Some Opinions/Advice on Parts Pickin': 360 Roller

[Dodge72]

I bit the bullet and I took my '92 360 LA roller block to the machine shop to be cleaned, fluxed, hone and more than likely bore out. Providing that there's nothing wrong with the block (Fingers crossed), I've made up a small list of what I'd like to shoot for. Mind you I'm not looking for anything crazy or exotic, just a few goodies to enjoy before considering major upgrades. What I have in mind already:

'92 360 factory hyd. roller block.
Factory 308 heads w/ 70 cc chambers. (Measured yesterday)
Speed-Pro H116CP Pistons
Speed-Pro E251K Moly-Facing Rings
Delta Cam Re-Grind #BP568I: 206int-203ex dur. @ .050", .447" int/.445"ex lift, centerline is 108 int/117ex.
Fel-Pro 8553PT Blue Head Gaskets
Edelbrock Performer Intake
Edelbrock 600 1406
904 Trans, stock
68-70 HP 340 Manifolds
2.25" Dual Exhaust


Based on some "ballpark" numbers and my head cc measurement, it seems as though I should be in the 9-9.4:1 static compression range depending on how far down pistons sit and actual compression of gaskets, great. I should be in the safe range for I hope mid-grade (I'll have to calc. DCR.). I was considering the lower-priced H405CP pistons but I would have only ended up with 8.3:1 compression and for about $150 more it should be worth it (??).

I've never put together an engine besides just stock parts so hopefully my combo looks okay. Definitely not looking for major power, I am coming from a stock slant six lol. Building mainly for cruising, so bottom end/mid range is the goal. I know I will probably need shorter and most likely new valve springs (?). I've been told Hughes 1110's will be good. How do I search for valve springs? I see on the Hughes they list different pressures based on cam lift. What kind of pressures am I looking for? Any and all help is much appreciated, I've learned a lot from researching here!

 

[318willrun]

• I like the hughes 1110 springs, good choice. However, your aftermarket cam should have a reference for springs, check that out.
• I don't understand having more lift and duration on the intake side, and the centerlines apart that much as well.... not familiar with that cam, but that raises a question to me.
• Re-grind cams will likely need new pushrods if you are running non-adjustable rockers
• Means you are not looking for the "best performance" package, I'll say 'ok' to the intake/carb.
• I think overall, you picked well......

 

[64mopar]

What is the ultimate goal?
Economy?
Performance?
Budget?
Personally I would up the cam,bump the compression to the 9.8 to 10.3 range(still pump gas safe by far and very drivable),drop in some headers.
As far as spring pressure,that is relative to the cam.

 

[Dodge72]

• I like the hughes 1110 springs, good choice. However, your aftermarket cam should have a reference for springs, check that out.
• I don't understand having more lift and duration on the intake side, and the centerlines apart that much as well.... not familiar with that cam, but that raises a question to me.
• Re-grind cams will likely need new pushrods if you are running non-adjustable rockers
• Means you are not looking for the "best performance" package, I'll say 'ok' to the intake/carb.
• I think overall, you picked well......

I will have to call Delta Cam (or maybe pay them a visit tomorrow) to see if they have recommendations as far as valve springs go. I'll also see if they can give me any more information on the cam as well, I went in and told them I was looking for bottom end to mid-range with my engine and they handed me this one they had on the shelf already ground. And yes, not looking for all out performance at the moment. Intake and carb may be upgraded at a later time when I have more money lol. Thanks!

 

[Dodge72]

What is the ultimate goal?
Economy?
Performance?
Budget?
Personally I would up the cam,bump the compression to the 9.8 to 10.3 range(still pump gas safe by far and very drivable),drop in some headers.
As far as spring pressure,that is relative to the cam.

The goal was a mixture of budget constraints and a non-fussy engine that I can get in and drive. More performance can come later when I have more time and money.

 

[AJ/FormS]

If you have an eye on a future cam increase, then you need to consider what will happen to your cylinder pressure at that time. Cuz if it dips too low, you will have a dog ,out of the gate, with no cheap fix. Now is the time to contemplate that and plan ahead.
As to cam,You can go at least two sizes bigger before fuel economy begins to go south. But without an increase in compression ratio, it will lose pressure and require a higher stall speed to get the low-rpm performance back. And it all kindof hinges on what gears you want to, need to, or are willing to run.

 

[Dodge72]

If you have an eye on a future cam increase, then you need to consider what will happen to your cylinder pressure at that time. Cuz if it dips too low, you will have a dog ,out of the gate, with no cheap fix. Now is the time to contemplate that and plan ahead.
As to cam,You can go at least two sizes bigger before fuel economy begins to go south. But without an increase in compression ratio, it will lose pressure and require a higher stall speed to get the low-rpm performance back. And it all kindof hinges on what gears you want to, need to, or are willing to run.

A cam upgrade probably won't happen for a few years, but I do agree on getting things prepped for it just in case. How high of a compression were you thinking? As far as gearing goes, I have 3.23's. I'd sooner upgrade my gears to 3.55's or a bit higher before I upgrade the cam again. But even that still won't happen for a while.

