I farted. Maybe that will help.
Starter clicks using the key, engine starts by jumpering the relay
- Thread starter Righty Tighty
- Start date
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I mentioned it above that I’m certain it’s the starter, but that might be irrelevant now because the clicking went away and now nothings happens when I turn the key. No click, no nothing.
I’ve been trying that nonstop to no avail.
I’ve tried that, nothing at all happens.
Help me understand how using a remote starter is different than using a screwdriver between the battery post and solenoid terminal. The diagram on the relay shows that it’s a switched connection, and maybe I’m wrong but using a screwdriver essentially closes the switch, completing the circuit.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
A remote switch on Mopars generally just replaces the screwdriver, BUT you can use it in a second way to test the coil circuit
So using a screwdriver cranks?
Now test the relay. Hook one clip of the remote switch (or a jumper wire) to the terminal of the relay after you remove the yellow(?) start wire. Hook the other end to battery OR to the big relay stud. Does it crank? NO?
Now test the ground end of the circuit ---the NSS switch circuit--by jumpering a screwdriver or jumper wire from the terminal on the relay where the NSS wire connects --jumper that to ground and press our remote button. Relay should activate and crank the engine
If it does, relay is OK and you have a wiring problem
If not relay is likely bad
So using a screwdriver cranks?
Now test the relay. Hook one clip of the remote switch (or a jumper wire) to the terminal of the relay after you remove the yellow(?) start wire. Hook the other end to battery OR to the big relay stud. Does it crank? NO?
Now test the ground end of the circuit ---the NSS switch circuit--by jumpering a screwdriver or jumper wire from the terminal on the relay where the NSS wire connects --jumper that to ground and press our remote button. Relay should activate and crank the engine
If it does, relay is OK and you have a wiring problem
If not relay is likely bad
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Step by step how it works
Start relay coil/ electromagent AKA the two small push on terminals
1...NSS switch must be made which grounds the NSS wire, it connects to one push on relay coil terminal
2...Remaining relay push-on terminl is start wire, so key must be supplying power in start, that power must be coming through the bulkhead terminal, and must be comiing through the seat belt interlock if installed, and to the relay terminal, through the relay, and back to ground through the start switch
3....This pulls the relay in , closing the two contacts which causes the big "square" terminal to come alive, sending power to the starter solenoid.
Start relay coil/ electromagent AKA the two small push on terminals
1...NSS switch must be made which grounds the NSS wire, it connects to one push on relay coil terminal
2...Remaining relay push-on terminl is start wire, so key must be supplying power in start, that power must be coming through the bulkhead terminal, and must be comiing through the seat belt interlock if installed, and to the relay terminal, through the relay, and back to ground through the start switch
3....This pulls the relay in , closing the two contacts which causes the big "square" terminal to come alive, sending power to the starter solenoid.
New development! Starts with the turn signal engaged but won’t stay running… see the video.
I’m sorry, Del, was typing/uploading while you were sending replies to the thread.
If it starts but doesnt run when the key is let off, its not getting Ign 2 power. I have no idea what could be going on with the turn signal affecting it. Look at the base of the column for a long flat connector. Check that for burnt wire, wiggle it around and try starting again. Pay close attention to the yellow wire, it likes to burn.
If the car has a ballast resistor, check that. Engine dying when the key is let off is an indication that the ballast is bad.
If the car has a ballast resistor, check that. Engine dying when the key is let off is an indication that the ballast is bad.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine what the TS switch would do to cause this, unless you have such as a loose terminal in/ at the ignition switch, or along those harnesses in the column, such that moving the lever "wiggles" something somehow
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Not getting ign1 "run" power. Ign1 "run" is hot from the key in "run" and feeds the ballast, the ECU, alternator field, VR, etc
Ign2 is hot in "start" and is the resistor bypass circuit
You may have already figured this out but.
When you use a screwdriver between the battery terminal and the Sol terminal (red) you are bypassing the starter relay and not testing the starter relay for functionality.
When you jumper from the batt terminal to the I (Ignition, IGN 2 whatever you want to call it) terminal (Green) you are bypassing the ignition switch but testing the starter relay for functionality.
As to why it will start when the turn signal is on, I would assume you or someone has removed wires from the steering column connectors and put them back incorrectly.
Phreakish
Well-Known Member
I've noticed when the second small ground wire from my battery to the core support on my 72 is disconnected, and on my 83 pickup, I get strange behavior like that involves the turn signals.
I think you said the big negative to the block is fine and clean. What about that smaller one that usually grounds near the radiator?
I had a dead short caused by my clutch linkage which melted that wire at one point and I played hell finding it because it's not very long and isn't in a place my eyes land often when looking around under the hood..
Just a thought in case it helps.
I think you said the big negative to the block is fine and clean. What about that smaller one that usually grounds near the radiator?
I had a dead short caused by my clutch linkage which melted that wire at one point and I played hell finding it because it's not very long and isn't in a place my eyes land often when looking around under the hood..
