still having problems, need advice please

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brian6pac said:
FWIW never do a resistance check with power on the circuit it will give you a false reading. I like to disconnect the battery if I am doing resistance checks on any wires.
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thanks for the info Brian, can you expand on that? as in a 'how to'? thanks for the input
 
iScamp said:
That is often true with digital volt meters. However, to do the test just described, the ignition switch will have to be "on" for the regulator to sense something. This is where an analog meter works or a test light.

Could disconnect both F1 and F2 wires. Probe those wires with a test light. The light should burn brightly. Seems a lot of people don't use test lights, anymore. Maybe I should have asked if the OP has one?
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Yes, I do have a test light. is this a better/safer way to do the test? but it won't give me a high reading if it's bad, or am I missing something?
 
The bulkhead connector is a prime source for poor connections.
Bolting the two ammeter leads together (clean terminal ends) should do just fine.
 
oldmusclelover said:
Yes, I do have a test light. is this a better/safer way to do the test? but it won't give me a high reading if it's bad, or am I missing something?
Click to expand...

Test light is a little easier to work with than meter probe ends. No chance of frying your meter, either.

No, it won't give you a high reading. But, all you're looking for is a bright light.
Probe the battery posts, note the brightness of the light. Probe F1 and F2 and note if the brightness is about the same. Same brightness or so, means the regulator is trying to apply a charge but there is an alternator problem.
 
iScamp said:
The bulkhead connector is a prime source for poor connections.
Bolting the two ammeter leads together (clean terminal ends) should do just fine.
Click to expand...
about to jump into it and do some tests, and have now moved the laptop out here in the garage (bad battery, so it has to be plugged in), so I can keep in touch easier. I cleaned the bulkhead male terminals one by one (removed, cleaned, replaced), maybe I need to do this to the female. I ran small brushes in them when I cleaned, but that may not have been enough. I will clean them again and clean the ignition switch spades and female just as a good measure before doing tests. hope you are faring well from the storms, saw some of it on the news, looked pretty rough.
 
oldmusclelover said:
about to jump into it and do some tests, and have now moved the laptop out here in the garage (bad battery, so it has to be plugged in), so I can keep in touch easier. I cleaned the bulkhead male terminals one by one (removed, cleaned, replaced), maybe I need to do this to the female. I ran small brushes in them when I cleaned, but that may not have been enough. I will clean them again and clean the ignition switch spades and female just as a good measure before doing tests. hope you are faring well from the storms, saw some of it on the news, looked pretty rough.
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Thanks. Doing fine. I'm 130 miles inland, not too bad.

Often just pulling the connections apart and putting them back together will clean it up enough. But, the more you can clean, the better.
 
iScamp said:
Thanks. Doing fine. I'm 130 miles inland, not too bad.

Often just pulling the connections apart and putting them back together will clean it up enough. But, the more you can clean, the better.
Click to expand...
just noticed I had pushed a couple of the females for the packard clip into the mounting unit. I will now take each one out and clean them good, then I can make sure they are all locked into the bulkhead unit before putting back together. this will take a while.
 
oldmusclelover said:
thanks for the info Brian, can you expand on that? as in a 'how to'? thanks for the input
Click to expand...

Just disconnect the battery and do a resistance check on all your grounds, One end of you test meter lead to the battery neg cable then check every thing that should be grounded, Block, Alt case, ect.
You should have about .5 ohms or less.
 
brian6pac said:
Just disconnect the battery and do a resistance check on all your grounds, One end of you test meter lead to the battery neg cable then check every thing that should be grounded, Block, Alt case, ect.
You should have about .5 ohms or less.
Click to expand...
yes Brian, thank you. I have cleaned everything and still had bad readings to the block/firewall until I was told to put a ground wire on the alternator itself. with that added, I am at zero on all, so my ground side seems to be good, correct?
 
iScamp said:
Test light is a little easier to work with than meter probe ends. No chance of frying your meter, either.