 

[rumblefish360]

I did a similar thing. Same slugs. I upgraded the Hyd. roller cam a bit to a Comp Cams Hyd. roller, 224/230- mid .500’s for lift on a 110. The cam still works in the cruise range with the 3.55’s & 26 inch tire.

Recent upgrades are the CNC aluminum heads.

For your build, I dislike your cam. Screw the deveined and go straight to a larger one for the future 3.55 gear set. To avoid a expensive converter change, yield the duration @.050 to 218 on the intake.

Shorter springs? I don’t know how you came up with that, but no! The same valve spring height will do just fine. Just get the correct spring for the cam and it’s lift. You’ll be good to go.

 

[RustyRatRod]

That's a tiny little grind. I would go for something like 218/224 @ .050 on a 110, but that's just me.

 

[rumblefish360]

That's a tiny little grind. I would go for something like 218/224 @ .050 on a 110, but that's just me.

That’s what I’m talking about right there!
Stock converter and even 3.23 gears! GTG!

 

[Dodge72]

Shorter springs was a mistype lol, I was thinking about pushrods but I guess I typed out faster than my thoughts...

I'll see what I can do with the cam. I've already got a ground one, doubt it can be ground again without adding to the lobes, or maybe they'll trade if they have another on the shelf? Not sure just yet. But thank you for the option, it'll give me a direction to go to when contacting them again.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Shorter springs was a mistype lol, I was thinking about pushrods but I guess I typed out faster than my thoughts...

I'll see what I can do with the cam. I've already got a ground one, doubt it can be ground again without adding to the lobes, or maybe they'll trade if they have another on the shelf? Not sure just yet. But thank you for the option, it'll g

YEah the one you have is barely above stock. barely.

 

[rumblefish360]

I'll see what I can do with the cam.....
or maybe they'll trade if they have another on the shelf?

They will not trade cams. For sure.

 

[AJ/FormS]

I did a similar thing. Same slugs. I upgraded the Hyd. roller cam a bit to a Comp Cams Hyd. roller, 224/230- mid .500’s for lift on a 110. The cam still works in the cruise range with the 3.55’s & 26 inch tire.

I ran the Hughes FlatTappetHydraulic version of that 224/230/110 cam, and I found it to be an awesome choice with very high compression, and with a tight-Q; I was never disappointed.
As a roller tho, I suspect with the long acceleration ramps, it might be a lil difficult to optimize the cylinder pressure with iron heads, and it might be a lil hard on gas around town.
Wiki says Mason county elevation varies about 2000 ft, so that is a bit of a problem.
What I mean is if you wanted to run your 360 in the future with reasonable pressure, but install a two sizes smaller cam today, then todays pressure will be excessive. But if you optimize for todays cam, the pressure will be sub-optimal for later. To overcome these things will require more than a gasket swap. Ima thinking if you optimize for todays cam, then, a higher stall TC and bigger gears will need to be figured into the later mix.
At 100 ft elevation;Todays cam might want only 9.4Scr,but at 2000ft, it will want 9.9.
whereas the 224/110 might want 9.9/10.4; and in either case, changing altitudes will be tricky.
So in your case..... if you need to be exploring those altitude differences,I would highly recommend to chose something up the middle and go easy on the pressure, and not think about changing cams ...... unless you also change the Scr at that later time.
However, if all your travels revolve around the same altitude , well then you have more options.

 

[Mopar44134]

while you have the motor apart change the exhaust valves. I camed a 1990 360 with 308 heads, 480 lift. Retainers smashed the valve stem seals. Dodge changed the height of the retainer groove moving the closer to the head.

 

[TrailBeast]

Shorter springs was a mistype lol, I was thinking about pushrods but I guess I typed out faster than my thoughts...

I'll see what I can do with the cam. I've already got a ground one, doubt it can be ground again without adding to the lobes, or maybe they'll trade if they have another on the shelf? Not sure just yet. But thank you for the option, it'll give me a direction to go to when contacting them again.

I am running almost exactly the same equipment you have in mind except for the cam, and I agree that the one you have now isn't enough to even bother changing from a stock one.
I have a stock bottom 5.9 Magnum with about the same compression you have.
The cam is 214/224 @50 with .512 total lift and 110 lobe center. (Almost exactly what Rusty Rat Rod suggested.)
It is a mild mid range torque cam from Oregon Cam Grinders, and cost me right at 125 bucks.
I am running the stock roller lifters and stock rocker gear.
It has a very light cam idle and with my OD trans I get 25mpg at 80mph on the open road.


Hughes 1110 springs are good for a cam in these ranges and they have a retainer and locks kit that fits these springs that allows more lift without hitting the seals.

My goals and limitations at the time I built this motor were the same as yours are now, and that was a few years ago.
The thing has run flawlessly for years without any changes or repairs needed.