Just a thought in case it helps.
That makes sense now, thank you.
It's funny you mention that small ground wire, because ever since I bought the car, I noticed that small ground was cut right at the post, so that ground is nonexistent. I'll fix that next time I'm under the hood.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Not trying to lecture, but it didn't occur that was important? We all should keep in mind, that, whether Mopar, GM, or Ford, those guys did NOT SPEND A DIME (or a nickel!!!) on something that was NOT required to make a vehicle operate.
I recommend a better ground. Your engine, where LA or B/RB, has at least one bolt hole on the end of the head. Get a short bolt, make sure it does not bottom, and bolt a Ford style "starter cable" AKA an eyelet to eyelet cable--from the head to the firewall. Sometimes the master cylinder studs work for that. Otherwise, find a spot on firewall, drill through, scrape clean, and bolt the cable to the firewall.
Also some these girls had 1 or 2 small grounding flex cables from the block to the firewall.
I respect your opinion a lot, and I deserve a little bit of a lecture when I do stupid things like ignoring problems like that missing ground.
I do have a braided style ground strap going from the rear of the passenger side head to the firewall. However, the small ground wire on the battery cable is missing.
I’ve been replacing wiring as I can afford it, but in the meantime I think it would behoove me to at least go through and make sure I’ve got good grounds and connections.
The ground wire on the radiator support near the battery is typically for the turn signals. Without it the TS wont work.
And that is the small ground wire coming from the battery to the radiator support?
Did the key ever start the car correctly?
If so what did you do to the wiring since then.
As for grounds....
Thru the years that's have been changs, but in 67 for example.
There was 1 heavy guage wire from the battery negative to the intake or front of head / block.
Then the braded wire from the passanger side rear top of intake (by diston SB) to the firewall. Later years added a ground from the batt neg to the core support. And maybe others.
Yes, the key started the car fine until several months ago. I haven’t been driving the car much, so I hadn’t been worrying about it.
I didn’t make any changes just prior to the problem arising, but changes I’ve made have been adding a new engine harness, new starter solenoid (because I thought the old one was bad, turns out it wasn’t), new wire from the bulkhead to the battery post on the solenoid, new ignition switch (after this problem started). That’s really about all I can think of that would be relevant.
I will say that the problem came on gradually, and I could get it to start with the key by jiggling the wires under the dash at the steering column. A couple months back, I pulled the steering wheel to replace the ignition switch, and checked the wiring for any damage - couldn’t find any.
I didn’t make any changes just prior to the problem arising, but changes I’ve made have been adding a new engine harness, new starter solenoid (because I thought the old one was bad, turns out it wasn’t), new wire from the bulkhead to the battery post on the solenoid, new ignition switch (after this problem started). That’s really about all I can think of that would be relevant.
I will say that the problem came on gradually, and I could get it to start with the key by jiggling the wires under the dash at the steering column. A couple months back, I pulled the steering wheel to replace the ignition switch, and checked the wiring for any damage - couldn’t find any.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Hard to keep track of what you have or not done. I tend to "jerry rig" all kinds of nonsense. At this point..........
1...Keep the "path" of the key / start/ relay coil/ NSS path in mind. for the relay to pull in and activate you need three things:
A...A good relay of course
B...A ground through the NSS switch to the relay
C..."Start" signal on the yellow wire at the relay
So maybe obtain two 12V test lamp probes, or MAKE some probes, even small nails--solder scrap wire to small brads or even small sheet rock screws. jam one into each of the two "push on" terminals at the start relay. When twisting the key, the "start" wire should light with power, and the NSS switch should NOT light. If you put the shifter in gear (D, R, etc) both lights should light and it should not engage.
If (1) checks out and or you can hear the light click of the relay, and it won't crank, double/ triple check the starter / solenoid circuit--the big wire from the "square" screw terminal on the relay down to the solenoind. Try once again bypassing that and confirm the starter will crank right after the key did not
Sometimes, even on simple circuits, it helps to draw out that section so you know what all /where all it goes.
1...Keep the "path" of the key / start/ relay coil/ NSS path in mind. for the relay to pull in and activate you need three things:
A...A good relay of course
B...A ground through the NSS switch to the relay
C..."Start" signal on the yellow wire at the relay
So maybe obtain two 12V test lamp probes, or MAKE some probes, even small nails--solder scrap wire to small brads or even small sheet rock screws. jam one into each of the two "push on" terminals at the start relay. When twisting the key, the "start" wire should light with power, and the NSS switch should NOT light. If you put the shifter in gear (D, R, etc) both lights should light and it should not engage.
If (1) checks out and or you can hear the light click of the relay, and it won't crank, double/ triple check the starter / solenoid circuit--the big wire from the "square" screw terminal on the relay down to the solenoind. Try once again bypassing that and confirm the starter will crank right after the key did not
Sometimes, even on simple circuits, it helps to draw out that section so you know what all /where all it goes.
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