No, it won't give you a high reading. But, all you're looking for is a bright light.
Probe the battery posts, note the brightness of the light. Probe F1 and F2 and note if the brightness is about the same. Same brightness or so, means the regulator is trying to apply a charge but there is an alternator problem.
Click to expand...
OK iScamp, here's the readings:
battery at start 12.50
F1 (blue wire) 11.11
F2 I get nothing by connecting the F1 and F2 with a test light (tested/working), while running at idle.
ohm reading on F2 was zero (new wires and connectors).

now, I also did a couple other checks. from the regulator base to negative battery terminal at 1500 rpms 4.2, and with a load 8.1
also at 1500 rpms, 13.37 showing from the negative battery terminal to the run side of ballast resistor.
what do you think?
oh, cleaned the ignition switch spades and connectors (best I could under the dash), and I only fixed the 3 wires on the interior side of the bulkhead, as they were pretty clean from my brush cleaning.
 
Battery to block should be good first, if not fix that then block to body if not good fix that, alt to head should be good through the bolts, if you had to ground the alt case to fix everything else you still have a problem and you just put a band aid on it
 
brian6pac said:
Battery to block should be good first, if not fix that then block to body if not good fix that, alt to head should be good through the bolts, if you had to ground the alt case to fix everything else you still have a problem and you just put a band aid on it
Click to expand...
before putting the ground wire on the alternator, I was zero from battery to block, lost it at block to frame and to firewall. I think (gets me in trouble) that the alternator was not grounded and causing a short, or shorted with my load test. now the only thing I can thing of is, there is one spacer on the alternator that is really hard steel. don't think stainless, but not sure what it is, very hard to a file. maybe that didn't get a good ground, but shouldn't the bolt have grounded on the alt case and into the head?
 
oldmusclelover said:
before putting the ground wire on the alternator, I was zero from battery to block, lost it at block to frame and to firewall. I think (gets me in trouble) that the alternator was not grounded and causing a short, or shorted with my load test. now the only thing I can thing of is, there is one spacer on the alternator that is really hard steel. don't think stainless, but not sure what it is, very hard to a file. maybe that didn't get a good ground, but shouldn't the bolt have grounded on the alt case and into the head?
Click to expand...

I would think the bolt should ground it for sure, clean threads? Why can't you get a ground from the block to body ?
 
brian6pac said:
I would think the bolt should ground it for sure, clean threads? Why can't you get a ground from the block to body ?
Click to expand...
yes, the threads are clean, the washer is clean, everything is clean. good grounds from batt to block, block to frame (both 2/0), and thought good ground from block to firewall. question: if I had already fried my alternator, would that be the cause of the ground going bad to the frame and firewall? did you look at the numbers above that I just tested? somewhere I am getting a voltage drop. just tested again on the ballast because I have run the battery down by running, and the test showed batt-12.12, and with key in run position 11.14 at ballast (run side).
 
oldmusclelover said:
yes, the threads are clean, the washer is clean, everything is clean. good grounds from batt to block, block to frame (both 2/0), and thought good ground from block to firewall. question: if I had already fried my alternator, would that be the cause of the ground going bad to the frame and firewall? did you look at the numbers above that I just tested? somewhere I am getting a voltage drop. just tested again on the ballast because I have run the battery down by running, and the test showed batt-12.12, and with key in run position 11.14 at ballast (run side).
Click to expand...


The only thing you can fry on your alt is the diode, a easy test is to check your a/c voltage, put your volt meter on a/c volts put it on the battery and see if it reads a/c volts, should be 0
 
oldmusclelover said:
yes, the threads are clean, the washer is clean, everything is clean. good grounds from batt to block, block to frame (both 2/0), and thought good ground from block to firewall. question: if I had already fried my alternator, would that be the cause of the ground going bad to the frame and firewall? did you look at the numbers above that I just tested? somewhere I am getting a voltage drop. just tested again on the ballast because I have run the battery down by running, and the test showed batt-12.12, and with key in run position 11.14 at ballast (run side).
Click to expand...