 

[rumblefish360]

I ran the Hughes FlatTappetHydraulic version of that 224/230/110 cam, and I found it to be an awesome choice with very high compression, and with a tight-Q; I was never disappointed.
As a roller tho, I suspect with the long acceleration ramps, it might be a lil difficult to optimize the cylinder pressure with iron heads,

Hey AJ, FWIW, I’m running zero deck flat tops, ported aluminum heads, TTI stem to stern.
What compression ratio did you run it at and quench distance?

 

[AJ/FormS]

The Hughes 223/230/110 ran with KB107s out of the holes an average of .005, with the Fellpro.039s, and a total chamber volume of 63+8.8+5 -1= 75.8 with a bore of 4.045, for an Scr of 10.94. The Q was .034 average. This thing made over 185psi on my MacTools gauge, and with OOTB Eddies, ran on 87E10, 100% of the time.

I also run with TTIs and TTI full-length 3" duals. I ran this combo a lot of different ways;
I ran it with almost every different rear gear from 2.76 to 5.13, and with almost every ratio A833 Chrysler ever made, and finally with an A833od box GVOD; splitting gears. (Only the Commando 3.09 escaped install on account of; A) I never needed it and, B) I didn't own one.)
That combo was fine with a starter of 3.23x2.66, but was way more fun with 3.55x3.09 and splitting gears, and double overdrive. She also took the 2.76s well, with the clutch.
I ran her with the cast iron 340 spreadbore intake/and the big TQ, also with an Xcellerator/AVS, or TQ on an adapter, and finally the AirGap . On the AG has been the 600Holley, the 780Vsec Holley and finally the 750DP-my favorite. And she finally got fresh air on that one.
The cam was backwards, forwards ,inside out ,and back to 104 where it stayed.
She ran DC aluminum adjustable valve gear, DC cut to length pushrods, (1/2turn preload), and Hughes HD lifters, and Hughes springs, 1111s, IIRC.

I tracked this combo; one run. With; 3.55s a standard box, 245/60-14s and at 3650 pounds@900ft, she went 106 and change,sucking underhood HOT air. I think that was with the first intake; the factory C.I. and TQ.
Yes ,I was
shifting at 7000,lol, and she trapped in third gear.
I know; more than you asked,lol

Of the three iterations my engine has gone thru, the above was my favorite.
I won't tell you the fantastic fuel mileage this thing got with double overdrive; cuz nobody believes it anyhow. Get yourself a 1.97 rear gear, and a cruise specific carb ( I used a Holley 600 for the small primaries) and see what you can get.
With ported heads, yours has gotta be fantastic. I would be interested to see a power curve just for the heck of it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

....and all of this is helping the OP how?

 

[rumblefish360]

Who?

 

[AJ/FormS]

My post was about 8 inches. And OP now has a fantastic recipe, that at least two guys have brought to life.....Your half-liner took up half as much............And now, my rebuttal took another 4 inches.
How many rounds can we take this to?

 

[rumblefish360]

Stop talking about your inches!!!

 

[AJ/FormS]

Delta Cam Re-Grind #BP568I: 206int-203ex dur. @ .050", .447" int/.445"ex lift, centerline is 108 int/117ex.

108 plus 117, over 2 =112.5LSA and I don't like 112.5 on any streeter.
Here's why
Your lil cam is gonna power-peak at about 4600,so with the 112.5Lsa, all done by ~5000. Which with 3.23s and 27" tires is ~48 mph in first gear. At the 1-2 shift, 5000 will become 2950, and yur done. 60 will be about 3700, so the engine is just coming on the cam. So really your contest ends at about 4800/46mph. So, IMO, there is no good reason to run a wide LSA cam,none; it just throws away cylinder pressure and with it, peak power. If you have lots of pressure and just need to dump some, ok, I get that; but I doubt your combo will make too much pressure. I wouldn't go that route.

Course you are not interested in power right. As evidenced by the iron manifolds. Ok I get that too.
But you could still have a lil fun.
But before you throw that Delta away, I highly recommend to wait until your exact compression ratio is known.

 

[Dodge72]

Great engines discussed here. I'll have to save them for when I end up doing another possibly with more thought and hopefully with more knowledge and understanding of engine builds. So much to learn!

AJ, thank you for the info on the cam: it's that type of info I'm trying to learn about through all of this. Very helpful on LSAs.

Right now I'm not all about super duper power : I previously ran a 225 with a 904 that slipped in second and I was very happy with that lol. It's really more about getting my car up and running again so I can enjoy it. Changed directions due to bad luck with slant blocks and here I am converting to small block that I had in the garage. As of right now I did ballpark numbers just to get an idea, and with any luck my block should be good from the machine shop by next week. I'll be able to measure actual numbers in the block then with pistons when those get ordered. I could play with head gasket thickness and maybe getting heads milled for even higher compression (or consider a different cam for the price) but I am playing with a budget and still have a few things to get. Definitely things to consider. See if I can. Being a college student sucks sometimes lol. Thank you guys!

 

[Wyrmrider]

His cam is about 10 degrees larger than a stock 360 roller cam at .050
his is more like (a little less than) the magnum RT cam or the popular "sausage" regrind
no idea what the seat timing difference is but he should be fine for his build without changing a bunch of other parts, gears, converter, etc