other uses, why not FORCE an SAE standard for "electric vehicle chargers?"
 
THERE HAS TO BE SEVERAL things done before I would consider ANY bunny wabbit powawed caw

1......GREEN charging sources, wind, solar, etc

2......Standardized battery packs that can be quickly swapped, leased, bought, sold, recycled. Across the brands standard

3......Standardized charging stations, or at least mandate that ALL and ANY charging station make allowances for "those other brands"

4......Personally I think full electric is a completely STUPID idea and will never be very practical. Hybrid makes more sense, but it is gonna hafta be something a lot more exciting than a God Damn Pree ***

Speaking of which here is the Pree *** / Camper operational pre production prototype

PreeAssPrototype.jpg
 
Ottmundr , Thanks for your response . I'm not talking down to anyone here.
I understand that some here only have 1 vehicle .

I should have been more clear to have directed my question to only those that have more then one vehicle and more then one person driving them.

cosgig , Thanks for you response . The Subaru could be replaced when the time comes to replace it with an all electric vehicle .

Your work truck at this time is perfect for what you do today.
BTW There is an electric pickup under development right now and may be ready in a few years.
An all electric van could easily follow.

As for standardizing the charging, after the GM EV1 induction paddle went away with the car.
There was talk of using a floor mounted induction charging system , so far it's only being used for recharging Electric city busses at the layover stop on their route and gives enough charge in 15 minutes to run the loop again.

In 2001 the s.a.e. came up with a standard with one kind of configuration but in 2010 they came up with a new standard with a different configuration and ability to handle more power and 110v & 220v A/C charging.
Meanwhile Tesla came up with it's exclusive system.
Also there is the D/C fast charging system configuration.

As improvements come along to the onboard charge controllers in the EV they can be charged harder and faster without damage to the battery pack.

At some point we may see drive over induction charging become the standard.

In the meantime there are several different connections .

For daily driving one will charge at home with to 15a 120v charger the manufacture supplies with the vehicle. If one wants to speed up the charge time at home one can install a 240v 30a or 45a charger for $400-800. This would be for someone who makes several long runs from home a day.

BTW the only scheduled maintenance for my Kia Soul EV is tire rotation.
What about brakes ? It has regenerative braking that slows the car down when you let off the accelerator pedal when in 'B' mode the also puts energy back into the battery pack.
I use this mode exclusively . I rarely use the brakes above 15 mph. I love the 1 pedal driving.

Seriously please answer the questions in post #30 only if you have multiple vehicles and drivers . Lets not go off track into the weeds about the pros and cons of EV's.
 
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GGs66GT said:
Lets not go off track into the weeds about the pros and cons of EV's.
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WHY NOT??? That is the point of why these should or should not be manufactured / sold/ used/ clogging up the roads
 
67Dart273 , MY POINT is for members here to ASSESS how they use there vehicles .

I DON'T need or want to get into EV's replacing every vehicle on the road.

Once I get enough info to my question without any other clutter like yours, then I'll go on to my next question.

Again the questions in post#30 is for members with more then one vehicle and operator .
Please answer honestly and without other comments about EV's, Thank you.
 
So, What's your daily driver ? '17 Ford Fusion Sport AWD. Any D.D. I have must be AWD. We have bad winters. Your wife's daily driver ? What wife?
How many miles do you put on in your daily drive ? 70 to 100 miles.
How would you like to not have to buy fuel for it every week or two ? O.K.
How would you like to NOT have to service it every X miles or
do Tune ups, Trans service, cooling system service, exhaust maintenance or brake jobs over a 10 year period ? O.K.

What vehicle do you take on vacation ? '17 Ford Fusion Sport AWD
 
Sorry, I can't come over for a couple hours, my car is charging. Wait, I live in Michigan, we might not see the sun for 5 days in a row, my solar is in trouble. And how does being electric prevent wear to the steering components, suspension, struts and whatever passes for bearings on the driveline, so so much for maintenance free. And what abut resale when the batteries are about done. EV car for sale, sometime in the next 5000 miles will need a new $5000 battery pack, please make offer. And what are the chances I can do performance modifications? And btw what kind of lifespan do the rest of the electronics have? I'm into antique and collectable cars which is why I'm on FABO and I don't see an EV lasting 25 to 50 years.
 
