I don't like the added height.
Stop in for a cup of coffee
- Thread starter toolmanmike
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My point exactly. Finding the best cam to work with a stock converter in a 318.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
If they're not broken...
As far as what they are, you can collect all the info needed by measurement to decide what to change.
Lets say the car sits at the height you like. By measuring the rear weight, the spring rate, and free arch, you can get back to that same hieght with a different set of springs.
Lets say with the tires you have, on launch you can feel the axle wind up the spring instread of lifting the car. Then a stronger front half and maybe some better 'anti-squat' is needed. A slight change to pinion angle and maybe arch or front spring eye position. There's a few approaches there - after making or getting the leaf pack strong enough.
That's just a couple of examples.
Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
More information. The Sway-away 1.08” torsion bars have a calculated spring rate of 235 lbs/in.
Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
C’mon Matt, build the suspension based on the design requirements...what do you recommend?
To be honest, this is my first attempt at a performance handling build. I think you guys figured that out
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Because its really hard to hit those requirements in any situation. Each car is different, and what may satisfy one person may not another. My buddy Dave says, change the tires and start suspension tuning all over. He's right. Tires are a huge variable. Even though this is in reference to competition needs, the concept still is valid for street use. The difference is there's more leeway. I think anything in the 130 -160 #/in range is going to be ballpark correct. The rest I feel is going to be up to Tim, how he actually finds himself using it and how it performs (or not) to his expectations.
Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
I distilled what you said (minus all the CYA caveats) and it lands exactly where I recommended with the 002/003 SS rear springs that have a spring rate of 135 lbs/in. Add the Bilstein shocks that provide the best compromise between track and street...and it’s exactly what I recommended.
This really isn’t hard to do. Define the requirements and make a best first recommendation to try to get it right the first time. Sure, Tim may decide to modify and optimize later...but he needs to start somewhere solid first and not break the bank in the long run.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Well I was trying to compare it to my car and some others I know well. The factory shipped weights for Barracudas shows 'verts were about 100 l bs more than a comparable notchback. (and 50 lbs more than a fastback). I found the 1.03" bars, 1.25" front sway bar and the 180 lb/in rear springs made the car feel a little too loose at high speed interstate. Switching to 1.09 bars and flatter 200 "/lb leafs the car is more neutral. Also the better leafs meant I could dispense with the pinion snubber.
Using the neutral line chart I made, it seems like Tims car would be balanced with rear leafs in the 130 to 160 lb/in range. (That's with no rear sway bar. ) The tricky part is getting good drag strip type launches. I assume it has a ton of torque - so then its down to the tire grip and weight transfer. Is there enough grip that we need the car to rise so weight gets transfered back onto the rear tires?
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Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
All of that is why I recommended the SS springs.
These are the tires. Yokohama Tire Corporation in a 245 50 R17 size with a 8 inch wide wheel.
Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
Yes, I know already...good street traction for launch and better traction for rolling heavy acceleration. Not drag quality, but plenty good enough on the street to need rear suspension compensation. Not enough to need pinion snubber adjustment to compensate.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
The orignal 002/003 springswere 160 #/in (according to the Chassis Book) which is what I thought yours were, and it says the 'new' Superstock springs were either 125 #/in or 160. If they say yours are 135, then that's probably what they are.
What I don't know is where the initial priority is. I have confidence the biased 002/003 set will be good for getting the power down. They're a great way to get the weight transfered and to help the car rise. I don't know how it will be for left/right. The examples I know of using SS springs successfully involved dearching (Green Brick - One lap of America) or lots of rear weight (Beckman's Rally 'cuda with a 30 gal fuel cell plus spare equipment). With the Green Brick, they decided after the first succesful year that they would have been better off with two rights dearched. I'm not sure if they followed through. The 1996 article only says they used dearched springs and a horizontal 'quadrashock' to further resist axle windup.
I'm pretty sure Ralph is using two rights. That would be from the horses mouth. I don't think there's any magazine writeups with the details.
What I don't know is where the initial priority is. I have confidence the biased 002/003 set will be good for getting the power down. They're a great way to get the weight transfered and to help the car rise. I don't know how it will be for left/right. The examples I know of using SS springs successfully involved dearching (Green Brick - One lap of America) or lots of rear weight (Beckman's Rally 'cuda with a 30 gal fuel cell plus spare equipment). With the Green Brick, they decided after the first succesful year that they would have been better off with two rights dearched. I'm not sure if they followed through. The 1996 article only says they used dearched springs and a horizontal 'quadrashock' to further resist axle windup.
I'm pretty sure Ralph is using two rights. That would be from the horses mouth. I don't think there's any magazine writeups with the details.
Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
In other news...
The Pizza place ran out of the normal x-large original crust pizza we usually order and offered 2 medium pies instead for $5 less. Works for me!
The Pizza place ran out of the normal x-large original crust pizza we usually order and offered 2 medium pies instead for $5 less. Works for me!
Looks yummy!!!
Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
Believe whomever you choose. I’ve made my recommendation and stand by it. I’m not saying another word on the subject.
And thank you for your help. Really. I do trust what you and Matt have said to be the truth. You are both smarter in this subject then I. I just don't need to re spend any more money! SS springs it is.
zkx14
Duster De-ruster
how do you run out of a size of pizza? I'm guessing they ran out of big boxes...
zkx14
Duster De-ruster
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
I'm not a fan of lowering blocks. Last resort in my book. Raise the front spring eye is generally better IMO.
My suggestions are:
A.I'd see if what is on there works. Could be a pretty good spring on there now, if the PO was any degree serious. Could be 130 lb/in or more.
Clues:
If the second leaf comes all the way to the spring eye.
Thick main leaf.
Good tight clamps on the front half.
5 or 6 leaf Chrysler design.
Main leaf is fairly flat, no more than a very slight negative arch anywhere.
B. Try the SS springs. Either biased set or a pair of rights. Dearch locally as needed so they are fairly flat.
Raise spring eye if needed/wanted.
My suggestions are:
A.I'd see if what is on there works. Could be a pretty good spring on there now, if the PO was any degree serious. Could be 130 lb/in or more.
Clues:
If the second leaf comes all the way to the spring eye.
Thick main leaf.
Good tight clamps on the front half.
5 or 6 leaf Chrysler design.
Main leaf is fairly flat, no more than a very slight negative arch anywhere.
B. Try the SS springs. Either biased set or a pair of rights. Dearch locally as needed so they are fairly flat.
Raise spring eye if needed/wanted.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Hey I still haven't had a chance to respoind to your suggestion....
Ddaddy
Just doing what I do
They premake the dough earlier in the day and set it to rise in the various pan sizes. This isn’t the first time they miscalculated and ran out of a certain size and style of crust. It doesn’t happen often, but occasionally it does. I could have gotten the XL in a thin crust, but I’m not a fan of it. It’s too thin and too crisp. I want a pizza, not a cracker with toppings.
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