Even a bad alt should make no differences in the grounds
 
oldmusclelover said:
OK iScamp, here's the readings:
battery at start 12.50
F1 (blue wire) 11.11 That's o.k. You are getting supply voltage from the VR.
F2 I get nothing by connecting the F1 and F2 with a test light (tested/working), while running at idle.
One end of the test light in the blue wire, F1. The other end in the other wire, F2, and no light? Then no ground circuit to the VR or bad VR.
ohm reading on F2 was zero (new wires and connectors). ZERO or open circuit? Because if it was zero, your test light should have lit up.

now, I also did a couple other checks. from the regulator base to negative battery terminal at 1500 rpms 4.2, and with a load 8.1 Regulator base, that's the case or body of the VR? Because 8 ohms would be bad.
also at 1500 rpms, 13.37 showing from the negative battery terminal to the run side of ballast resistor.
what do you think? That sounds o.k.
oh, cleaned the ignition switch spades and connectors (best I could under the dash), and I only fixed the 3 wires on the interior side of the bulkhead, as they were pretty clean from my brush cleaning.
Click to expand...

Take the alternator completely off the engine. Clean all the bolts/threads/ holes. A steel bushing is normal, shouldn't be a problem. Is the bushing or alternator painted?
 
brian6pac said:
Even a bad alt should make no differences in the grounds
Click to expand...
something is really wreaking havoc on my mind. just checked again and had 13.72 at the battery and 14.02 at the alt post, BUT.....with that, I am now showing 8.3V at neg batt to block, 10.3V at block to frame, and 4.4V at block to firewall. very frustrating
 
iScamp said:
Take the alternator completely off the engine. Clean all the bolts/threads/ holes. A steel bushing is normal, shouldn't be a problem. Is the bushing or alternator painted?
Click to expand...
negative, and I have taken a mill file to the block, it's clean. I will take it off and clean again.
 
here's the readings:
battery at start 12.50
F1 (blue wire) 11.11 That's o.k. You are getting supply voltage from the VR.
F2 I get nothing by connecting the F1 and F2 with a test light (tested/working), while running at idle.
One end of the test light in the blue wire, F1. The other end in the other wire, F2, and no light? Then no ground circuit to the VR or bad VR.
ohm reading on F2 was zero (new wires and connectors). ZERO or open circuit? Because if it was zero, your test light should have lit up.

now, I also did a couple other checks. from the regulator base to negative battery terminal at 1500 rpms 4.2, and with a load 8.1 Regulator base, that's the case or body of the VR? Because 8 ohms would be bad.
also at 1500 rpms, 13.37 showing from the negative battery terminal to the run side of ballast resistor.
what do you think? That sounds o.k.
oh, cleaned the ignition switch spades and connectors (best I could under the dash), and I only fixed the 3 wires on the interior side of the bulkhead, as they were pretty clean from my brush cleaning.[/QUOTE]
 
oldmusclelover said:
something is really wreaking havoc on my mind. just checked again and had 13.72 at the battery and 14.02 at the alt post, BUT.....with that, I am now showing 8.3V at neg batt to block, 10.3V at block to frame, and 4.4V at block to firewall. very frustrating
Click to expand...

14.02v alternator output is right on the money. 13.72v at battery post is o.k. .3 volt drop is nothing harmful.
 
brian6pac said:
The only thing you can fry on your alt is the diode, a easy test is to check your a/c voltage, put your volt meter on a/c volts put it on the battery and see if it reads a/c volts, should be 0
Click to expand...
hooked the alt back up real quick to do this test, and it wouldn't stop on any given number. it read 33, 13, 5, 2, 33, 13, 5, 2, 33 etc in repetition. this was with engine not running Brian, is that right?
 
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