I sure enjoyed this article about driving a Tesla and not being able to find a charging station:

We took a Tesla Model S on a road trip and learned the hard way how it's different from every other car

I've always contended that if I have to charge it while at work in order to get home, it's worthless. Needs a 60 mile range on an average day, 120 if I got to the wrecking yard after work (or anywhere else for that matter). Might as well buy a commuter car for half the price and still the same economy (or better) of an EV.

EV's are like the plea in the paper to stop hunting; buy your meat in the supermarket where no animals are harmed. Pretending electricity is free is a lie, despite things like solar. Can't have have dams because they kill the fish. Wind is joke as I understand it because the cost of maintenance far out ways any benefits. Burn coal or use nuclear energy and pretend it's green because you can't see the power plant. Ignore the damage caused by digging the materials to build the batteries. It all costs, regardless of what is it, so stop pretending that it's "free".
 
So, What's your daily driver ? 2015 honda fit usually get 36mpg. 36,000 miles in two years on it..

Your wife's daily driver ? 2016 subaru outbak 29,000 miles in just under 2 years

How many miles do you put on in your daily drive ? 80 mile round trip to work 14 days a month.. then whatever running i do at home.
the subaru during summer months does a ton of running around.

How would you like to not have to buy fuel for it every week or two ? be nice.

How would you like to NOT have to service it every X miles or
do Tune ups, Trans service, cooling system service, exhaust maintenance or brake jobs over a 10 year period ? be nice though so far all our cars have needed is oil changes and tire rotations.. honda had an air filter and cabin filter at 30k.

What vehicle do you take on vacation ? the subaru 90% of the time..
 
Don't have a problem if someone wants to build an electric hotrod or swap an electric motor into a Duster. Not my thing, but don't expect everyone to like the same stuff. I think it's cool figuring stuff out and if building an electric car is yours, more power to you.

My issue is people that seem to think an electric car is the savior of the world. The reality is, electric cars are the governments tactic to force the development of the technology regardless of any other options. Follow the money, there is way to much government involvement to ignore. Remove the subsidies and tax breaks and it stops being even remotely viable.

Just wait until they institute a "fee" for driving an IC car. I'm sure they will paint it as the price you pay to pollute, but the reality is it will be to help pay for the EV's and support structure because they can't survive on their own merits.
 
Ouch. Can only imagine what it would cost to charge that thing up here with Avistas "bend over and take it like a man" rates.
 
69conv said:
Sorry, I can't come over for a couple hours, my car is charging. Wait, I live in Michigan, we might not see the sun for 5 days in a row, my solar is in trouble. And how does being electric prevent wear to the steering components, suspension, struts and whatever passes for bearings on the driveline, so so much for maintenance free. And what abut resale when the batteries are about done. EV car for sale, sometime in the next 5000 miles will need a new $5000 battery pack, please make offer. And what are the chances I can do performance modifications? And btw what kind of lifespan do the rest of the electronics have? I'm into antique and collectable cars which is why I'm on FABO and I don't see an EV lasting 25 to 50 years.
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^^^^this!!! im a forklift mechanic at my work, all electric pallet jacks, reach trucks, everything.... just cause a vehicle is electric doesnt mean things dont go wrong, not to mention the 1k lb+ batteries only last a few years until they **** out and need replaced
 
I agree with Dion in that i am suspicious of the govt or 1% involvement with big money ideas. As far as being "green", nickel mining causes serious issues as far as planet destruction. There is a price to pay for most things. As far as a crystal ball telling us how the decisions we make now will affect us in the future, well that is a point that can be argued. My issue is with the WAY people discuss things, be respectable, try to not be defensive. Your way is NOT the only way and if you are unable to express yourself like an adult then be prepared to be judged (silently or overtly) like a child.
 
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